DUST Search - Sincere Question: Why put so much emphasis on Public Contracts?

Aero Yassavi wrote:

Bethhy wrote:

Most people fall in love with the concept of DUST... seriously who as a gamer wouldn't? I Would love all the content to be directed at the vet's... but it just isn't good for the product.

How would my suggestion gear anything towards vets and not the new guys? I know that's not necessarily the point you are making, but just wanted to point it out anyways.

To the new player, it would be exactly the same as it is now. They are searching for their favorite game mode then getting placed on a team within 10 seconds and can begin playing. Nothing changes for them. However, for the people who care about the fiction of Dust, you are not fighting for all these controversial corporations without a say in the matter is it would instead be viewed as a recruiting field of sorts. And for the people who care about the MMO part of Dust, they'd be able to spectate matches and place bets with others and such. It wouldn't take anything away from the new player's experience, and if anything it'd only add to it by the new player knowing that even his random instant battle holds a little bit of meaning.

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Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2923	Posted - 2013.10.20 16:42:00 - [1] - Quote Watching through the Dust presentation at EVE Vegas, I see on one of the slides you guys put "Make Faction Warfare something you can do also, not replace public contracts." However, earlier in the presentation you said the focus was going to be putting more MMO in the MMO FPS. So, why then put so much emphasis on preserving the one mode that has nothing to do with the MMO, that has no impact on the universe, that is the very definition of a lobby shooter? I can see the potential argument that you still want a place for new players to get the hang of things, but surely there are ways to create new experiences and such that can quickly get them into battles such as public contracts do, but with some blend of the MMO, even if it's smaller than the FW blend. Doesn't make too much sense to keep pushing this game mode where you are forced to fight for these random contractors with no say in the matter and the outcome doesn't even mean anything. Even if it's a simple rebranding of public contracts, that would be cool. From the perspective of the lore and the MMO, it again just doesn't make any sense that we get shuttled to fight for all these corporations without any say and where the outcome doesn't mean anything. But one solution could be rebranding it to a sort of "sport" so to speak, sort of like what you brought up at Fan Fest 2012, where we are not fighting for corporations with no say but rather fighting for our own reputation as a fighter. Then let other Dust players and EVE players spectate these and place bets and such. You'd still have battles that are quick and easy to get into like public contracts, the lore would make more sense and not force you to fight for certain corporations with no say in the matter, there would be no direct impact because in lore it's in a controlled environment for sport, and there'd be a bit of the MMO with letting people place bets or corporation recruiters spectate these matches looking for the top soldiers.
Robert JD Niewiadomski NULLIMPEX INC 627	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:08:00 - [2] - Quote The very first type of contracts new players are going to participate in are pubs... Make them have excelent experience to keep them playing and get interested in/hooked to New Eden. Is that not what matters? Vets are going to have they playgrounds improved too. So they said...
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1510	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:21:00 - [3] - Quote It's only a few steps from the public contracts we have now to contracts that are... Well, contracts. Eventually the battle finder should be removed, and replaced with a contract board. This will list corporate and factional contracts as usual, but public battles will be replaced with a list. Sort of like the squad finder, where players choose which games to join from the dozens available. The incentive to choose comes from the listing of ISK rewards on every contract, and a warning can come in the form of a Risk vs. Reward scale. Also, we need public contracts as they are where we gain ISK. I'll admit currently it's just a poorly disguised version of the lobby system most FPSs out there if not all use, but hopefully that'll change. I doubt we should just let them go though.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2927	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:21:00 - [4] - Quote Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote: The very first type of contracts new players are going to participate in are pubs... Make them have excelent experience to keep them playing and get interested in/hooked to New Eden. Is that not what matters? Vets are going to have they playgrounds improved too. So they said... And what better way to make their first experience truly unique than to incorporate it more within the MMO? My suggestion would make it just as fast and easy to get into. The real reason this needs to change though is because CCP is pushing for even the vets to still play the pubs, and in that case the pubs need to be more intertwined with the MMO.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2927	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:23:00 - [5] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: It's only a few steps from the public contracts we have now to contracts that are... Well, contracts. Eventually the battle finder should be removed, and replaced with a contract board. This will list corporate and factional contracts as usual, but public battles will be replaced with a list. Sort of like the squad finder, where players choose which games to join from the dozens available. The incentive to choose comes from the listing of ISK rewards on every contract, and a warning can come in the form of a Risk vs. Reward scale. Also, we need public contracts as they are where we gain ISK. I'll admit currently it's just a poorly disguised version of the lobby system most FPSs out there if not all use, but hopefully that'll change. I doubt we should just let them go though. Agree with all but the last two sentences. Yes we still need public contracts to get into a battle quick and easy, but there is no reason why they couldn't rebrand that a little as I suggested so it is more connected to the grand scale of things, even if just a little.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3389	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:36:00 - [6] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: It's only a few steps from the public contracts we have now to contracts that are... Well, contracts. Eventually the battle finder should be removed, and replaced with a contract board. This will list corporate and factional contracts as usual, but public battles will be replaced with a list. Sort of like the squad finder, where players choose which games to join from the dozens available. The incentive to choose comes from the listing of ISK rewards on every contract, and a warning can come in the form of a Risk vs. Reward scale. Also, we need public contracts as they are where we gain ISK. I'll admit currently it's just a poorly disguised version of the lobby system most FPSs out there if not all use, but hopefully that'll change. I doubt we should just let them go though. Agree with all but the last two sentences. Yes we still need public contracts to get into a battle quick and easy, but there is no reason why they couldn't rebrand that a little as I suggested so it is more connected to the grand scale of things, even if just a little. I can understand not wanting to fight in Public Contracts. From and MMO sense there are simply people I do not want to help, nor does it make sense for me to be employed by them, if public contracts are the only way to make money its means I am then being forced once again by CCP out of the so called sandbox and into the yellow bucket where I have either got to give up and do what they tell me to ( A ******* GAIN , I am damn sick of having to spend SP in skills and such I don't want with no respec on the horizon just to keep myself entertained because the roles I want to play are not present). They are essentially taking away one of my reasons for being a mercenary. The choice to vet my contracts. Even as a merciless immortal scumbag I do have standards.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2927	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:40:00 - [7] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Even as a merciless immortal scumbag I do have standards. Expect to see this quoted many times in the future.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1511	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:40:00 - [8] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: It's only a few steps from the public contracts we have now to contracts that are... Well, contracts. Eventually the battle finder should be removed, and replaced with a contract board. This will list corporate and factional contracts as usual, but public battles will be replaced with a list. Sort of like the squad finder, where players choose which games to join from the dozens available. The incentive to choose comes from the listing of ISK rewards on every contract, and a warning can come in the form of a Risk vs. Reward scale. Also, we need public contracts as they are where we gain ISK. I'll admit currently it's just a poorly disguised version of the lobby system most FPSs out there if not all use, but hopefully that'll change. I doubt we should just let them go though. Agree with all but the last two sentences. Yes we still need public contracts to get into a battle quick and easy, but there is no reason why they couldn't rebrand that a little as I suggested so it is more connected to the grand scale of things, even if just a little. Don't know if it should become only a kind of blood sport though. I certainly don't feel like Ratchet and Clank when I'm roaming the map killing things. Although that could be an option on a contract board in addition to what I have below: I was thinking along the lines of there being a short summary of why we should join a battle being included before selecting the battle: something like X corporation requesting mercenaries to escort valuable cargo on the planet -name-, district -number-. Reward will be distributed upon successful completion. And Y corporation requires mercenaries to sabotage cargo being transported by corporation X on planet... Etc. 20% of reward distributed upon joining and 50% more if cargo is destroyed, and full reward if cargo is stolen and returned.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2927	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:47:00 - [9] - Quote Now that works too, but making it something you have to choose means it won't be as fast as instant battles, but it could still work maybe. Also your suggestion still doesn't really provide a link to the MMO aspect.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3390	Posted - 2013.10.20 23:00:00 - [10] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Now that works too, but making it something you have to choose means it won't be as fast as instant battles, but it could still work maybe. Also your suggestion still doesn't really provide a link to the MMO aspect. Instant battle = boring. Vyzion Eyri the visionary..... see what I did there...?

Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1512	Posted - 2013.10.20 23:14:00 - [11] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Now that works too, but making it something you have to choose means it won't be as fast as instant battles, but it could still work maybe. Also your suggestion still doesn't really provide a link to the MMO aspect. Instant battle = boring. Vyzion Eyri the visionary..... see what I did there...? The most well hidden things are always in plain sight. And @Yassavi, I was hoping MMO came in with free roaming (which apparently was mentioned at EVE Vegas), mercenary interactions (which don't involve plasma and biomass), PvE, 32v32 (and 64v64 although that's probably SOONGäó), battles like Planetside which last for hours, etc. Although it's interesting how you've noticed that essentially it could be easy to make DUST have MMO elements through that connection with betting on us in EVE. Never saw it like that.
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 832	Posted - 2013.10.21 00:30:00 - [12] - Quote Some people just want to sit back and have a laid back match. Not everyone wants to be pressured to win a match so that their faction of choice gets/defends a district.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3400	Posted - 2013.10.21 00:44:00 - [13] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Some people just want to sit back and have a laid back match. Not everyone wants to be pressured to win a match so that their faction of choice gets/defends a district. Then they should run the public contracts and leave the real work to those who care.
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 834	Posted - 2013.10.21 00:45:00 - [14] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Some people just want to sit back and have a laid back match. Not everyone wants to be pressured to win a match so that their faction of choice gets/defends a district. Then they should run the public contracts and leave the real work to those who care. I was answering the OP's question.....
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3404	Posted - 2013.10.21 01:08:00 - [15] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Some people just want to sit back and have a laid back match. Not everyone wants to be pressured to win a match so that their faction of choice gets/defends a district. Then they should run the public contracts and leave the real work to those who care. I was answering the OP's question..... Ugh I hate saying this ....but casuals are what is ruining the Souls series, they may also be the bane of this game.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2013.10.22 16:42:00 - [16] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Patrick57 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Some people just want to sit back and have a laid back match. Not everyone wants to be pressured to win a match so that their faction of choice gets/defends a district. Then they should run the public contracts and leave the real work to those who care. I was answering the OP's question..... Ugh I hate saying this ....but casuals are what is ruining the Souls series, they may also be the bane of this game. I quoted both your responses, because I think you are actually BOTH right (...except the opinion about "casuals" in a game. It's too early to tell for Dust, and I think the "type of player" their video game should serve is still a hot topic for developers). If the game is supposed to be an MMO, then it would be shooting your game in the knee with a scrambler rifle if you try to limit a "MASS MULTIPLAYER" audience to just the admirable players who want to get with the program and work hard towards a long team campaign. I think if you DID try it, your multiplayer audience won't ever become MASS in size, not even by optomistic cult fan game terms. Video games originally started as non-pressure, laid-back activities (OMG, remember Atari, and Pong?)---today's "games" can be SO obscessed with "emersing and transporting the player", that it's getting hard to accept that many of us STILL access a video game for a casual laugh, eye-hand-puzzling, and some kicking back, that's all. I love that Dust is stepping into its deeper New Eden realm, but I always hope this game and other games leave a healthy section for Casuals. Hey, sometimes people are classifyable as one or the other... sometimes odd eggs like me swap Diehard to Casual and back again during a year, so... But the Public Contracts section serves in at least three other ways too, doesn't it?: ---The classic Lobby Shooter players who just want to trade their CoD NP5 in a HumV for a SciFi Mass Driver and a HAV for a while. ---The Entry-level player who is just wants to demo the game (and honestly needs more than some typical 'demo' download to even BEGIN to grasp how to play this game and decide if you want to be a Newberry). ---The advanced player who wisely picks the Public Contracts to test-bed her new fittings/modules. (Since Dust is ALWAYS about risking money loss, the Public Contracts allow you to risk only yourself as the guinea pig, without your experiments harming or causing setbacks for someone's real campaign or district ). I hope these are reasons enough to want to keep an Instant Battle/Pup Contract playroom that's disconnected from The Real Deal.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 211	Posted - 2013.10.22 16:55:00 - [17] - Quote Most people fall in love with the concept of DUST... seriously who as a gamer wouldn't? I Would love all the content to be directed at the vet's... but it just isn't good for the product. When you watch most people's first gameplay and starting of DUST 514... the main thing that get's them excited is the concept of DUST and EVE. The main thing that grabs your attention as you start DUST is really how little your battles have an impact on the galaxy, and really how little of a link there is with what's going on in EVE and what's going on in DUST. The best way to improves players feel of worth in DUST is to give them an entire mechanic to venture into and get reward's where it isn't completely reliant on SP values or elite skill status. As an EVE player... FW is kinda... well funny? The negatives associated with running FW is fare greater then the benefits, so it's treated as such for importance in EVE. which is sad for someone coming to term's with relevancy in what they have done in DUST when possibly getting into the EVE side of gaming. But as far as a player feeling his battle are worth something that is key to DUST. The bubblegum shooters offer nothing for incentive to victories other then an arbitrary number to measure your Epeen versus others. FW will actually give a FPS player an immersive experience where the battles won and lost have a real time consequence. And that should always be the focus of the developers for the longevity of DUST.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3006	Posted - 2013.10.22 17:01:00 - [18] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Most people fall in love with the concept of DUST... seriously who as a gamer wouldn't? I Would love all the content to be directed at the vet's... but it just isn't good for the product. How would my suggestion gear anything towards vets and not the new guys? I know that's not necessarily the point you are making, but just wanted to point it out anyways. To the new player, it would be exactly the same as it is now. They are searching for their favorite game mode then getting placed on a team within 10 seconds and can begin playing. Nothing changes for them. However, for the people who care about the fiction of Dust, you are not fighting for all these controversial corporations without a say in the matter is it would instead be viewed as a recruiting field of sorts. And for the people who care about the MMO part of Dust, they'd be able to spectate matches and place bets with others and such. It wouldn't take anything away from the new player's experience, and if anything it'd only add to it by the new player knowing that even his random instant battle holds a little bit of meaning.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 211	Posted - 2013.10.22 17:36:00 - [19] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Bethhy wrote: Most people fall in love with the concept of DUST... seriously who as a gamer wouldn't? I Would love all the content to be directed at the vet's... but it just isn't good for the product. How would my suggestion gear anything towards vets and not the new guys? I know that's not necessarily the point you are making, but just wanted to point it out anyways. To the new player, it would be exactly the same as it is now. They are searching for their favorite game mode then getting placed on a team within 10 seconds and can begin playing. Nothing changes for them. However, for the people who care about the fiction of Dust, you are not fighting for all these controversial corporations without a say in the matter is it would instead be viewed as a recruiting field of sorts. And for the people who care about the MMO part of Dust, they'd be able to spectate matches and place bets with others and such. It wouldn't take anything away from the new player's experience, and if anything it'd only add to it by the new player knowing that even his random instant battle holds a little bit of meaning. Most of the new players use squad finder, you can meet new players to DUST all day there really... With that the FW players squad up and go enjoy a public match setting with actual meaning... Not the endless pub's the vet's have been grinding out for a year. That to me is a noble effort into trying to deliver an experience to someone new to DUST... that the fights actually mean something. The vet comment is more towards end game content... Which seems to be what everyone want's to focus on. And really if.. Frame rate's where fixed in PC that would be enough for even the people who quit PC to give it another go.


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