This is definitely an interesting idea that is worth exploring. +1

I really like the idea of progression on this "train" across a planet and maybe even from system to system. It would help give players an idea of how the different areas in New Eden are connected together.

I like it a lot.

Although, can I add in a suggestion?

How about instead of returning to the warbarge waiting to proceed to the next case (ie: case 1 to case 2) how about introduce a dynamic redline just as what was once featured in Skirmish 1.0 in closed beta (Replication Build)?

Case 1: Ambush-like redline which is small and constricted as usual.
Case 2: Ambush-OMS redline which is still small but more expanded to accommodate the installations.
Case 3: Redline in Ambush OMS will expand outward to the nearest outpost to include the objectives.
Case 4: Redline in Skirmish expands further to include a final objective to fight over.

Note: Just like Skirmish 1.0, the default spawns move closer to the objectives with each case and the MCC slowly moves in.

Not bad, Not bad!

A few tweaks/suggestions if I may?
I like the train idea but not necessarily the match types! If you want to make it feel more inclusive try

1) skirmish 1.0 (renamed "ground war") Enemy has to move mcc succesfully to point for win condition
2) standard skirmish, they are approaching the district null cannon
3) domination

If you really want you could add an ambush in their somewhere.

Also to make it a little fairer on the defenders, if at any point during stages 1 + 2 the attackers mcc is destroyed, they loose period!

+0.5

Well the biggest flaw in the OP plan is using Ambush and Ambush OMS lol Domination I could deal with but not any form of Ambush. In my opinion they are not objective based game modes and have no place in Dus...I mean Faction Warfare.

Love the multi-stage idea (a lot like Killzone Warzone which is the best FPS mode ever IMO). Just need some new modes for it. Some kind of Breach mode combined with a Demolition type mode would be ideal.

I dream of the day a corporation can attack a District and move through a couple of stages of defense...hack and capture a space elevator and take that baby to the top...fight our way through a space station....overload the reactor and set it to blow...steal a ship....and then escape back to the planet.

Can you deal with that?!

The only problem I see with this set-up is the time involved. IT could take hours and hours to finish a set of matches....OR days if that's what separates the battles. I would stick with just 3 total battles as opposed to 4. Otherwise great concept, but I would still prefer skirmish 1.0....which apparently won't ever happen again cause its "old tech"

Aero, I think that may, more than likely be true, yet the possibility still remains. If you have several teams of highly motivated crews participating in the contest for the district it could possibly go for hours, i.e., Hamburger Hill moments that turn into ULTRA-meat grinders.

Keep in mind that, though many players may become disenfranchised in a district due to consistent red-lining, you may get a number of people that will become stubborn and tough it out to the bitter end.

What I would like to see implemented with this style of persistence is the ability to not only target a planet or jump into a targeted district that is chosen for us by the Battlefinder and Scotty, rather having Players be more of an active and determining component in the strategic process of designing the battle plan and implementing the invasion.

This would allow for the expansion of these ideas to allow a multi-concerted attack (i.e., hitting several districts at once). EX: district 5 is a production facility along with district 8 (all part of a 12 district planet). Initiating the attack on both would make more sense. But for those pushes to work, it would also make sense to initiate ambushes on Districts 3, 2, 9, &10 since they are all storage facilities. This would spread the forces holding the planet thinly, making the effort on the two production facilities easier and less organized on the side of the defenders.

The attacks on the storage facilities don't have to actually win, they just have to dwindle down the the clone counts and work as a distraction, on that is large enough and successful enough that it divert energy and resources to it.

Again, a meta-game approach to FW.

Aero, by far one of the better discussion I have had the recent pleasure of being involved with on here in a long while. Thanks.

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we have been reading this thread and staying on top of it. The discussion is really very good. Right now though we are focused on getting the current iteration of factional contracts out the door, iterating on it after launch, and then a laundry list of other things we need to get done.

We have been have serious discussion internally however about how we slow down the flipping of districts and this thread along with what you guys have been talking about has come up often. So please keep the discussion going and I apologize for the lack of dev response, as I said we are just trying to stay focused on our current goals. :)

appreciate the acknowledgement, nice to know the idea has been noticed

As a matter of interest, do you have any idea how technically difficult/easy such a system of play would be to instigate in-game?

I do like the idea of potentially using War Barges in FW as well to direct fights. It seems like a good fit, but at the same time I wouldn't want to outright limit the other things that may be possible as well (spending LP, etc.).

If the Defenders are Red Lining the attackers, then a District Battle could be over in 1 match. If the attackers are Red Lining the defenders, then the Battle will be over in 4 or 5 matches.

For a District Battle to go on for a full Day, both teams would have to be very evenly matched. Think about that. Any battle that went on for that long would be EPIC!!!

What about the possibility of people taking advantage of this - like two factions decide to win one round and lose the next - if the prizes are cumulative, they could use this to their advantage and get a crap ton of salvage..

And what if the rounds never end - if one side wins round 2, but then loses round 3 and repeat ad infinitum..

Some cool *initial* ideas but need fleshing out - which is why we're here.

Not trolling - just my opinions.

been thinking about this. How about if each district had several "support mission". Vehicle free 6 man infiltrations to other smaller areas of a district to a target defended by a small 6 man team. For example the target could be a CRU and controlling it would reduce available clone reinforcement in the main district battle. I'm sure there would be a whole load of viable side mission ideas that would work then give tangible advantages to the progress of the battle as a whole. The support mission are available for each match but if not filled then so be it no problem, but if small teams do fill them then off they go. If it is too difficult to apply bonuses to main battle in real time then maybe they can set improved conditions for the next rouind

That's actually a pretty good idea. So basically there is a very large clone count at first that is representative of how long it should take to capture or defend the single district through these multiple battles, and then number gets stored and carried from match to match until a new attack on a new district begins.

Something else with respect to these progressions: If you lose, do you just get knocked back to the previous step? I like Fox Gaden's thematic progression, but say you establish a base with an Ambush OMS game, but you lose the subsequent Domination match to shut down the defense systems. Do you then play another Ambush OMS, or do you play another Domination where you're defending your base from being shut down? The progression might look more like one of those old Wing Commander storyline maps rather than a straight line. Just a thought.

Fox I am liking where that idea is going. If you start out an Ambush match with both a 15 minute timer for the defenders to clone the attackers and the attackers having the equivalent of 8 full squad complements of clones (which turns out to be 48 clones, so the current number of 50 is a good base) and the objective to either last till the timer runs out or they, themselves, take over one of the defender's CRU's, eliminate the defending troop element, or push past a certain geographic marker with minimal contact to place a beacon for the friendly force's CRU, that could be a good beach head assault.

But then the question comes in whether or not the vehicles (specifically I am thinking of an air assault operation using multiple dropships, which would work better in skirmish 1.0 - ground war) should be allowed and what are we to do about the redline? Personally I think the redline in FW should be removed and some lateral movement should be allowed for the sake of simulating a more accurate and functional military operation. But this brings to question; what is the purpose of this particular beachhead assault? Is it to harass the enemy into shifting their forces to open gaps in other districts, is it an attempt at logistical disruption, or is it blitzkrieg? If it is the last, why would it start in assault, when en-mass zergs would throw everything they have at the enemy?

This seems to point towards strategic operational planning which means the player should have a functional and accurate map int he war barge. Without a basic understanding of the terrain of the district, mind you no the exact placement of installations rather the sockets and buildings, would allow for the commanders of the ground operation to choose between a couple of modes per-say: hit&run harassment, logistical disruption (sabotage), or full-scale military operational push (i.e., taking the district). This I feel would add to the complexity of the meta game.

Why not simply have a rush style game called Beach head.... Ground war could be the escorting of the MCC when it gets locked to the district, to the main combat zone, then Skirmish, we the combat over the outlying points is fought, and then to domination where the central command structure of the district is fought over.

Not fan of the idea as it's using game modes that are broken. I'd rather see a brand new staged game mode being developped to have longer battles with a real feeling of "conquest". WHy ? because Dust desperately needs such a game mode. And because such a pattern of different rounds for the same battle, with difference game modes poses the issues of going from lobby to lobby, server to server, etc..

I'd rather have one game mode that lasts around 30-40 minutes with fail safe in case of major redlining\crushing.

Individual matches in dust are quite short when you think of it. If they seem long it's only due to most games being boring out of lack of activity \ enemy dropping the ball.

Overall, i'd love to know what makes you so sure people dont want longer matches as in longer action packed fights. On the contrary, i tend to think there is a tremendous wait for a bigger game mode, with larger player count, and a more attack\defense feel.

You know... That conquest game mode we hear about now and then since the last 2 years.

Bottom line. I wouldnt want to play more FW if i had to be forced to play an ambush game mode, then an OMS , then a skirmish and then a domination. In the end, such a process would probably take 1 hour and a half. And i'm being gentle with all the loadings, lobbies, server starting that would require.

I'd rather see a game mode that lasts 30+ minutes in general. that features a real conquest feeling with different stage (defense relay to multi hack, unlocks access to the main outpost, hack central mainframe, game over.) with several fail safe (defense relay not took after 15 minutes = loss / tickets exhausted = Loss).

With installations dropping etc. Oh but Wait... Aint that skirmish 1.0 with minor changes ? Could it be the answer was here all along ?

Or let's be totally crazy. Why not a game mode that lasts VERY long. Something you could jump in and out when you want knowing the fight will keep on going. People would still benefit from participating without seeing the end (time relative ISK and SP). That would feel like conquest ! You could be sending message during the fight to get people you know because a squad had to leave the fight.

The longer the game also, the better the chance to see Capsuleers jump in and provide orbital strikes as the event will have more visibility in EVE where the moment to moment gameplay is very much slower.

15 minutes is not near long enough for most eve pilots to get to the district unless you have extended warbarge time between battles. You likely would not even get a orbital strike in....which we don't have metrics yet for exactly "how long" the beacon has to be held to earn one.

This - PvP players will be happy to do this - the fight won't just happen in orbit - they will happen at stations in the hot system, they will happen at stargates leading into the hot system - you just have to look at the very patient pirates in Eve to gatecamp for hours to know they have the patience for it, and that is when there is no promise of reward. Add to that LP for those pilots that is guaranteed on top of the potential for loot drops, and you have a very dynamic and attractive mix for different kinds of PvP pilots in Eve from pirates to null sec to FW, to the casual PvPer. This can work, I can virtually promise you it will.

Unrelated note - Fox Gaden please ask your CEO to respond to the email about Legacy Rising :)