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Talos Vagheitan
King Slayers
67
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Posted - 2013.10.08 14:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but it's a very serious issue.
I recently convinced two friends to give Dust a shot. Both like the game, but are furious and on the verge of quitting over constantly being pub stomped by full squads of proto's, such as Nyain San, or Hellstorm as was the case last night.
Both of these corps were playing Ambush mode of all things, purely to farm high K/D against hordes of militia blueberries.
This is unsportsmanlike, and terrible for the survival of this game. Nobody wants to deal with that, especially fresh new players.
My solution:
Sort Pub matches by SP of players.
<5 mil SP
5-10 Mil SP
10- 15 Mil
>15 Mil.
Where applicable of course. In the case of mixed squads, the SP of the highest ranking member of squad would be used, as to not bring squads of Proto's down tiers. If squads want to bring a blueberry up to play with the big boys, then that's fine, but not the other way around. One possible drawback, is that this may increase wait times to find games. But better to have a longer wait for more balanced games I say. |
Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
159
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Posted - 2013.10.08 14:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
New players just need a chance to get acclimated, Academy should last until someone hits 6 mil, there should also be a fix to not let alts join academy if you have a character over like 10 mil by recognizing IP address or something. Other than that maybe try to balance but I'd still like a little flexibility. With this setup I'd only be fighting people from nyain san or teamplayers or ancient exiles or sver and so would people in my squad who are no-where near 15 mil, that would make us want to rage quit lol. I still get proto stomped because I don't run with a proto suit or a proto squad, I'm good but I'm also trying to make a profit lol. |
Talos Vagheitan
King Slayers
67
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Posted - 2013.10.08 15:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:New players just need a chance to get acclimated, Academy should last until someone hits 6 mil, there should also be a fix to not let alts join academy if you have a character over like 10 mil by recognizing IP address or something. Other than that maybe try to balance but I'd still like a little flexibility. With this setup I'd only be fighting people from nyain san or teamplayers or ancient exiles or sver and so would people in my squad who are no-where near 15 mil, that would make us want to rage quit lol. I still get proto stomped because I don't run with a proto suit or a proto squad, I'm good but I'm also trying to make a profit lol.
Sorry, are you making a counter-proposal? Or are you denying that this is an issue. You say that you would rage quit if you had to face full Proto squads all the time, yet you expect blueberries to??
This isn't about you. Whether you care to admit it or not, this nonsense is hurting the game. New players are being turned away because of insanely imbalanced matches they are faced with right off the bat. If you are an experienced player with good gear, that's what you should also be matched up against. |
KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
794
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Posted - 2013.10.08 16:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
I would like to add that lifetime SP is not the issue. Allocated SP is. There are many running around with unspent SP waiting for the vehicle changes or saving up for a lvl 5 Proto suit. |
Talos Vagheitan
King Slayers
67
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Posted - 2013.10.08 17:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:I would like to add that lifetime SP is not the issue. Allocated SP is. There are many running around with unspent SP waiting for the vehicle changes or saving up for a lvl 5 Proto suit.
Fair enough. That's a valid point, and something that could easily be factored in.
Hopefully the new Squad Finder helps with this a bit... but I doubt it will be enough on its own |
Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
483
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Posted - 2013.10.08 17:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Horrible idea, having 22 milion ish SP among three characters why should my lowest SP character have to deal with playing with other low SP characters. |
Talos Vagheitan
King Slayers
68
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Posted - 2013.10.08 17:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Horrible idea, having 22 milion ish SP among three characters why should my lowest SP character have to deal with playing with other low SP characters.
Ok, I take it you have a suggestion of your own? Or you think there is no issue at all with the imbalance of matchmaking.
Again, you'll have to realize this isn't about you or your characters. This is about the experience for new players coming into the game. Dust is losing a large chunk of player base who don't have fun being pubstomped game after game. If you feel the quality of the game needs to suffer so that you don't have to "deal with" low SP characters (which is missing the point of this entirely) then you are sorely mistaken. This whole idea is to make it harder for your highest SP character to drop down and murder militia's.
So once again, I'd like to really drive this point home: This is not about you. ;) |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
371
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Posted - 2013.10.08 18:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
If there are Hordes of militia red berries, they will be made into wine whatever the suit we use. Sorry your friends feel but hurt but how do you think we learned to play this game in the first place? We have all been there. Welcome to New Eden.
I don't support SP based Pub Matchmaking in any way. They are meant to be one sided matches, with many losses on the enemy side. Try using some sort of tactics to assault the enemy, running solo as a squad is a sure way to die. |
Talos Vagheitan
King Slayers
70
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Posted - 2013.10.09 04:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:If there are Hordes of militia red berries, they will be made into wine whatever the suit we use. Sorry your friends feel but hurt but how do you think we learned to play this game in the first place? We have all been there. Welcome to New Eden.
I don't support SP based Pub Matchmaking in any way. They are meant to be one sided matches, with many losses on the enemy side. Try using some sort of tactics to assault the enemy, running solo as a squad is a sure way to die.
Hey, I understand that you feel your KD is more important than the welfare of this game. It's not. But you're entitled to feel that it is ;) And let's make something else clear: The state of pubstomping has/will continue to get worse for new players until CCP does something about it, so it wasn't like you went through the exact same thing players today are. "They are meant to be one sided" Wrong. You wouldn't stick around either if you had to lose game after game... And I imagine someone like you would quit anyways, if CCP prevented you from KD farming fresh players.
Anyways. That's as simple as I can explain it. Use your head |
Axelius Argento
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2013.10.09 06:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
One of the most fun matches I've played was when we won with only 1 pixel left on the MCC health bar. That game was a real challenge, where we took over key points, lost them, took them back, made a stand, ninja other key points, etc etc.
Matches like those are what make your blood pump, seeing you're equal with your enemy, and the game can roll either way. Pubstomping doesn't give you that. At some point, the loosing side is going to give up, and just camp on the red line, waiting for the timer to end. Games like that will come to a crawl, and no thrill will come out of it, for both sides.
They need to implement balanced matches, yes, but I don't think it's as simple as "Group by SP". Say you got 20 mil SP and got proto gear and all that. But you can't afford using proto gear all the time, so once in a while you play with cheap/free gear to earn some ISK, to balance the proto gear expense. But if it's "Group by SP", you'll end up with playing with other proto gear people. So while you run around with militia gear, everyone else is gunning you down with proto gear. And as you said, dying over and over again because your opponent is wearing superior gear is no fun.
So, sorting pub matches with only SP is simplifying it too much. But perhaps divide matches into categories where they allow only types of gear like "Militia gear only" or "Advanced and lower tier gear only". Fittings containing higher tier gear will become red and not usable in that match. You want to run around with your proto gear? Join "Proto gear" matches. Off course, if you have lots of SP you'll have an advantage in skills, like more armor or shield or weapon proficiency. But it's better for new players to run into a player with 25% more armor then into someone with 25% more armor AND 3x complex armor plates AND 3x complex damage modifiers.
Or, maybe a sorting with the combination of both gear and SP. The problem is, with the current numbers of players, the waiting queue is going to take a while... |
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Talos Vagheitan
King Slayers
70
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Posted - 2013.10.09 06:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Axelius Argento wrote:One of the most fun matches I've played was when we won with only 1 pixel left on the MCC health bar. That game was a real challenge, where we took over key points, lost them, took them back, made a stand, ninja other key points, etc etc.
Matches like those are what make your blood pump, seeing you're equal with your enemy, and the game can roll either way. Pubstomping doesn't give you that. At some point, the loosing side is going to give up, and just camp on the red line, waiting for the timer to end. Games like that will come to a crawl, and no thrill will come out of it, for both sides.
They need to implement balanced matches, yes, but I don't think it's as simple as "Group by SP". Say you got 20 mil SP and got proto gear and all that. But you can't afford using proto gear all the time, so once in a while you play with cheap/free gear to earn some ISK, to balance the proto gear expense. But if it's "Group by SP", you'll end up with playing with other proto gear people. So while you run around with militia gear, everyone else is gunning you down with proto gear. And as you said, dying over and over again because your opponent is wearing superior gear is no fun.
So, sorting pub matches with only SP is simplifying it too much. But perhaps divide matches into categories where they allow only types of gear like "Militia gear only" or "Advanced and lower tier gear only". Fittings containing higher tier gear will become red and not usable in that match. You want to run around with your proto gear? Join "Proto gear" matches. Off course, if you have lots of SP you'll have an advantage in skills, like more armor or shield or weapon proficiency. But it's better for new players to run into a player with 25% more armor then into someone with 25% more armor AND 3x complex armor plates AND 3x complex damage modifiers.
Or, maybe a sorting with the combination of both gear and SP. The problem is, with the current numbers of players, the waiting queue is going to take a while...
I'm glad you acknowledge this issue. I can only laugh at "this game is meant to be unbalanced" type comments for so long.
But while you think I am over-simplifying this solution, I honestly think you are over-complicating it. Restricting equipment specifically in matches would turn out more annoying than helpful. Don't you have any backup suits at the supply depot to switch to ever? And what about all the non-proto gear a player has equipped to proto dropsuits?
Honestly, it's not the proto gear itself that makes pubstomping possible. If a full squad of experienced players entered an ambush mode in militia gear too, the result really wouldn't be much different. Very experienced players tend to have certain things in common.
1.) Very good Dropsuit Fittings 2.) They tend to squad up with other players regularly 3.) Extensive knowledge maps, gameplay features, strategies etc...
Put that up against blueberry rabble that's learning the game and you'll get the same result every time, regardless of who's wearing what equipment. So strictly restricting suits in matches wouldn't solve anything. The best way to level the playing field is to sort people by their level of experience.
Yes certain individuals would try to cheat the system. Perhaps create an ALT strictly for the purpose of entering low SP tier'd pub matches, although that would only last so long. The system would work out vastly better than the counter-productive one we currently have.
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Chumlee Chummington
Red Star. EoN.
14
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Posted - 2013.10.09 07:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
An sp based matchmaker would be a perfect solution to all of our current imbalance issues. However, the sad truth is that we simply do not have enough players on at any given time for it to work. It seems like out of the 2500 average players on, 500 do nothing but afk farm, and another 500 are completely ********.
The writing is on the wall for dust. Ccp has about a month to figure out how to keep the remaining 2500 here and at the same time try to attract new players. Otherwise balanced matchmaking will be a moot point. |
Talos Vagheitan
King Slayers
70
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Posted - 2013.10.09 16:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Chumlee Chummington wrote:An sp based matchmaker would be a perfect solution to all of our current imbalance issues. However, the sad truth is that we simply do not have enough players on at any given time for it to work. It seems like out of the 2500 average players on, 500 do nothing but afk farm, and another 500 are completely ********.
The writing is on the wall for dust. Ccp has about a month to figure out how to keep the remaining 2500 here and at the same time try to attract new players. Otherwise balanced matchmaking will be a moot point.
When I fire up the game, I tend to see way more than 2500 online on the tranq. server, am I reading something wrong? Right now it says 35000...
Anyways, the SP sorting would also be a "first choice" type system, would it first look for games with people of your SP level, and after 30 seconds or so if one is not found then chuck you in the next level up (or down)
Unfortunately, this would increase wait times a bit. So we'd likely be walking around in the war barge again waiting for the teams to be sorted out. Still better than the system now though.
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Chumlee Chummington
Red Star. EoN.
15
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Posted - 2013.10.10 07:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
35,000 including eve players. I know, this number used to confuse me too. |
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