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FrozenChaos
Neo Terra Imperial Army Neo Terra Empire
15
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Posted - 2013.10.13 17:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
though like i said in my earlier post that is if they give a drain effect on the rep tool to help keep the logi alive |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2013.10.13 18:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Captain Crutches wrote:I think this would curb a lot of the problems with logi suits being basically assaults with more equipment. Think about it... On most other suit setups, what's in its main (non-sidearm) weapon slot largely determines its role. A rocket launcher or forge gun means it's an AV setup; an HMG, AR, etc means it's an assault fit, laser or sniper rifle means it's long range, etc. Most everything else on the suit is based around making it more effective with whatever's in that slot. A repair tool is a logi's main tool, it's about the size of a light weapon, and it's something you point and shoot at people... Sounds like something that would go in that slot without too much difficulty.
This would also mirror the way it is in EVE. Remote repair modules take up high power slots on ships, which is where you'd ordinarily fit weapons. Logistics ships fit remote reps instead of, not in addition to, guns, because that's their main tool for performing their function on the battlefield.
With a repair tool needing to go in the light weapon slot, people using logi suits would be more likely to use them for their intended purpose. They'd still have a sidearm for defense (EDIT: Since this seemed to cause confusion, those without sidearms would be given sidearms so they would all have a weapon) and to make the fit "valid" (which is something I still don't agree with, but that's a topic for another thread), but if they're doing their jobs they'd be sticking with the guys with the bigger guns and keeping them alive and loaded so they can do the killing while the logibro does his logi-ing. He'd also have more equipment slots open for hives, uplinks, and injectors so he can do even more logistics work, helping his team and netting himself more WP.
Coupled with a bonus to repair tool range and/or rep amount (like on EVE's logi ships), as well as better bonuses to light weapons on assault suits, I think this would make people more prone to using logi suits for logi and assault suits for assault. I don't know about you guys, but too often I see myself get killed by a logi suit with a Duvolle AR and think "That isn't what he should be carrying!"
Thinking in terms of balancing out the suits and encouraging people to use suits more for their intended roles. What do you guys think?
I keep a repair tool with me when I'm in assault mode. I think the importance of that item is so underestimated. It helps so much and I love it when those around me use them. That being said and how you speak so well about it, side arms are not enough in my book unless you have proto's like a six kin smg or a proto scrambler pistol. When I snipe I feel like I can always use a extra piece like a AR because most side arms ... and this is just my belief ... are not strong enough unless their a proto, I mean advance scrambler pistols are good but taking away a weapon for triage??? I think logi's would have a bigger bulls eye on their head than they do now. I know I would try to headshot every one I seen while sniping. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1109
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Posted - 2013.10.13 19:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
I stopped reading around the part where we started hitting the OP. Here's my opinion as a professional Gallente Logistics Officer.
The Logistics is supposed to be very combat efficient, as a capsuleer from EVE, you should know that already. Removing the ability to hold a Light Weapon and instead, giving them one usable Sidearm slot would ruin the purpose. They're supposed to deal damage, and they're supposed to tank damage. We're also supposed to fill any role that would ever be needed. You're able to fit a Gallente Logistics with over 1000 eHP, IIRC. So you can definitely tank damage. Or you can deal a ton of damage by stacking 5 damage mods on a C-Logi. Become a medic by getting a Repair Tool, Nanite Injector, and Nanohive. Or maybe a Sniper with Uplinks and Hives?
We're the most versatile class. Taking away half of what makes us versatile is killing the role. How many sidearms can fill area-denial properly? The Flaylock sure can't, that's a finisher weapon. Or how many sidearms can do anti-vehicle. I know the Core Flaylock can knock a dropship completely upside down, but against tanks and cars, good luck. How many sidearms can do long-range bombarding of the enemies defenses? Definitely not the SMG. Another one? Fine. What sidearm can be as lethal as a shotgun in CQC? Ion Pistols aren't here yet, so your answer would be: No weapon.
What I'm trying to say here is that our Light Weapons make the role we fill, not just healing. An Assault Rifle make us mid-range threats, Mass Drivers can fill area denial, while the Plasma Cannon can excel in long-range and close-range destruction, depending on your target. Of course, part of our role is the equipment we choose, but that's only half of it.
Another point, if you give all Logistics a sidearm, what would make the Amarrian Logistics special? Balanced slot count is good, but not enough to make it stand out. The Minmatar Logi has increased speed and hacking abilities, the Gallente Logistics has the most utility, and so on.
That's all I have off the top of my head, but I'm sure I could come up with more, if I was more focused.
TL;DR, having the Repair Tool go in the Light Weapon Slot would absolutely kill versatility, which is the Logistics sharpest point. If this turns into a "thing", I'll gladly try to kill a tank, or snipe, or do area-denial with my Repair Tool, and see how many kills I get.
EDIT: Also, giving all Logistics a Sidearm but not making the Repair Tool REQUIRED, would bring your inevitable doom. Everyone who says the Logistics is a mega-assault, then you haven't seen anything yet. Stop crying and support the Logistics, else we get a sidearm to turn into REAL mega-assaults.
Captain Crutches wrote:I think this would curb a lot of problems with logi suits being basically assaults with more equipment
Giving the Logistics a sidearm would literally make them into Assaults with more equipment. And a higher slot count. Logistics aren't OP, not by a long-shot. Giving them another slot, but then nerfing versatility would not make us 'balanced', because the Repair Tool would be optional, no matter what. Just fit an AR, SMG, Medic supplies, and brick tank yourself to death. THAT'S what I think is OP. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
439
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Posted - 2013.10.13 19:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
Telleth wrote:So with the current way of things, this would be rather not good. When is the last time you heard someone say put a rep tool on your PC fit?
However I think I could get behind this if all logi suits had a sidearm, and the rep tool was buffed a lot. Like an AR and a half worth of DPS. Think about a heavy with one or two of these on him, walk straight into a mob and clean house if the mob isn't smart enough to target the logi. Setup a logi train with the dps'er out front, and logi's chained back till the vulnerable one is in cover. Could break the chain with focused fire. Would be interesting and make the Rep tool something worth not having a gun out.
I'd happily run just the ishukone SMG if the repair tool was that good. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1110
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Posted - 2013.10.13 20:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Being a good logi is not easy. You have less firepower, less attack power, less HP...The only exception to firepower being the Amarrian Logi... And they have less HP.
Hello! I just wanted to say that I agree with pretty much everything except this right here. Using the Gallente Logistics as an example, we have almost the same base eHP as an Assault. And the Logistics role itself (Primarily Triage), is meant to brick-tank everything to hell. We have more slots to increase survivability and damage output. Now, the Logi, as I said before, is meant for versatility. You can stack speed modules, stealth modules, or tanking modules, but for any Triage Logistics, it's best to brick-tank, because of the need to survive a firefight long enough to repair and revive your teammates. The Assaults do some (If not most) of the heavy lifting, and we stay alive long enough to help people recover from the aftermath.
So when you say the Logistics has less HP, I think you mean BASE HP. The whole reason people think Logistics is OP is because (using the G-Logi as an example again), we can raise our HP to that of a medium-fit heavy. Not the max HP, but certainly not the least.
Also, when you say less Firepower and less Attack power, I suppose you mean guns. I'm not sure if you meant to do that, but I think those are synonyms. I'd like to point out, however, that if you mean Attack Power as in Damage Output, that's certainly not true. We have Remote Explosives, Proxys, and many other things at our disposal to wipe out the opposition. Not to mention the Armor Tankers, which have nothing to put in their high slots, except for Damage Mods. |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
306
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Posted - 2013.10.13 20:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
i wonder how players in PS2 or BF would react if the devs took their guns away as medics... |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5958
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Posted - 2013.10.13 20:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
FrozenChaos wrote:though like i said in my earlier post that is if they give a drain effect on the rep tool to help keep the logi alive You can't ADS with a repper, flux has a max range of 22m and an AR would wreck you. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5958
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Posted - 2013.10.13 20:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:i wonder how players in PS2 or BF would react if the devs took their guns and gave them only pistols as medics. Nobody pays for their gear in PS2. |
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