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Jakobi Wan
Legions of Infinite Dominion
9
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Posted - 2013.10.09 23:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've seen gameplay from friends and sponsored players out of planet-side 2 (another tactical FPS/MMO that's currently free to play on the PC) and thought that this MMO really had a wonderful parallel to this game and was completely blown away by the experience they've created using their sandbox kind of combat.
essentially i'd just like to see matches expanded to a (much larger) scale my dream FPS would be closer to the size of MAGs 160player matches or more!
i understand small is better for the testing and development purposes but for entertainment purposes I'd like to see the size of these matches drastically increase if not be converted to sandbox play all together.
what are your thoughts on such match-lobby changes? |
Di God Satire
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.10.10 00:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jakobi Wan wrote:I've seen gameplay from friends and sponsored players out of planet-side 2 (another tactical FPS/MMO that's currently free to play on the PC) and thought that this MMO really had a wonderful parallel to this game and was completely blown away by the experience they've created using their sandbox kind of combat.
essentially i'd just like to see matches expanded to a (much larger) scale my dream FPS would be closer to the size of MAGs 160player matches or more!
i understand small is better for the testing and development purposes but for entertainment purposes I'd like to see the size of these matches drastically increase if not be converted to sandbox play all together.
what are your thoughts on such match-lobby changes?
MAG's 256 players |
Jackof All-Trades
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
197
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Posted - 2013.10.10 03:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Agreed. To be honest, the only reason I play DUST is to get to that future dream. If CCP has not thoughts on making it an actual sandbox, then why call it a FPSMMO? |
BARDAS
DUST University
Ivy League
636
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Posted - 2013.10.10 03:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Latency in this game is bad already with 16 vs 16. Any bigger and I think my PS3 would explode. |
KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
805
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Posted - 2013.10.10 03:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
When this game is on the PS4 or a PC then expansion beyond the current solution is possible.
Until then, recall that CoD (or BF3, don't care myself) ran 64x64 on PC while 24v24 on consoles. The current generation is very limited. As in RAM limited, video limited, I/O throughout limited, network bandwidth limited and nearly any other benchmark you could throw at it. Limited. Old. Deceased. Should have been replaced two or three years ago but both companies wanted to beat dead horses versus getting with the times.
MAG is dead. The release of that game was a disaster. It killed the development studio and SONY killed it completely some while ago. Let's not emulate that. |
Spirit Charm
Bhaalgorn Industries
75
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Posted - 2013.10.10 04:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:When this game is on the PS4 or a PC then expansion beyond the current solution is possible.
Until then, recall that CoD (or BF3, don't care myself) ran 64x64 on PC while 24v24 on consoles. The current generation is very limited. As in RAM limited, video limited, I/O throughout limited, network bandwidth limited and nearly any other benchmark you could throw at it. Limited. Old. Deceased. Should have been replaced two or three years ago but both companies wanted to beat dead horses versus getting with the times.
MAG is dead. The release of that game was a disaster. It killed the development studio and SONY killed it completely some while ago. Let's not emulate that.
Dude. dont talk bout stuff you dont know anything about. TRY reading up a little bit. MAG a fun FPS game. Truly a MMO FPS has over 256 ppl playing and it runs smooth as mellow yellow. PS3 btw too. Also the ps3 is perfect for that huge type of game. It would be CCPs fault if it wouldnt work. Some else did it. Then anyone can. Not that anyone can. But everyone has the ability too. Maybe not the know how. Point is. PPL need to stop talking out their butts about how the ps3 cant do this or that. Look at the new games coming out. Its amazing. Beyond two souls is by far perfect in visuals. As for Players in a group online. FF14 ARR is a mmo that can have more then 250 + players from the PC and ps3 all in the same area and not crash. Or explode. Learn your sht. The Ps3 is alot better then you and 50+ give it credit.
btw. CCP said it is never gonna be on PS4 or PC so stop sayin it is and get over it. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
372
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 05:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:When this game is on the PS4 or a PC then expansion beyond the current solution is possible.
Until then, recall that CoD (or BF3, don't care myself) ran 64x64 on PC while 24v24 on consoles. The current generation is very limited. As in RAM limited, video limited, I/O throughout limited, network bandwidth limited and nearly any other benchmark you could throw at it. Limited. Old. Deceased. Should have been replaced two or three years ago but both companies wanted to beat dead horses versus getting with the times.
MAG is dead. The release of that game was a disaster. It killed the development studio and SONY killed it completely some while ago. Let's not emulate that.
What makes you think that only expansion on a newer system is possible? Optimization of the engine and possibly changing engines may be the solution. Although it may seem like a lot of work to change the game engine, it may be the only solution if this one cannot keep up with what devs and players have envisioned for this game. We need to think bigger picture and not limit ourselves to believing that it is not possible because it is not already done.
Currently we have an engine that was really the king of FPS gaming for a long time but haven't a good number of games already moved past the limitations that this engine seems to have? I know that a number of new games coming out (Destiny PS3/PS4/Xbox) and ones already in existence (Planetside 2 PC) are able to effectively run large scale battles. With Planetside able to fluidly support 2500 players in a battle at once, it make me wonder why there are not already plans to switch to a more robust game engine.
If anyone can give me a few reasons to think that the Unreal engine is capable of supporting the large scale battles that everyone is asking for I would really appreciate the info, currently I wonder at times if my PS3 is going to catch fire when I join a PC battle or if it will be stable and consistent throughout the match. |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
298
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 07:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
As much as i want the player count to go up some 40 players,i feel the cqc areas of the game are too small for such big player counts,it would become a clustered mess atm.(imagine 16 players trying to get pass each other through a narrow hallway to get to a terminal) hope CCP makes sockets(i hope it's what they are called) that can accommodate future player counts,seeing as we have to much outdoor room but not indoor. |
KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
806
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 11:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spirit Charm wrote:Dude. dont talk bout stuff you dont know anything about. TRY reading up a little bit. MAG a fun FPS game. Truly a MMO FPS has over 256 ppl playing and it runs smooth as mellow yellow. PS3 btw too. Also the ps3 is perfect for that huge type of game. It would be CCPs fault if it wouldnt work. Some else did it. Then anyone can. Not that anyone can. But everyone has the ability too. Maybe not the know how. Point is. PPL need to stop talking out their butts about how the ps3 cant do this or that. Look at the new games coming out. Its amazing. Beyond two souls is by far perfect in visuals. As for Players in a group online. FF14 ARR is a mmo that can have more then 250 + players from the PC and ps3 all in the same area and not crash. Or explode. Learn your sht. The Ps3 is alot better then you and 50+ give it credit.
btw. CCP said it is never gonna be on PS4 or PC so stop sayin it is and get over it. Fun and dead.
You do the reading mate. Turns out the studio, owned by Sony, was disbanded and the servers are next.
Great game? Maybe. I'll take your word for it.
Dead game? Yep, I will take SONY's word for it. They killed Zipper Interactive (March 30, 2012) and the servers will be off line on January 28, 2014. So play quick because its time is ... well, nearly over.
Dead Game Studio, fantastic server architecture to support 256 players that was dead on delivery and replaced. Good game but the only award it got was from Guinness for most players on a console. Oops. Not enough to save it.
And I love your explanation about who can do it. Anybody except not anybody but somebody has so some somebody else could but who that would be you don't say. Very funny. I know I won't be reading about Zipper Interactive ... because they are disbanded. In the game business that means Dead.
CCP never said never. They said it was a PS3 game and that it was not going to be moved in 2014. After the exclusive period drops we will see what happens. If SONY wants it to move to the PS4 it is just UnReal code so moving it to UnReal 4 (already running on the PS4 ... and the PC) should be easy. For a reasonable development group anyway. I would suspect if SONY doesn't make it worth CCP's while than moving to PC makes more sense since their EVE base is PC only. They could easily triple the player base by just moving to UnReal 4 on PC. Wait and see, I am pretty sure CCP will not share until they are ready. And SONY has only committed to supporting the PS3 for two years after the PS4 drops. Whatever That means.
The reason I know about MAG is I read the game development trade mags and it was universally considered a failure. They never got enough paying players to get a positive ROI (return on investment ... aka make money). That is what colored my view on the game. Big deal, big write ups, huge hype, release fumbled, lacked polish, buggy, fancy architecture failed and was replaced. Finally the writing was on the wall when SONY wouldn't give Zipper anything new to work on. Then everything got real quiet and layoffs were tweeted, picked up in the press and SONY confirmed they had disbanded the studio, the same one they had purchased not all that long ago.
The PS3 is over, btw. Horrible processor. Interesting, fast and very different to program, which is why I bought my PS3. Fantastic when you can get it to work but it is simpler to just program a standard CPU and GPU that will out perform it. The Cell Broadband processor cost SONY a Year slip in release date because they originally wanted it to do the graphics as well. The various developers finally convinced SONY that they had to have a graphics chip. It shipped to developers with barely any documentation, a skeleton SDK with a barely functional OS at the time and not enough libraries to support it. They have made great progress and now it is a reasonable (but oooold) console. Many third party companies support it with good SDKs and libraries now. Soon it will be replaced by one with much more memory (16 times more) and a notebook APU from AMD. Except for the OS it will look almost exactly like a PC. So enjoy your PS3, too bad you cannot run Linux on it so you could program the Cell. It was interesting processor. IBM halted work on it many years ago. |
KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
806
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 12:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:What makes you think that only expansion on a newer system is possible? Optimization of the engine and possibly changing engines may be the solution.
-- snip --
currently I wonder at times if my PS3 is going to catch fire when I join a PC battle or if it will be stable and consistent throughout the match. The biggest problem with the PS3 when compared to the Xbox 360 is the memory is fixed. 256MB system RAM and 256MG of video RAM. The Xbox (bleah) has 512MB of RAM as well but it has a trick up its sleeve. The developer can move the split between the two. Dynamically, while the game is loaded. Exactly how or when I have never aspired to find out. NDAs and all that junk. Not worth the effort. My video card has twice as much memory as my PS3 and my Xbox 360 combined. But that has allowed easier development on the Xbox while SONY file sizes have also provided problems (not for DUST).
The UnReal Engine 3 is limited in what it can do. There seems to be plenty of evidence that the UnReal 4 is better in many ways. However, Epic has not stated (that I could find anyway) that it was going to be on the existing consoles but they have committed to next gen (PS4 and XBone) plus it is already on the PC. As the next consoles are basically mid to low level PCs with APU (AMD notebook Application Processing Units including a low power CPU and a mid level GPU) then it would make sense that running on the new consoles will not be much more than a configuration change at build time. The biggest limitation for both of them is the small hard drives and the amount of data necessary to download to support a game. Possibly (not sure until we get them) leading to needing to delete and reload games. Neither will ship with removable storage nor larger drives. Later though, most likely.
Some of the PS3 problems from a game performance standpoint is the extensive security efforts. The entire drive is encrypted. Everything read off the drive has to be decrypted and everything that was modified (user data) that needs to be stored will have to be re-encrypted. Now the CELL BE has a dedicated SPE that SONY has reserved just for that. So mostly it shouldn't be a major issue. But, like death by a thousand cuts these add up.
The HDD in both systems are laptop HDD. The interfaces are 8 years old. As are the network/wifi solutions. So getting data to it, from it and sharing it is slow when compared to the next gen consoles or even slower when compared to a modern PC. The next gen consoles will be using combined memory (like they are doing currently) but it will be faster and there will be much more of it.
Back to programming. Optimization of the UnReal Engine 3 is possible. Not likely for CCP/Shanghai. They probably have the source code (standard licensing practice with EPIC for many development houses). But they are a very small team that is currently stressed just getting the game up to the level that they have promised and the players want. There is some trade rumors that they have hired some ex-BIOWARE developers to help with hit detection but it is just a rumor. Hard to tell if it is true or that it will pan out even if true.
Changing to the UnReal Engine cost CCP over a year and half of game development. That is fairly normal. With a large experienced team one could hope to port in a year. Neither are true here although CCP/Shanghai is gaining experience they don't have enough personnel to do the current work plus a port in the background. That will take another complete team. It might be happening but the easiest and cheapest solution (good idea for F2P) is to port to UnReal 4. The increased art detail and textures are compatible with UnReal 4 and would most likely be usable for any modern game engine. Still that work is not Zero effort.
Additionally we (the devoted players) don't really know what the problems are. They might be the SONY network, the CCP server architecture (which was designed for a point and click space game with time dilation if it gets too busy) or the version of UnReal Engine that DUST is on. Or some third party libraries that are being used. For that matter, CCP (Iceland and Shanghai) might not know as well. Although one hopes that they have some idea on about the situation.
To fix the problems on the PS3 CCP would have to nearly double their team or add another team to optimize the version of UnReal they have licensed. DUST is F2P. Are they making enough money to pay for another team? Not the art team, just programmers, debuggers, project managers and QA. Hard to say. If it was me, and it most certainly isn't, I would just test it on the available PS4 development boxes and their existing PC systems on UnReal 4. If they get a reasonable product out of it then the best thing to do is wait. Yes, we fans will be disappointed. But the current team will continue to solve problems and expand assets over the next year or so. Then when CCP and SONY decide what they want to do next they can devote the resources to move it to wherever it is going to wind up. We will know SOON(tm) or when they decide to let us know.
Draco:
If your individual PS3 is struggling here are two simple suggestions that might help. Clean the PS3, take it apart and replace the Thermal Paste with Arctic Silver. You could also buy a Solid State Drive in the 2.5" format. The current ones are SATA 2 and 3 but will downgrade to SATA 1 for the PS3 while still being very fast compared to the default drive. Never replace the 5400 RPM HDD with a faster laptop HDD. It will simply overheat and die an early death.
Search YouTube for a video for your model PS3 and/or check ifixit (dot com). They have guides to repair it. Good Luck. |
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