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howard sanchez
expert intervention Caldari State
777
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Posted - 2013.10.17 15:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
142.292
What is yours?
Do you consider lifetime WarPoint/ total Deaths ratio tobe a valid and useful statistic to track?
KDr seems silly for 'immortal' clones to worry about. We are mercenaries. We work for profit. My Cost is closely tied to Deaths. My earnings are closely tied to WPs gained (via kills, hacks,assists, etc).
I contend that WPDr is a more valid statistic than KDr when considering mercenary effectiveness.
And because the ratio between the two values tends to be large there seems to be more granularity to track from match to match. Still testing |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2155
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Posted - 2013.10.17 16:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Honestly? All the stats are worthless for anything with the game as it is now
K/D can obviously be padded and even in legitimate games gear is significant enough that it skews the system
WP again can be pretty obviously padded just by blowing up installations at the start of a round
And win loss ratio, well just tell me this, how many times have decided to play a match only to be loaded directly to the victory or defeat screen |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
82
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Posted - 2013.10.17 16:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
im at about 300wp/d
my kd/r 3.32
my leaderboard spots are about 262 (kills) and 230something (WPs)
all really meaningless |
howard sanchez
expert intervention Caldari State
779
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
But why do you declare these stats meaningless? KDr can be 'padded'? How? If you somehow q-sync matches to get friends that will allow you to shoot them on the opposite team? That's a stretch.
How do you pad WP? Boosting is not nearly the issue it was last summer.
Now, I do consider KDr to hold less significance than WPDr when evaluating a players overall effectiveness...but for a trigger pullin assault role, KDr is the primary stat.
Logistics or support roles don't traditionally have the kind of KDr that a trigger puller would have. But with new Intel Assist and other war point feeds I would suggest that roles other than Clone Killer are starting to gain traction
Just looking for a fair way to measure performance in game.
I also consider Isk gained/death to be foundational. But a lack of good tools and data feeds makes this harder to calculate |
8213
Grade No.2
409
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stats ruin the Playerbase. People employ Kindergarten Tactics to protect their meaningless numbers. MW2 resorted t Noob Tubes, BF and Black Ops are camper fests, and even Halo is mostly just score padding.
I can tell you my KDR is 1.12(because someone told me the other day), but that doesn't reflect anything unto itself. I have no clue what my WP total is, but all that tells is how long/much you've played the game *cough* CUBS *cough*
I think the only thing that matters is ISK. We are mercenaries, and we are supposed to be turning profits and capturing planets. If you're not accomplishing that, you are not accomplishing what the game is about.
Most Protostompers have a Big Corporation they can dip into to recover their loses, and they lose money in the pubs but don't worry about it. Technically, that makes them bad players because they are losing money as an individual. Same for HAV users. You need to really be careful, because you can lose millions before you realize it. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1826
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'd say win ratio is the most important. I probably have very low ratios, but I like to fling cheap suits all over the map just to be a pain in the arse to the opposition. Right now the game doesn't have any incentive to win a match. Until then people will just play to buff other stats. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
389
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
I guess the only measure that matters is:
Do you enjoy playing, overall.
WPD is 265 approx.
Example of skewing the figures: I only use a BPO suit so my Isk lost to destroyed would be extreme. |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1005
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
I are potato. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
721
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
I like warpoints divided by skillpoints multiplied by kdr.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1403
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ive got about 2mil WP and about 3k deaths
It gives me 666.67 |
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Hellkeizer
The Avutora Complex
153
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
My WP <100,000
Death ratio is bad because of nanite injector spams and that's why people want ISK loss instead. |
howard sanchez
expert intervention Caldari State
780
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
If enjoying this game is the primary driver to logging in then we may understand why things aren't going so well for Dust
In other news...Oreo cookies are as addictive as *******.
Dust needs cream filling obv |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2276
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
WPs attempt to measure actions taken that support a win, so it's the best single indicator we have. That's the contribution portion.
What's the cost stat? Well it's really clones lost as that's what can prematurely end an objective match and it's the sole criteria in TDM. We don't have that stat however, so deaths is the next best stand-in for it.
So the best ratio we have (for all it's faults) is WP/D as you have already determined.
Now this is a ratio and ratios don't say anything about TOTAL contribution. A couple 50 point hacks and a single death yields the same ratio as 1,000 WPs and ten deaths. Are those of equal value? Of course not. The more active player is more valuable.
So we need to find a way to indicate the degree of activity in our statistic as well. |
DS 10
Ancient Exiles
1106
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
8213 wrote:Stats ruin the Playerbase. People employ Kindergarten Tactics to protect their meaningless numbers. MW2 resorted t Noob Tubes, BF and Black Ops are camper fests, and even Halo is mostly just score padding.
I can tell you my KDR is 1.12(because someone told me the other day), but that doesn't reflect anything unto itself. I have no clue what my WP total is, but all that tells is how long/much you've played the game *cough* CUBS *cough*
I think the only thing that matters is ISK. We are mercenaries, and we are supposed to be turning profits and capturing planets. If you're not accomplishing that, you are not accomplishing what the game is about.
Most Protostompers have a Big Corporation they can dip into to recover their loses, and they lose money in the pubs but don't worry about it. Technically, that makes them bad players because they are losing money as an individual. Same for HAV users. You need to really be careful, because you can lose millions before you realize it.
KDR doesn't mean anything, but I still like watching it go up. Right now my KDR is 4.39 and my WPD is 399.91. Does that make me good? No. I rooftop FG. I'm damn good at it, but the tactic is textbook "don't every really worry about dying". Playstyle makes a huge statistical difference. That's why stats mean nothing really besides your personal WL in PC and Corp Matches.
ISK should be emphasized as the main goal for players, but people always want to have good games because the CoD generation has us fully focused on our stats sheet. Yeah, I run a proto FG every time I forge. It's the only assault variant. Give me an advanced Assault FG, and I'll use that in pubs. I absolutely hate the charge holding FGs. Can't use them to save my life. I've used the IA for way too long. If I have ISK to blow, which is often since my main FG fit is only 75k ISK and I rarely die more than once or twice, sure, I'll proto stomp in my HMG fit. It's my ISK. I'll spend it how I see fit. I don't get ISK from AE. I earn my own. |
howard sanchez
expert intervention Caldari State
780
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Skihids wrote:WPs attempt to measure actions taken that support a win, so it's the best single indicator we have. That's the contribution portion.
What's the cost stat? Well it's really clones lost as that's what can prematurely end an objective match and it's the sole criteria in TDM. We don't have that stat however, so deaths is the next best stand-in for it.
So the best ratio we have (for all it's faults) is WP/D as you have already determined.
Now this is a ratio and ratios don't say anything about TOTAL contribution. A couple 50 point hacks and a single death yields the same ratio as 1,000 WPs and ten deaths. Are those of equal value? Of course not. The more active player is more valuable.
So we need to find a way to indicate the degree of activity in our statistic as well. Good post!
I have been tracking my WPDr along with profit/loss data to help me find motivation to keep at it with Dust ( I am one of those spreadsheet in space enthusiasts). I get that playing for fun and or social interaction is key for some. And playing for epeen strokage is key for others.
I just wanted to discuss key metrics that indicate a Mercenary's worth or value to other mercenaries when considering things like "do we want this fella in our squad for this FW match" or "how does my personal performance compare with this other clone over here" kind of thing.
Plus I am bored and CCP continues to shower its community with nothing but empty promises and a lack of info. Go figure |
Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
1144
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Ive got about 2mil WP and about 3k deaths
It gives me 666.67
Confirmed Takahiro is the devil in disguise. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3268
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Last time I checked it was 183.9.
But since I picked up tanking it is likely to be vastly higher. |
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