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Vulpes Dolosus
Neanderthal Nation
Public Disorder.
100
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Posted - 2013.10.16 02:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
TL;DR THIS IS NOT A RESPEC! Getting that out of the way right now. What this is is a way to put skill points from one skill into a newly released skill of a similar category. Justification is in the body so pelase consider before "QQ LOL NO RESPECZ." This is justified and not game-breaking.
What This Is
This allows a one-time opportunity for players who have been forced into choosing currently available weapons and vehicles to allocate their skill points into skills for similar, newly released content that they would have chosen had they been available. This will be a single use, full transfer of skill points from one skill tree into another that has just been released that is identical besides racial differences. This will not apply to new or unique concepts, only weapons and vehicles that differ by racial benefits (such as the combat rifle and rail rifle, the heavy suits, and racial tanks, dropships, LAVs, etc.).
For example: currently, pilots can only choose from Gallente and Caldari (armour and shield respectively) vehicles. Imagine, for whatever reason being role-playing, fan-boying, or liking the defensive/offensive philosophies, a pilot wants to pilot Minmatar vehicles (also assume that they don't want to go into infantry). So he wants to pilot Minmatar, but due to *cough*thisgameisstillinbeta*cough* not being released yet, he has no choice but to go either Cal or Gal and must skill into one of those trees despite what he otherwise might have chosen. So on the advent of the racial vehicles, it would be a disservice to have his wast all that time (and possible money) that skillpoints represent to be effectively wasted on merely a placeholder he was virtually forced into.
What This Is NOT
This is not a respecialization of skill points. Players will not be allowed to chase after new careers or new "FotM." They can only specialize into newly released similar racial skill trees of racial weapons and vehicles. So a pilot can't suddenly go infantry due to vehicle changes and visa versa. Also, taking the AR and SCR for example, if the Combat and Rail rifles are released, players cannot spec from AR to SCR, only into newly released skills. Again, this is only to provide a way for players to get into racial specializations they couldn't have gone into due to it unavailability.
Common Criticisms:
-But... EvE/Dust/CCP's all about living with your consequences?
Yes, but it is no consequence of yours that you pursued a career that was not fully developed in a game that centers around four dynamically different combat philosophies and classes. All these racial variant weapons and vehicles should have been out at the start, and all this reallocation does is turn back the SP clock to 00:00 and allows you to choose a path that should have been available to you at the start. If you decide you don't like it, tough luck, it's just as if you pursued it in the first place.
-What if it's still FotM?
As I said before, this turns back the SP clock to 00:00, so if it's OP now, it would have been OP then and people would skill into it regardless because of its obvious advantages. However, just as it would be fixed in the beginning of development, it will get fixed (I detest the term "nerf") and there will be balance to the galaxy, leaving those who pursued it because it was FotM to live with their decisions.
-When EvE gets new content, they don't get respecs.
True, but they get new content across the racial board. In Dust, we have 3, 2, heck, even 1 race to choose from per given career. How's would it be fair if, given the four-way balance touted by EvE, only Amarr got dreadnoughts and higher ships, or only Caldari received effective repairing craft?
-LOL HTFU NEWB NOAUGH REESPECHESTSZZ
You have no credibility if you cannot form concise, thoughtful points and counter-points without spouting buzzwords or other trivial, nonsensical phrases. At least attempt to see my point of view without unthinkingly discarding it. "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle. Please prove me wrong. Convince me.
My Criticisms:
Just some things I find difficult with this approach:
-What about equipment or other non-obvious racial variations (such as mass drivers, shotguns, etc)?
Haven't really looked into this one much. This really only pertains to dropsuits and vehicles because of their obvious equivalency among the racial variants, also to the infantry rifle series in light weapons, though there are also some difficulties there.
-Implementation?
This is a big issue. I have no idea how CCP will be able to timely and efficiently manage all the players asking for reallocations. I'm not very tech savvy so I have no ideas of the technical requirements and limitations, but hopefully this post can spark some interest. I imagine that CCP could just have everyone interested put in a ticket and go from there, but who knows.
-Crossing from an armour tank to shield tank?
This goes back to the first point. Will someone who specced into Caldari and shields be able to switch to Amarr and armour skills? The skills for defenses don't mesh up very well, so I'm having trouble seeing how that will work, if at all. So I'd imagine one would just have to HTFU and grind, but that grind would still be easier than both defenses and what ever just came out.
Closing
This game isn't finished yet. Yes, this game will continue to evolve through the years (hopefully!), but the things I'm asking to spec into should have been in the beginning. Imagine EvE not giving Amarr or Minmatar any ships higher than a cruiser at release! This idea for skill allocation is fair in that it forces the player to live with the career choices s/he has made, but allows him/her to pursue the racial variant that should have been available from the start.
Thanks for reading.
-Vulpes |
RedZer0 MK1
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
74
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Posted - 2013.10.16 03:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
I read the whole post. Yet, in all honesty, a respec would be easiest to implement. None of the delays like last time, just terrible. Easy for us, easy for CCP. |
Chad Michael Murray
The Phoenix Federation
Ascension Alliance
95
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Posted - 2013.10.16 03:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
This will result in people re-allocating their points into things they end up hating and having the QQ posts multiply by 15 for respecs. Are you sure? Are you really? |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
1803
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Posted - 2013.10.16 03:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
@ Vulpes Dolosus
+1 to respecs XD |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
1185
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 04:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Support 100% |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2137
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Posted - 2013.10.16 04:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
RedZer0 MK1 wrote:I read the whole post. Yet, in all honesty, a respec would be easiest to implement. None of the delays like last time, just terrible. Easy for us, easy for CCP.
Indeed but see thats a bit to easy and reasonable even if it was only done in a partial way such as drop suit skills when those are all released or vehicles when those are all released
Instead we should spout HTFU and New Eden is harsh and whine about how its going to be everyone in FOTM and why didnt you just not spend any SP on anything you should have been patient and saved up and with a respec everyone will just be in proto gear all the time etc etc |
RedZer0 MK1
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
75
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Posted - 2013.10.16 13:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:RedZer0 MK1 wrote:I read the whole post. Yet, in all honesty, a respec would be easiest to implement. None of the delays like last time, just terrible. Easy for us, easy for CCP. Indeed but see thats a bit to easy and reasonable even if it was only done in a partial way such as drop suit skills when those are all released or vehicles when those are all released Instead we should spout HTFU and New Eden is harsh and whine about how its going to be everyone in FOTM and why didnt you just not spend any SP on anything you should have been patient and saved up and with a respec everyone will just be in proto gear all the time etc etc
The only people who are suddenly have proto gear are people who miss placed their skills the first time around. Protoztomp is a term since there are so many people already in proto gear. Personally I don't care if a slew of rookies get proto gear, they are still rookies. Btw, FOTM comes from bad design, and speccing into a FOTM weapon doesn't take a lot of time anyway. Honestly it could be done in a week. So why is everyone concerned about thwarting these people for a week? |
Takron Nistrom
eHarmony Inc.
89
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bad planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
I would love a respec, they're easy and it makes it so I can waste points to fix it later. If a new suit is coming out, save your points.-áEasy. When new content in Eve comes out, they don't offer respecs. Deal with ur choices and move on.
I regret them giving the last respec, because now every whiner thinks they are entitled to one every time something comes out that they like better. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6597
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Takron Nistrom wrote:Bad planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
I would love a respec, they're easy and it makes it so I can waste points to fix it later. If a new suit is coming out, save your points.-áEasy. When new content in Eve comes out, they don't offer respecs. Deal with ur choices and move on.
I regret them giving the last respec, because now every whiner thinks they are entitled to one every time something comes out that they like better.
Bad post is bad
The game released back in May, asking that people just have saved their SP all these months and to keep waiting indefinitely is just unreasonable. You can't play competitively without specializing; unless you want to stomps on by proto-squads and have no fun, you have to specialize.
Stop blaming players for CCP not releasing the full racial sets like they should have from the beginning. |
Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
23
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
ITT;
Bads - NO CAN HAS RESPEC!!11!1oneoneeleven
Everyone else - I want at least a partial respec because I couldn't specialize into what I actually wanted/made sense because it simply didn't exist, and really until the patch, still doesn't |
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Vulpes Dolosus
Neanderthal Nation
Public Disorder.
108
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Takron Nistrom wrote:Bad planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
I would love a respec, they're easy and it makes it so I can waste points to fix it later. If a new suit is coming out, save your points.-áEasy. When new content in Eve comes out, they don't offer respecs. Deal with ur choices and move on.
I regret them giving the last respec, because now every whiner thinks they are entitled to one every time something comes out that they like better.
Did you even read the post?
This is not a respec. It's a chance to put skills you have from one skill that fitted your career choice into a similar skill that should have been available from the start. There's no "bad planning," because there was no planning to be done (unless you assert that people should just save their all skill points in the hopes of filler content coming SOON^tm).
You can't switch classes, only races (so an assault is still an assault, tanker is still a tanker, etc) and only applies to new content (so when the Amarr tank comes out, a Caldari tank swhich to Gallente). This also won't apply to new unique content (such as fighters, MAVs, etc.), only to racial variants that are filling spots that should have been filled from the beginning. |
SteelDark Knight
Ancient Exiles
126
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Posted - 2013.10.16 15:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am in favor of a final respec once we have all racial weaponry and suits in game including vehicles as well as when all of the major tweaks to balancing during this rapid release schedule are completed.
I am in favor of this even though I am one of the players whom plan for the opposite and am currently sitting on over 12M unspent SP.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1303
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Posted - 2013.10.16 15:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Solid approach to handling introduction of new basic content. +1
Should only apply to the basics: Racial suits, rifles, sidearms and vehicles. Should not apply to specialty stuff such as Shotgun or Mass Driver.
Suits of the same type (Scout, Heavy, and Commando). Sorry pilots, Scout to Pilot suit is not a lateral move, but if they donGÇÖt introduce all the Pilot suits at once, then it would apply to switching racial pilot suits.
Rifle: Only the 4 racial infantry rifles. Should not apply to the other specialty weapons such as Shotgun, Mass Driver, or Sniper Rifle.
Sidearm: SMG, Scrambler Pistol, Magsec SMG, and Ion Pistol. Should exclude the Faloc Pistol as a specialty weapon.
Vehicles: Should include any vehicle that is supposed to have a variant for all four races. I think this includes all vehicles right now. |
Nirwanda Vaughns
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
100
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Posted - 2013.10.16 15:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hasn't anyone realized yet then when CCP introduce or change something in a big way there is a 2x 3x sp event shortly after? could this possibly be their way of allowing people to make up 'lost' sp?
in all honesty though i think when the new heavy suits are introduced then isk for skillbooks and sp for the heavy frame skill tree should be returned. same goes for scouts. heavies have only had one choice since chromo. personally i'm waiting for the racial heavy before i skill into commando suits as i want the minmatar or gallente one, scouts are not too bad, the choice on offer give a good variety and uses. proto gallente scout now with profile damp up makes a very effective 'spy' for flanking enemies and placing uplinks down. although personally i would like to see a stealth uplink. its pretty dumb having a suit that is invisible to scanners for tactical purposes only for the uplinks to light up like times square on nye as soon as its dropped.
give it 5 spawns, enough to get your squad in, one carried, one deployed, proto level.
as for full respecs, when you have paid -ú15 a month for 3yrs training into a weapon system which then gets nerfed so much its effectivly useless unless you train for a further 18months in the new skills introduced that still leaves it less effective than before you have a right to moan about ccp changing something. If treyarch or infinity ward nerf a weapon in cod does the player base request respecs? same with battlefield? this is an unfinished game, we know the risks when we signed up for it, its all laid out in the terms that things can change.
addmitedly it's good for player relations if ccp offer to return sp's when stuff changes in a big way but the constant whining about when a weapon gets changed is pathetic. i have all my AR skills to 5, proficiency, ammo, sharpshooter, reload. what'll happen with the changes? i'll be p.o'd but it's still going to do plenty of damage within its range, i have scrambler rifles to pro 1 now for further range if needed, u just have to learn to adapt
most of the playerbase are usually to blame if their fave suit/weapon is changed seeing as most come on here and brag about how op it is. remember when folk came on here bragging how thier caldari logi had 1000shields and 500 armor, then everyone moves to caldari logi and ccp look at why a certain thing is being used, soon forge guns will be balanced as loads of people move towards using proto assault forge to farm kills and don't use it as intended. on a note though i believe ccp should give the caldari suits the cpu back they took. that was a bit harsh.
an idea i came up with to stop all the respec whines was to be able to downgrade a skills level but at an sp cost of a fixed percentage. that way playerbase get to adjust their skills at will but lose 10-20% of the total skillpoints if they choose to do so.
other ideas batted about our corp has been 'respec tokens' these offer a similar method but are bought with aurum and allow you to return all sps from a selected skill tree.
another was simply an annual respec offer similar to the way eve pilots can change their characters attributes once a year this allows you to sell the skillbooks you no longer require and return all the sp to unallocated for use as you choose. offering up one or even more of these could help ease all the grief and whining concerning respecs that plague the forums
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Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
530
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 16:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:TL;DR THIS IS NOT A RESPEC! Getting that out of the way right now. What this is is a way to put skill points from one skill into a newly released skill of a similar category. Justification is in the body so pelase consider before "QQ LOL NO RESPECZ." This is justified and not game-breaking.
-Vulpes
Yeah +1 for my idea ... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1389522#post1389522
I also posted it a very long time ago but couldn't find the link. |
Captain-Awesome
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
531
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Posted - 2013.10.16 16:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's not a respec, but by definition you state a respec.
Asking to move points you were "Forced" to spend is a respec no matter how you put it.
Just like all the other idiots in this game, stop asking for a damn respec, learn to play, and IF you get one for some extremely rare instance, pull your self entitled finger out of your ***.
CCP said no more respecs, so stop asking - you'll get what you're given and like it. Ungrateful ***** |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
702
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Posted - 2013.10.16 16:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
it will depend greatly upon how they change the skilltrees. if they don't change the skilltrees fundamentally than you'll just have to save some sp. you can have a million by the time the update comes easy. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1840
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Posted - 2013.10.16 19:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
If we were promised this I might actually get back into the game more often... I have like 9 million sp saved up because I want my minmatar heavy but don't want to waste points on ammar suit ;_; |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9483
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Posted - 2013.10.16 19:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
On weapons and equipment I will say no. Most people are drawn to the weapons for their function alone.
Suits and vehicles are different and I will whole fully agree with having if allowed as they are generally a means and not all means exist yet. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
532
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Posted - 2013.10.16 20:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:On weapons and equipment I will say no. Most people are drawn to the weapons for their function alone.
Suits and vehicles are different and I will whole fully agree with having if allowed as they are generally a means and not all means exist yet.
I'd be tempted to go as far as allowing reassignment from SMG to the new SMG, or the AR or ScR into the new versions since they are their races equivalent. It's not a change of specialisation, more a factional preference in most cases. |
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
1155
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Posted - 2013.10.16 20:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
I 100% agree with the OP |
xp3ll3d dust
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
90
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Posted - 2013.10.16 23:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vehicles should just get a SP refund from the vehicle skills, as it is a complete revamp.
New weapon variations shouldn't result in any form of SP reimbursement. You can still use your same weapon after new ones are released. You are then free to skill into a new weapon like everyone else. If you're that worried, just save all your SP for the 2 weeks before a patch is dropped. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
408
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Posted - 2013.10.17 00:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Solid approach to handling introduction of new basic content. +1
Should only apply to the basics: Racial suits, rifles, sidearms and vehicles. Should not apply to specialty stuff such as Shotgun or Mass Driver.
Suits of the same type (Scout, Heavy, and Commando). Sorry pilots, Scout to Pilot suit is not a lateral move, but if they donGÇÖt introduce all the Pilot suits at once, then it would apply to switching racial pilot suits.
Rifle: Only the 4 racial infantry rifles. Should not apply to the other specialty weapons such as Shotgun, Mass Driver, or Sniper Rifle.
Sidearm: SMG, Scrambler Pistol, Magsec SMG, and Ion Pistol. Should exclude the Faloc Pistol as a specialty weapon.
Vehicles: Should include any vehicle that is supposed to have a variant for all four races. I think this includes all vehicles right now.
Flaylock pistol is a racial pistol.
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Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1568
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Posted - 2013.10.17 00:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Definitely agree with OP's points, though delivery of said request would likely be easier implemented through full Respec.
I'm 100% in favor of punishing FotM (myself included) and thereby opposed -- in general -- to the availability of Respec. However, I think it reasonable for CCP to consider offering Respec under special circumstances, such as:
1) Offer Respec once all Racial Suits are made available.
2) Offer Respec if/when playerbase shrinks as result of PS4 attrition.
3) Offer Respec "token" to new players for use any time after Academy graduation. |
Vulpes Dolosus
Neanderthal Nation
Public Disorder.
120
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Posted - 2013.10.20 21:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:On weapons and equipment I will say no. Most people are drawn to the weapons for their function alone.
Suits and vehicles are different and I will whole fully agree with having if allowed as they are generally a means and not all means exist yet.
I'd settle for this. |
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