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The-Errorist
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
263
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Posted - 2013.10.07 22:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Having players specialized into weapon sets instead of specific weapons would make them much more versatile and lead to more interesting battles. It maintains the depth of the skill tree, while simultaneously providing players more to play with; thus making Dust 514 more fun.
Get rid of light weapon operation and weaponry then add racial weaponry operation skills that unlocks ALL light weapons of a race. Weaponry was just an SP sink anyway.
Amarr light weapon operation: Decrease CPU usage of Amarr light weapons by 3%. Unlocks all Amarr light weapons. Caldari light weapon operation: Decrease CPU usage of Caldari light weapons by 3%. Unlocks all Caldari light weapons. Gallente light weapon operation: Decrease CPU usage of Gallente light weapons by 3%. Unlocks all Gallente light weapons. Minmatar light weapon operation: Decrease CPU usage of Minmatar light weapons by 3%. Unlocks all Minmatar light weapons.
The racial light weapon skill should be as SP intensive as the current Light Weapon Operation skill.
This should be done for sidearm and heavy weapons too. For example, Caldari Sidearm Operation should unlock magsec SMG, bolt pistol, and nova knives as well as decrease their CPU usage per level.
Lv 1 - Unlocks standard weapons Lv 2 - Unlocks standard variants Lv 3 - Unlocks advanced weapons Lv 4 - Unlocks advanced variants Lv 5 (+ Lv1 Weapon specific Operation Skill) - Unlocks prototype weapons Lv 5 (+ Lv2 Weapon specific Operation Skill) - Unlocks prototype variants. Lv 5 (+ Lv3 Weapon specific Operation Skill) - Unlocks officer weapons.
The specific weapon operation skills unlock prototype variants instead of the proficiency skill. For example, the Duvolle Tactical AR would be unlocked by Gallente Light Weapon Operation Lv5 + Assault Rilfe Operation Lv2.
The existing specific weapon operation skills could be renamed. For example, the Assault Rifle operation could be renamed to Assault Rifle Recoil Reduction. (This is not an necessary change)
The specific weapon operation skills would still branch out into the same skills that they currently do right now. For example, Assault Rifle Operation (could be renamed Assault Rifle Recoil Reduction) would still branch out into Assault Rifle Proficiency, Reload Speed, etc.
As promised, here's a diagram. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6469
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Posted - 2013.10.07 22:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
I like this idea. +1 |
Dominus Fatali
Nox Aeterna Security
345
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Posted - 2013.10.07 22:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Reload Skills in the diagram all read 'Rail Rifle Reload Skill'. |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
415
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Posted - 2013.10.07 22:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd like to see the tree like this too to encourage racial specialization. I think we're going to have to wait for a lot more weapons to come out before we see this though. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire
390
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Posted - 2013.10.07 22:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
fitting should be swapped with proficiency.
fitting skills is redundant in its current place |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4443
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Posted - 2013.10.07 22:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Looks like a solid idea. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2681
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Posted - 2013.10.07 22:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
It would make more sense if the weapons were finished (AV, etc.), but there's an issue introduced by "getting rid of weaponry" as you say. Since it also serves to unlock Sidearms and Heavy weapons, so this works as just a light weapon solution.
Your plan would also make for inflated costs for some sidearms and heavy weapons relative to other races, as a "Minmatar Heavy Weapon Operation" would only be good for one weapon, and likewise for an "Amarr Sidearm Operation". |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire
390
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Posted - 2013.10.07 22:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:It would make more sense if the weapons were finished (AV, etc.), but there's an issue introduced by "getting rid of weaponry" as you say. Since it also serves to unlock Sidearms and Heavy weapons, so this works as just a light weapon solution.
Your plan would also make for inflated costs for some sidearms and heavy weapons relative to other races, as a "Minmatar Heavy Weapon Operation" would only be good for one weapon, and likewise for an "Amarr Sidearm Operation".
you could just incorporate all racial weapons into the same tree. and branch off from that.
to offset some of the massive increase in sp over the whole weapons tree certain skills could be universal in their own tree such as ammo capacity.
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The-Errorist
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
264
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Posted - 2013.10.07 22:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:It would make more sense if the weapons were finished (AV, etc.), but there's an issue introduced by "getting rid of weaponry" as you say. Since it also serves to unlock Sidearms and Heavy weapons, so this works as just a light weapon solution.
Your plan would also make for inflated costs for some sidearms and heavy weapons relative to other races, as a "Minmatar Heavy Weapon Operation" would only be good for one weapon, and likewise for an "Amarr Sidearm Operation". Dust 514 is planed to have more than heavy weapon per race. Also what do you mean it would inflate costs relative to other races? |
The-Errorist
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
264
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Posted - 2013.10.07 23:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dominus Fatali wrote:The Reload Skills in the diagram all read 'Rail Rifle Reload Skill'. They don't. |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6469
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Posted - 2013.10.07 23:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:It would make more sense if the weapons were finished (AV, etc.), but there's an issue introduced by "getting rid of weaponry" as you say. Since it also serves to unlock Sidearms and Heavy weapons, so this works as just a light weapon solution.
Your plan would also make for inflated costs for some sidearms and heavy weapons relative to other races, as a "Minmatar Heavy Weapon Operation" would only be good for one weapon, and likewise for an "Amarr Sidearm Operation". More sidearms and likely more heavy weapons per race are likely planned (I'm sure each race will have at least 2 heavy weapons by the next 5 yrs). There are the racial knives, and it seems that every race will eventually have their own SMGs (Caldari will get magsec SMG) in addition to the pistols. I don't get the problem with removing weaponry, just jump straight into the racial sidearm operation to get the racial sidearm(s) you want. Same for heavy weapon.
Also to the OP, what level racial set skill should be required to get the weapon specific operation skills? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2682
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Posted - 2013.10.07 23:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:It would make more sense if the weapons were finished (AV, etc.), but there's an issue introduced by "getting rid of weaponry" as you say. Since it also serves to unlock Sidearms and Heavy weapons, so this works as just a light weapon solution.
Your plan would also make for inflated costs for some sidearms and heavy weapons relative to other races, as a "Minmatar Heavy Weapon Operation" would only be good for one weapon, and likewise for an "Amarr Sidearm Operation". Dust 514 is planed to have more than heavy weapon per race. Also what do you mean it would inflate costs relative to other races?
At the moment, there isn't even a projected date for a heavy weapon for each race. After that, I don't suspect additional heavy weapons will be coming any quicker. This could mean that Amarr Heavy W Operation/etc. will effectively be skills to unlock single weapon for a very long time.
The sidearm skills have similar issues in a lack of scope across the various races. If you go back to the weapon range/damage profile blog, the only listed sidearm for Amarr is the Scrambler Pistol. At some point, we're due to get the Magsec, Ion, and Bolt Pistols, but nothing else was on their roadmap at the point which they made that chart (where the missing Heavy Weapons were just called "TBA").
So, assume they finish adding all the weapons that were on that "plan", Amarr Sidearm Op: Scrambler Pistol (one weapon), Gallente: Ion Pistol (one weapon), Caldari: Magsec, Bolt, Nova Knife (3 weapons), Minmatar: SMG, Flaylock (2 weapons). That's just going from their projected work as well. This means that the relative value of skills is uneven, with Amarr Sidearm getting you one weapons, and Caldari getting you three.
This exist to a lesser extent with light weapons. You listed basically everything they've shown as planned so far. If things weren't even in the concept at fanfest or when that dev blog was released, then it doesn't speak well for them releasing anytime soon since we still have received weapons that they were using in internal matches before fanfest (half a year ago). So, an Amarr Light Op skill unlocks 2 weapons, and... same deal. Races that have more complete weapon sets have more valuable skills. We haven't heard a peep about any other Amarr light weapons or sidearms (unless you count the other racial knives) - that could be a LOOOONG wait for parity.
That's what I meant by it would work better if they'd finished the weapons. Until that point, it favors races with more complete content. |
The-Errorist
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
264
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Posted - 2013.10.07 23:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:It would make more sense if the weapons were finished (AV, etc.), but there's an issue introduced by "getting rid of weaponry" as you say. Since it also serves to unlock Sidearms and Heavy weapons, so this works as just a light weapon solution.
Your plan would also make for inflated costs for some sidearms and heavy weapons relative to other races, as a "Minmatar Heavy Weapon Operation" would only be good for one weapon, and likewise for an "Amarr Sidearm Operation". More sidearms and likely more heavy weapons per race are likely planned (I'm sure each race will have at least 2 heavy weapons by the next 5 yrs). There are the racial knives, and it seems that every race will eventually have their own SMGs (Caldari will get magsec SMG) in addition to the pistols. I don't get the problem with removing weaponry, just jump straight into the racial sidearm operation to get the racial sidearm(s) you want. Same for heavy weapon. Also to the OP, what level racial set skill should be required to get the weapon specific operation skills? Level 3 should unlock weapon specific operation skills. |
The-Errorist
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
264
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 23:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:fitting should be swapped with proficiency.
fitting skills is redundant in its current place
first step is unlocking the weapon, the second step should be working it into your build and then last step should be to increase its damage output. I like that idea and made diagram with that. |
The-Errorist
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
265
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 00:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:It would make more sense if the weapons were finished (AV, etc.), but there's an issue introduced by "getting rid of weaponry" as you say. Since it also serves to unlock Sidearms and Heavy weapons, so this works as just a light weapon solution.
Your plan would also make for inflated costs for some sidearms and heavy weapons relative to other races, as a "Minmatar Heavy Weapon Operation" would only be good for one weapon, and likewise for an "Amarr Sidearm Operation". Dust 514 is planed to have more than heavy weapon per race. Also what do you mean it would inflate costs relative to other races? At the moment, there isn't even a projected date for a heavy weapon for each race. After that, I don't suspect additional heavy weapons will be coming any quicker. This could mean that Amarr Heavy W Operation/etc. will effectively be skills to unlock single weapon for a very long time. The sidearm skills have similar issues in a lack of scope across the various races. If you go back to the weapon range/damage profile blog, the only listed sidearm for Amarr is the Scrambler Pistol. At some point, we're due to get the Magsec, Ion, and Bolt Pistols, but nothing else was on their roadmap at the point which they made that chart (where the missing Heavy Weapons were just called "TBA"). So, assume they finish adding all the weapons that were on that "plan", Amarr Sidearm Op: Scrambler Pistol (one weapon), Gallente: Ion Pistol (one weapon), Caldari: Magsec, Bolt, Nova Knife (3 weapons), Minmatar: SMG, Flaylock (2 weapons). That's just going from their projected work as well. This means that the relative value of skills is uneven, with Amarr Sidearm getting you one weapons, and Caldari getting you three. Thats CCP's fault for giving the Caldari that many sidearms before any other race.
Zeylon Rho wrote:This exist to a lesser extent with light weapons. You listed basically everything they've shown as planned so far. If things weren't even in the concept at fanfest or when that dev blog was released, then it doesn't speak well for them releasing anytime soon since we still have received weapons that they were using in internal matches before fanfest (half a year ago). So, an Amarr Light Op skill unlocks 2 weapons, and... same deal. Races that have more complete weapon sets have more valuable skills. We haven't heard a peep about any other Amarr light weapons or sidearms (unless you count the other racial knives) - that could be a LOOOONG wait for parity.
That's what I meant by it would work better if they'd finished the weapons. Until that point, it favors races with more complete content. We shouldn't have to wait 2+ years for CCP to finish what they promised before getting better skill tree.
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Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
139
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Posted - 2013.10.08 00:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
I like this idea.
It requires the weapon tree to be fully fleshed out though.
I'd go a step further and nest sidearm, light and heavy weapons under another racial weapon skill. |
The-Errorist
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
266
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 00:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Garth Mandra wrote:I like this idea.
It requires the weapon tree to be fully fleshed out though.
I'd go a step further and nest sidearm, light and heavy weapons under another racial weapon skill. I kinda like them being separated. If this does happen though, I wouldn't really care that much. |
Dominus Fatali
Nox Aeterna Security
368
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Dominus Fatali wrote:The Reload Skills in the diagram all read 'Rail Rifle Reload Skill'. They don't. Some do when I look at the diagram (Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon, and Swarm Launcher). Also, Rail Rifle Ammo Capacity appears for Snipper Riffles. |
The-Errorist
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
302
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Posted - 2013.10.17 03:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dominus Fatali wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Dominus Fatali wrote:The Reload Skills in the diagram all read 'Rail Rifle Reload Skill'. They don't. Some do when I look at the diagram (Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon, and Swarm Launcher). Also, Rail Rifle Ammo Capacity appears for Snipper Riffles. Gdrive must have not saved some changes I made back then. Those problems should be fixed now. |
The-Errorist
Closed For Business For All Mankind
402
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Posted - 2013.12.20 06:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
I still very much support this idea. |
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
818
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 06:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
No thanks. It should be:
Hybrid Weapon Operation --->[Weapon] Operation Laser Weapon Operation --->[Weapon] Operation Projectile Weapon Operation --->[Weapon] Operation Missile Weapon Operation --->[Weapon] Operation
And get rid of the separate Sidearm and Heavy Weapon skills altogether.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage looks nicer.
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Talos Vagheitan
300
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 06:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Actually an awesome idea. We definitely need more to make the races more unique, although to be honest, this won't really be feasible until all the racial weapon variants are in the game.
I would like to see people able to spec into a 'group' of weapons though, add some more diversity, make weapons less of an SP sink etc.
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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The-Errorist
Closed For Business For All Mankind
403
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 06:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:No thanks. It should be:
Hybrid Weapon Operation --->[Weapon] Operation Laser Weapon Operation --->[Weapon] Operation Projectile Weapon Operation --->[Weapon] Operation Missile Weapon Operation --->[Weapon] Operation
And get rid of the separate Sidearm and Heavy Weapon skills altogether. Great idea. |
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