DUST Search - [Request] Warpoints based on suit disparity in pubs

Maken Tosch wrote:

Draco Cerberus wrote:

At the moment I think this would not help one bit. You can fit advanced mods to a militia suit and a proto suit with militia mods and then it is not all one or the other. The reward process after calculating a suit + gear meta level then assigning WP based on it means that it would be more rewarding to run Militia gear than proto, rewarding lazy players (not willing to skill) with better payouts and SP and totally unbalancing the game.

But as a positive consequence to that, the proto players will then start wearing lower tier suits to deprive the enemy of extra points. It will naturally balance out eventually as players start realizing the dying in a proto suit to a militia suit will grant the enemy too many points.

But I have to agree that the points added/subtracted according to the OP is too extreme. I would say about +/- 7 WP change according to the disparity. This way there will only be a maximum gain/loss of 21 WP as supposed to a gain/loss of 45 WP.

I also agree that this should have no effect in faction warfare or PC battles. For those, 50 WP regardless of tier disparity.

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Leovarian L Lavitz Better Academy. 731	Posted - 2013.10.04 20:40:00 - [1] - Quote Warpoints based on suit disparity means that you get the current +50 when you are fighting a suit of the same tier as yours. If you kill a suit one tier higher, you get +15 warpoints per tier in addition to the +50, so a militia suit killing a proto would get + 95 warpoints. If you kill a suit a tier lower, you get -15 warpoints per tier, so a proto suit killing a militia suit would get 5 warpoints. I feel that this would contribute greatly to balancing public matches while still rewarding both old and new players. I do not recommend this for faction warfare or planetary conquest. [+50 base +15 standard +15 adv +15 proto = +95 warpoints] **[+50 base +(-15)ADV +(-15)Standard +(-15)militia = +5 warpoints]
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 18	Posted - 2013.10.04 20:57:00 - [2] - Quote I don't support the second half, it would encourage people to never ever ever run proto,which means people don't care about those and don't buy boosters to support ccp and support dust But on bonus wp I would like to see this I think it should be 50+ opponents meta lvl
Leovarian L Lavitz Better Academy. 732	Posted - 2013.10.04 21:04:00 - [3] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: I don't support the second half, it would encourage people to never ever ever run proto,which means people don't care about those and don't buy boosters to support ccp and support dust But on bonus wp I would like to see this I think it should be 50+ opponents meta lvl I disagree, it would not discourage proto use, many people prefer winning fights, however, this would also encourage advanced suit use over protos which would also bring about vastly more balanced matches, imo.
Jadek Menaheim warravens League of Infamy 124	Posted - 2013.10.04 21:22:00 - [4] - Quote [Repost from Dev Discussion] While this could create some balance, the differences in tiers feels too extreme. I would only recommend a 5pt increase per level if anything. Additionally, and this is a big point, WP based on suit disparity would highly encourage more players to choose the role of the sniper. Simply theorycrafting here, a high proficiency Std. Minmatar Assault can fit a Charge Sniper 2x Complex Dmg Mods, 1x Enh Dmg Mod, Complex CPU, and 1x X-3 Quantum Nanohive. This highly economized suit can output over 450 dmg per shot from over 400 meters with 30 additional rounds to spare before resupply. Again these figures are calculated on a high SP character. Tl:DR; a prevalence of snipers may not encourage a variety of gameplay interactions.
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 360	Posted - 2013.10.04 21:36:00 - [5] - Quote At the moment I think this would not help one bit. You can fit advanced mods to a militia suit and a proto suit with militia mods and then it is not all one or the other. The reward process after calculating a suit + gear meta level then assigning WP based on it means that it would be more rewarding to run Militia gear than proto, rewarding lazy players (not willing to skill) with better payouts and SP and totally unbalancing the game.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 19	Posted - 2013.10.04 21:49:00 - [6] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: I don't support the second half, it would encourage people to never ever ever run proto,which means people don't care about those and don't buy boosters to support ccp and support dust But on bonus wp I would like to see this I think it should be 50+ opponents meta lvl I disagree, it would not discourage proto use, many people prefer winning fights, however, this would also encourage advanced suit use over protos which would also bring about vastly more balanced matches, imo. Not for pubs, 5 wp per kill definitely no no and nope, and wp is related to isk gain, it just wont work out
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4397	Posted - 2013.10.04 21:52:00 - [7] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: At the moment I think this would not help one bit. You can fit advanced mods to a militia suit and a proto suit with militia mods and then it is not all one or the other. The reward process after calculating a suit + gear meta level then assigning WP based on it means that it would be more rewarding to run Militia gear than proto, rewarding lazy players (not willing to skill) with better payouts and SP and totally unbalancing the game. But as a positive consequence to that, the proto players will then start wearing lower tier suits to deprive the enemy of extra points. It will naturally balance out eventually as players start realizing the dying in a proto suit to a militia suit will grant the enemy too many points. But I have to agree that the points added/subtracted according to the OP is too extreme. I would say about +/- 7 WP change according to the disparity. This way there will only be a maximum gain/loss of 21 WP as supposed to a gain/loss of 45 WP. I also agree that this should have no effect in faction warfare or PC battles. For those, 50 WP regardless of tier disparity.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 766	Posted - 2013.10.04 23:27:00 - [8] - Quote This is a very good idea IMO, for pub match balance at least. +1.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6414	Posted - 2013.10.05 01:46:00 - [9] - Quote I actually really like this idea.
Leovarian L Lavitz Better Academy. 735	Posted - 2013.10.05 03:50:00 - [10] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: At the moment I think this would not help one bit. You can fit advanced mods to a militia suit and a proto suit with militia mods and then it is not all one or the other. The reward process after calculating a suit + gear meta level then assigning WP based on it means that it would be more rewarding to run Militia gear than proto, rewarding lazy players (not willing to skill) with better payouts and SP and totally unbalancing the game. But as a positive consequence to that, the proto players will then start wearing lower tier suits to deprive the enemy of extra points. It will naturally balance out eventually as players start realizing the dying in a proto suit to a militia suit will grant the enemy too many points. But I have to agree that the points added/subtracted according to the OP is too extreme. I would say about +/- 7 WP change according to the disparity. This way there will only be a maximum gain/loss of 21 WP as supposed to a gain/loss of 45 WP. I also agree that this should have no effect in faction warfare or PC battles. For those, 50 WP regardless of tier disparity. That sounds great

Talos Vagheitan King Slayers 38	Posted - 2013.10.05 05:25:00 - [11] - Quote While I think this is a very good idea, I think a 15 WP spread between levels is a bit too much. Personally, I feel that 5 WP increase/decrease per suit level kill would be plenty. People running proto suits are already risking vastly more ISK than those running advanced or militia. I would also limit this idea strictly to pub matches. +1
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4439	Posted - 2013.10.07 20:40:00 - [12] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: While I think this is a very good idea, I think a 15 WP spread between levels is a bit too much. Personally, I feel that 5 WP increase/decrease per suit level kill would be plenty. People running proto suits are already risking vastly more ISK than those running advanced or militia. I would also limit this idea strictly to pub matches. +1 +/- 5 WP is too low in my opinion especially for the amount of effort put into trying to kill a proto with a militia. By that same token, the protostomper won't notice much a difference in the loss of points when killing a militia suit. +/- 7 WP is a good level for me. It's not too high and not too low and still leaves enough of a difference that it at least encourages suits of a certain tier to be a little more selective of their targets.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 3714	Posted - 2013.10.07 21:27:00 - [13] - Quote 5 WP for some kills wearing proto? That's far too low - There's a problem with pubstomping but that just kills it.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4443	Posted - 2013.10.07 22:38:00 - [14] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: 5 WP for some kills wearing proto? That's far too low - There's a problem with pubstomping but that just kills it. That's why I proposed +/- 7 WP. Even when killing a militia while wearing a proto will net you a nice 29 WP for the kill. Or a healthy 71 WP for the militia dude who kills you instead.
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 371	Posted - 2013.10.07 22:55:00 - [15] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: At the moment I think this would not help one bit. You can fit advanced mods to a militia suit and a proto suit with militia mods and then it is not all one or the other. The reward process after calculating a suit + gear meta level then assigning WP based on it means that it would be more rewarding to run Militia gear than proto, rewarding lazy players (not willing to skill) with better payouts and SP and totally unbalancing the game. But as a positive consequence to that, the proto players will then start wearing lower tier suits to deprive the enemy of extra points. It will naturally balance out eventually as players start realizing the dying in a proto suit to a militia suit will grant the enemy too many points. But I have to agree that the points added/subtracted according to the OP is too extreme. I would say about +/- 7 WP change according to the disparity. This way there will only be a maximum gain/loss of 21 WP as supposed to a gain/loss of 45 WP. I also agree that this should have no effect in faction warfare or PC battles. For those, 50 WP regardless of tier disparity. Thats not a positive consequence, especially when you look at sales of dropsuits in the future to make somewhat passive isk. Think about the market repercussions if no one bought a proto suit unless it was for a PC match. take into consideration that the WP gain should not be in favor of the little guy in the militia suit who is too cheap to fit better gear. The best game of his life...gotta love proto
Jackof All-Trades Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 195	Posted - 2013.10.08 09:54:00 - [16] - Quote This rewards for skill. I like it.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4502	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:59:00 - [17] - Quote Sneaky Ninja Bumps Thread in a Sneaky Way /woosh
Priss N6FAA2813 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:57:00 - [18] - Quote Sorry but this idea is flawed .This suggestion doesn't take into consideration of suit and module cost on top of that the people that wear proto usually will have wep proficiencies.This will add more fuel to the fire as far as nerfing BPO's by the f2p kids which I don not want to hear at all. In reality this only penalizes the risk reward factor as players who could wear proto just wont and if the communtiy act as a whole in a trend fasion so will everyone else just making every suit down one notch essentially so in 6 monthes they donet say proto stomp they say advanced stomp so it ultimately changes nothing. When you really look at it all the way across the board. It just simply is this"active player stomp" or "we cap every week stomp" There would be no reason really to unlock proto suits just the Lvl 5 which again is a passive skill which would apply even though your wearing advanced.... Gear really doesn't mean anything in this game its the other players sp which makes them have proficiencies and passive skills regardless of suit. Unfortunately for you your idea settles nothing, is flawed, and possibly biased.
Cosgar ParagonX 7364	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:02:00 - [19] - Quote I could get behind this. But instead of suit tier, base it on average meta level of your fitting. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 760	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:31:00 - [20] - Quote Another variation: Warpoints increased by the sum of all meta levels on the suit vrs the suit killed. if the enemy suit has a higher total meta level. No penalization for protos, bonus for skill. A proto suit with all proto mods and proto weapons would have a total meta level of 55 (suit + 3x high + 3x low + 1 equipment + 2 weapons + 1 grenade) A complete militia suit would have a meta level of 0, so the freeby suits would gain a bonus 55 points for killing the before mentioned suit. ( a 300 hp suit vrs a 1200 hp suit... hmmm; I feel this is a reasonable bonus). Maximum meta bonus is capped per tier, militia and standard can gain the full +55, advanced can gain maximum +20, and proto is + 15. (in addition to other wps)

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7166	Posted - 2013.11.20 20:10:00 - [21] - Quote Though I prefer tiercide, this idea is great. Would discourage pub stomping with protosuits. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
taxi bastard Minor Trueblood 18	Posted - 2013.11.21 07:59:00 - [22] - Quote as a ex heavy and currently training to be a logi bro I think that WP and isk payouts should differ. doing real logi work is a lot more profitable for me at least than ground and pound as I rake in the WP's through helping the squad. for me I think that if you kill a suit you should get 30% of its value in isk - and 15% percent for an assist. whatever remains should go into the central pool which should be split up 60% or the winners and 40% for the losers and tiered according to how much WP you have. currently their is not enough incentive to win besides pride....this will help. for orbitals the kills isk should be split according to the squads WP's - and there should not be any more WP accumulated through their use, nor should the kills be added to the squad leaders K/D ratio. starter fits should be banned from FW - or cost the user the same as a militia fit version. proto stomping is at its most tedious when your side gives up. with such an incentive you would be happy to throw some more 10k suits at the problem for the isk reward. at the end of the battle it should display isk lost per team and isk gained. seeing an economic victory in the face of a major stomping will make you even more hungry to fight again and not QQ about the stomp.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 132	Posted - 2013.11.21 10:46:00 - [23] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Warpoints based on suit disparity means that you get the current +50 when you are fighting a suit of the same tier as yours. If you kill a suit one tier higher, you get +15 warpoints per tier in addition to the +50, so a militia suit killing a proto would get + 95 warpoints. If you kill a suit a tier lower, you get -15 warpoints per tier, so a proto suit killing a militia suit would get 5 warpoints. I feel that this would contribute greatly to balancing public matches while still rewarding both old and new players. I do not recommend this for faction warfare or planetary conquest. [+50 base +15 standard +15 adv +15 proto = +95 warpoints] **[+50 base +(-15)ADV +(-15)Standard +(-15)militia = +5 warpoints EDIT: All numbers are placeholders, see following discussion for more balanced numbers (I personally feel that 7.5 points is fairly balanced) No. Will kill the game by killing the progression. What the point about trying to get proto/adv level if you can't use it then ? Stop thinking we must punish proto and give everything to Militia / STD...... Playing with proto is put your balls on the table it's taking high-risk. Playing with STD or militia it's kill the Game economy....
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 792	Posted - 2013.11.21 16:26:00 - [24] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Warpoints based on suit disparity means that you get the current +50 when you are fighting a suit of the same tier as yours. If you kill a suit one tier higher, you get +15 warpoints per tier in addition to the +50, so a militia suit killing a proto would get + 95 warpoints. If you kill a suit a tier lower, you get -15 warpoints per tier, so a proto suit killing a militia suit would get 5 warpoints. I feel that this would contribute greatly to balancing public matches while still rewarding both old and new players. I do not recommend this for faction warfare or planetary conquest. [+50 base +15 standard +15 adv +15 proto = +95 warpoints] [+50 base +(-15)ADV +(-15)Standard +(-15)militia = +5 warpoints EDIT: All numbers are placeholders, see following discussion for more balanced numbers (I personally feel that 7.5 points is fairly balanced) Quote:** Another variation: Warpoints increased by the sum of all meta levels on the suit vrs the suit killed. if the enemy suit has a higher total meta level. No penalization for protos, bonus for skill. A proto suit with all proto mods and proto weapons would have a total meta level of 55 (suit + 3x high + 3x low + 1 equipment + 2 weapons + 1 grenade) A complete militia suit would have a meta level of 0, so the freeby suits would gain a bonus 55 points for killing the before mentioned suit. ( a 300 hp suit vrs a 1200 hp suit... hmmm; I feel this is a reasonable bonus). Maximum meta bonus is capped per tier, militia and standard can gain the full +55, advanced can gain maximum +20, and proto is + 15. (in addition to other wps) Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.


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