DUST Search - Suggested Speed Changes (Scout Buff)

AfroSunshineY Consequence wrote:

The reason this hasn't gotten a bigger response from the scout community is that nobody expects a change in scouts till what? 1.8 if we're lucky. But more likely 1.9 - maybe not till 2.0. 1.6 is going to be minor and 1.7 will be vehicles almost exclusively I would bet. Haven't you ever noticed that Scout threads never get a dev response? Don't you find it odd that the most clearly imbalanced suit in the game receives no attention from the developers?

They have no plans for scouts - at least none that they have begun to implement or test. So they ignore us and hope we'll just keep playing.

Also, it's a PIPE dream to think that they will slow down other suits to give scouts any sort of buff. Assaults/Logis would rage and since they're the majority they would get their way. The speed "buff" you proposed also wouldn't stop scouts from getting AR r@ped as assault turn speed would stay the same and for some reason ARs do the same amount of damage at 10m as they do at 70 m these days.

Scouting is dead. And it will remain dead because scrubs in medium/heavy suits would complain if they couldn't get their easy kills on us. That's all.


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Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 156	Posted - 2013.10.09 12:12:00 - [1] - Quote TL;DR Without going into to why this is necessary (as there are many other threads that have already covered this in detail), I propose this idea to the current dynamic. First, make every Frame suit .9m faster that the one below it. So Medium Frame Suits would be .9m faster than Heavies, and Light Frames would be .9m faster than Mediums, with Amarr receiving a .15 penalty to speed and the Minmatar receiving a .15 bonus. Second, increase the speed for the Commando, Assault, and Scout Suits by .3m Third, reduce sprint speed from plus 40% base movement to plus 30% base movement. Finally, increase crouch speed to 50% base movement. So it would look like this: Heavy Frames Amarr: Base Movement - 3.65, Sprint - 4.75 (4.98 with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 3.29, Crouch - 1.83, Crouch Strafe - 1.64 Caldari/Gallente: Base Movement - 3.8, Sprint - 4.94 (5.19 with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 3.42, Crouch - 1.9, Crouch Strafe - 1.71 Minmatar: Base Movement - 3.95, Sprint - 5.14 (5.39 with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 3.56, Crouch - 1.98, Crouch Strafe - 1.78 Medium Frames Amarr: Base Movement 4.55, Sprint - 5.92 (6.21 with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 4.1, Crouch - 2.28, Crouch Strafe - 2.05 Caldari/Gallente: Base Movement - 4.7, Sprint - 6.11 (6.42 with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 4.23, Crouch - 2.35, Crouch Strafe - 2.12 Minmatar: Base Movement - 4.85, Sprint - 6.31 (6.62 with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 4.37, Crouch - 2.43, Crouch Strafe - 2.18 Light Frames Amarr: Base Movement 5.45, Sprint -7.09(7.44with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 4.91, Crouch - 2.73, Crouch Strafe - 2.45 Caldari/Gallente: Base Movement - 5.6, Sprint - 7.28 (7.64with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 5.04, Crouch - 2.8, Crouch Strafe - 2.52 Minmatar: Base Movement - 5.75, Sprint -7.48(7.85with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 5.18, Crouch - 2.88, Crouch Strafe - 2.59 Specialty Suits: Commando Amarr: Base Movement 3.95, Sprint -5.14(5.39with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 3.56, Crouch - 1.98, Crouch Strafe - 1.78 Caldari/Gallente: Base Movement - 4.1, Sprint - 5.33 (5.6with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 3.69, Crouch - 2.05, Crouch Strafe - 1.85 Minmatar: Base Movement - 4.25, Sprint -5.53(5.8with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 3.83, Crouch - 2.13, Crouch Strafe - 1.91 Assault Amarr: Base Movement 4.85, Sprint -6.31(6.62with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 4.37, Crouch - 2.43, Crouch Strafe - 2.18 Caldari/Gallente: Base Movement - 5.0, Sprint - 6.5 (6.83with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 4.5, Crouch - 2.5, Crouch Strafe - 1.25 Minmatar: Base Movement - 5.15, Sprint -6.7(7.03with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 4.64, Crouch - 2.58, Crouch Strafe - 2.32 Scout Amarr: Base Movement 5.75, Sprint -7.48(7.85with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 5.18, Crouch - 2.88, Crouch Strafe - 2.59 Caldari/Gallente: Base Movement - 5.9, Sprint - 7.67 (8.05with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 5.31, Crouch - 2.95, Crouch Strafe - 2.67 Minmatar: Base Movement - 6.05, Sprint -7.87(8.26with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 5.45, Crouch - 3.03, Crouch Strafe - 2.72 Now this should give Scouts back their speed advantage, and draw a definitive line between all thee Frames in regards to movement, with only a few changes to the other suits; Most notably the Mediums Frames dropping to current Logi speeds, and the Minnie Assault dropping by .15m. The reduction of Sprint Speed from 40% to 30% allows the Scout to have its speed buff, but still keep it under the threshold where the system can't handle it. When CCP fixes the issue of Scouts moving too fast to render properly, they can bump the sprint speed back to 40%. There still is the problem of GalScouts being able to out Speed Tank the Minnie, which I don't like, but the only solution I can think (that doesn't take away from what they already have), is to add a 2% bonus to Sprint Speed to the Minmatar Light Frame Skill. But then we'd have to figure out what bonuses to add to the other Frame Suits just to keep it balanced.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2013.10.09 22:18:00 - [2] - Quote Shameless Bump
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2013.10.09 22:35:00 - [3] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Gallente is faster than the Caldari. adjust it. According to the Market in game, the Gallente and Caldari Medium Frame, Logistics, and Assault Suits all move at the same speed (5m, and 7m for the Frame and Assault Suits and 4.7, and 6.58 for the Logi's). I just took that idea and applied to the other Frame suits as well. If you can tell me how much faster the Gallente suits are (and where you got that information), I'd be more than happy to adjust it.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2013.10.09 22:59:00 - [4] - Quote I wonder why they didn't mirror that concept in Dust? Like I said I'm not against making adjustments, I'd just like to have an idea what the adjustment should be.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2013.10.09 23:15:00 - [5] - Quote As I said, if CCP fixes the issue, then we can return to the 40% sprint speed (which would be awesome), but until then the adjustment is very minor. and probably unnoticeable. It is, unfortunately, also necessary in order to still give us the clear division between Suit Frames in regards to speed.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2013.10.10 17:07:00 - [6] - Quote Edited OP. Changed Sprint Speed to 35%. Added Racial speed variants to all suits
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 161	Posted - 2013.10.11 19:42:00 - [7] - Quote I have to admit, I was expecting a larger response from the Scout Community, as I believe the proposed changes are exactly what we've been asking for. As such, I think I'm going to keep this on the main page for awhile, in order to keep the idea fresh in peoples minds. As always, if anyone has any ideas for tweaks, and/or refinement, please feel free to share.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 161	Posted - 2013.10.11 20:12:00 - [8] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: I'll post it to scouts united. Maybe it'll get more responses. Gotta say, lovin the speed changes. I've done that as well, but I appreciate the help anyways.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 161	Posted - 2013.10.11 20:34:00 - [9] - Quote Phazoid wrote: i would love the changes to speed, the problem is that right now scouts have kind of adapted to put stealth before speed, now dont get me wrong if this was implemented i would probably jump around naked doing the helicopter out of sheer happiness I agree with you (especially about the jumping around part ), but I think that individual Scouts should be able to choose between Stealth Tanking and Speed Tanking. Implementing the speed changes would allow Mercs to choose for themselves what they want their particular fit to focus on.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 161	Posted - 2013.10.11 20:38:00 - [10] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Minmatar (at least Scout and Assault) suits should have an even slightly higher base to offset the fact that other racial suits with more low slots can easily speed tank better than them. I have no problem with other racials being better at speed tanking but they should have to near jeopardize their entire setup to achieve it. Yeah, that's always kind of bugged me that my GalScout can easily out run a Minnie because of the Low Slot discrepancy. That's why I made the suggestion about the possible Light Suit bonus; maybe have that be Minmatar Racial bonus for all Frame Suits? I'll keep you suggestion in mind, but I'd like to find another way to keep the Minnies the fastest suits on the map.

Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2013.10.11 22:44:00 - [11] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Good stuff, Hagintora. This thread reminds me of aeon amadi's "widen the speed gap" request. He concluded that if scouts can't be fast due to performance constraints, then medium frames should be made slower. Thanks, Shotty! I remember that thread, by the way. It actually planted the seed that led to this one.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 164	Posted - 2013.10.11 23:19:00 - [12] - Quote I've been thinking about Biotics, and Kincats, actually. Biotics gives a 1% per level increase to sprint speed, and Complex Kincats give a 12.6% increase to sprint speed (at Lvl 5). What if they were changed to effect Base Movement instead? As far as I can tell it wouldn't effect Sprint Speeds at all (I've run it through the math, and Sprint Speed stays the same regardless of which system you use), but it would obviously increase a Mercs Base Movement, and therefore their Strafe and Crouch Speeds as well. Now, while this seems like a good idea in my head, I'm not sure if it wouldn't make Scouts OP. I do like the idea of buffing Scouts based on their abilities (Stealth, and Speed), but it would give Scouts (GalScouts especially) Base Movements of 8m and above, with Level 5 Biotics and nothing but Kincats in the Low Slots. What do you think? Too much?
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 164	Posted - 2013.10.11 23:34:00 - [13] - Quote AfroSunshineY Consequence wrote: The reason this hasn't gotten a bigger response from the scout community is that nobody expects a change in scouts till what? 1.8 if we're lucky. But more likely 1.9 - maybe not till 2.0. 1.6 is going to be minor and 1.7 will be vehicles almost exclusively I would bet. Haven't you ever noticed that Scout threads never get a dev response? Don't you find it odd that the most clearly imbalanced suit in the game receives no attention from the developers? They have no plans for scouts - at least none that they have begun to implement or test. So they ignore us and hope we'll just keep playing. Also, it's a PIPE dream to think that they will slow down other suits to give scouts any sort of buff. Assaults/Logis would rage and since they're the majority they would get their way. The speed "buff" you proposed also wouldn't stop scouts from getting AR r@ped as assault turn speed would stay the same and for some reason ARs do the same amount of damage at 10m as they do at 70 m these days. Scouting is dead. And it will remain dead because scrubs in medium/heavy suits would complain if they couldn't get their easy kills on us. That's all. I would have to disagree that Assualts or Logi's would rage, as their speeds don't change hardly at all. Medium Frame Suits will have their speeds reduced to where Logi's are now, while Logi's speed would stay the same. The Assault Suit that will see the biggest change is the Minnie Assault, and even then it's only a reduction of .15m. The only thing that really changes is that the speed gap between Medium and Light Frame Suits has been increased. That, and the Racial differences, which people have been asking for anyway. I would also disagree that this wouldn't help Scouts against the dreaded AR, as Strafe Speeds are based off of Movement, it thereby increases a Scouts Strafing ability.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 165	Posted - 2013.10.12 03:28:00 - [14] - Quote To go into a little bit more detail with Biotics and Kincats effecting Base Movement, instead of just Sprint Speed, let's look at a comparison of the 2 Scouts suits already in game using the OP as the basis. OP Stats: Gallente: Base Movement - 5.95, Sprint - 8.03 (8.43 with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 5.36, Crouch - 2.98, Crouch Strafe - 2.68 Minmatar: Base Movement - 6.05, Sprint -8.17(8.58 with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 5.45, Crouch - 3.03, Crouch Strafe - 2.72 Biotics/Kincat Suggested Change: Gallente: Base Movement - 5.95 (Lvl 5 Biotics - 6.25), Sprint - 8.03 (8.43 with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 5.36 (Lvl 5 Biotics - 5.62), Crouch - 2.98 (Lvl 5 Biotics - 3.12), Crouch Strafe - 2.68 (Lvl 5 Biotics - 2.81) Minmatar: Base Movement - 6.05 (Lvl 5 Biotics - 6.35), Sprint - 8.17 (8.58 with Lvl 5 Biotics), Strafe - 5.45 (Lvl 5 Biotics - 5.72), Crouch - 3.03 (Lvl 5 Biotics - 3.18), Crouch Strafe - 2.72 (Lvl 5 Biotics - 2.86) *The underlined numbers show the change that this idea would produce, but notice how none of the Sprint Speeds change at all.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 165	Posted - 2013.10.12 21:02:00 - [15] - Quote bump
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 167	Posted - 2013.10.14 17:47:00 - [16] - Quote So I've been thinking about the idea to have Biotics, and Kincats, effect Base Movement instead of Sprint Speed, and the more I think about, the more I like the idea. I think this would really help all Light Frames survive a little longer on the battlefield. Since Strafe Speeds are based off of Base Movement it would make Scouts harder to hit (although still wafer thin). Something that we've been requesting for awhile. It would also help my Ninja Knifing brethren in that they would be better able to chase down their prey, while having their knives charged. Making them truly formidable in CQC again. Also, with the increased Base Speeds we'd be able to use out favored hit and run tactics more efficiently, as we'd be able to enter the battle, deal damage, and then leave again with the possibility of not getting killed by the first person to land a clean shot. Since Sprinting is interrupted by changing mags, firing, switching equipment ,etc., the increased speeds would allow us to do these things without the need for Sprinting, or using our precious stamina. Like I said, I'm going to try to keep this page up for awhile, so feel free to help out by posting a +1, or leaving like.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 168	Posted - 2013.10.15 08:34:00 - [17] - Quote bump
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 168	Posted - 2013.10.17 04:52:00 - [18] - Quote bump
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 170	Posted - 2013.10.17 23:51:00 - [19] - Quote Shamefully shameless bumb
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 171	Posted - 2013.10.19 14:20:00 - [20] - Quote Bump

Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 172	Posted - 2013.11.15 07:19:00 - [21] - Quote Bumping an old thread because I still think this needs to be done. Or something like it, anyway.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 176	Posted - 2014.01.21 14:35:00 - [22] - Quote Dusting off an old thread here. Just seeing how people feel about it in relation to the changes coming in 1.8.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 189	Posted - 2014.02.13 05:46:00 - [23] - Quote I still want this
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 189	Posted - 2014.02.13 06:30:00 - [24] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: +1 for do want. Edit: What about logis? Same speed as medium frame? Yes. Sentinels, Logi's, and the up and coming SoonTM Pilot Suits would share the speed of the Base Frame.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 236	Posted - 2014.02.25 03:04:00 - [25] - Quote Bumping this again as a reply to a lot of the complaints I'm seeing in regards to the Amarr Scouts base speed.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2014.02.25 03:54:00 - [26] - Quote Unless my math is completely wrong (and it could be, some one might want to double check), then we're looking at a .55 Maximum Speed increase. The fastest suit in the game, due to slot layout, is the Gallente Scout, which has a maximum speed (with Level 5 Biotics, Level 5 KinKats, and 4 Complex Reds) of 11.14 mps while sprinting. The new maximum (assuming skills don't change) will be 11.69 mps while sprinting. It's not really something I'm worried about due to the fitting requirements of KinKats at that level.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 251	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:10:00 - [27] - Quote Beren Hurin also has some fantastic ideas about altering things like turn speed, backpedallng, and strafe speed bonuses that will really make each race feel unique.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 261	Posted - 2014.03.01 07:57:00 - [28] - Quote Beren Hurin said he's working on a chart that will map out all of the modifiers to pretty much everything associated with movement and agility. When he's posted that I'll start adding them the OP. Then we'll have different races with different turn speeds and different strafe speeds, as well as different base and sprint speeds. Once they been applied (according to each races combat philosophy), we'll really feel the difference between them. I can't wait to see what he's got.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 262	Posted - 2014.03.01 08:42:00 - [29] - Quote Much appreciated, and until then I intend to keep this thread alive for as long as I can. On a side note, if anybody wants to post the combat philosopies of the different races, or links to where I can find this information, it would be much appreciated. I have never played EVE so I don't have a lot to go on besides what Dust has provided, and I would like to do this right. Thank you in advance to whoever helps out.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 290	Posted - 2014.03.08 10:17:00 - [30] - Quote Decided to include vehicle speeds as well. Put it on the first page to consolidate information. Let me know what you think.