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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1066
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 16:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Injector is THE piece of logistics equipment, correct? When you think of a healer in an FPS, it's usually the reviver, whether he has defibrillator paddle, a medkit, or a syringe. So why not just fuse the Injector into the Logistics Suit, like the Knife used to be a part of the melee system? It would make the need for a Logi easily apparent, as they would be the only unit capable of revives, and would work well with already established plans to alter the skill bonuses. Each Logi would have differing revive stats as well, if it fits your fancy. Otherwise just ignore this next bit, I just wanted to get yelled at today...
Caldari: Revives at 80% Shield, 20% Armor. This exemplifies the Caldari Shield focus, allowing Caldari Dropsuits to be brought back at a decent health value. Minmatar: Revives at 60% Shield, 40% Armor. Minmatar Dual Tank, but tent to rely on speed as well. This will allow Minmatars to be brought back with a decent buffer, as most have poor armor, but all have a small built in repper. Amarr: Revives at 60% Shield, 60% Armor. As the slowest and tankiest, but undecided on what tank they use, Amarr get the largest base heal at 120% total. This is to offset the Logi's far slower speed compared to most Logis, and it also paints itself as the starter Logi for Assaults wanting to branch out, what with it's even revive stats and sidearm. Gallente: Revives at 10% Shield, 100% Armor. As the creators of the tech and the highest Armor Focused race, Gallente get a base heal of 110% and a full-out Armor revitalization. They are also planned to get nanite Injector bonuses, so maybe they can change it to Active Scanners?
NOTE: I pulled these numbers out of my arse. Please feel free to debate what they should be, but try to make a post on the general subject. Whenever someone states numbers, real conversation and dialogue tends to get buried under the precise number debate, so please do not lose yourselves. |
Rinzler XVII
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
87
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 17:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:The Injector is THE piece of logistics equipment, correct? When you think of a healer in an FPS, it's usually the reviver, whether he has defibrillator paddle, a medkit, or a syringe. So why not just fuse the Injector into the Logistics Suit, like the Knife used to be a part of the melee system? It would make the need for a Logi easily apparent, as they would be the only unit capable of revives, and would work well with already established plans to alter the skill bonuses. Each Logi would have differing revive stats as well, if it fits your fancy. Otherwise just ignore this next bit, I just wanted to get yelled at today...
Caldari: Revives at 80% Shield, 20% Armor. This exemplifies the Caldari Shield focus, allowing Caldari Dropsuits to be brought back at a decent health value. Minmatar: Revives at 60% Shield, 40% Armor. Minmatar Dual Tank, but tent to rely on speed as well. This will allow Minmatars to be brought back with a decent buffer, as most have poor armor, but all have a small built in repper. Amarr: Revives at 60% Shield, 60% Armor. As the slowest and tankiest, but undecided on what tank they use, Amarr get the largest base heal at 120% total. This is to offset the Logi's far slower speed compared to most Logis, and it also paints itself as the starter Logi for Assaults wanting to branch out, what with it's even revive stats and sidearm. Gallente: Revives at 10% Shield, 100% Armor. As the creators of the tech and the highest Armor Focused race, Gallente get a base heal of 110% and a full-out Armor revitalization. They are also planned to get nanite Injector bonuses, so maybe they can change it to Active Scanners?
NOTE: I pulled these numbers out of my arse. Please feel free to debate what they should be, but try to make a post on the general subject. Whenever someone states numbers, real conversation and dialogue tends to get buried under the precise number debate, so please do not lose yourselves.
Logi's aren;t here solely to revive people who get killed, I only ever use an injector in ambush games where every clone revived counts ... its pointless in skirmish or domination because a well positioned uplink is better than being able to revive a fallen comrade ... if im completely honest my main equipment loadout is Uplink Nano and repper ... i have proto uplinks that slash spawning times by 65% and they are way more useful than an injector is
Furthermore alot of ppl simply respawn instead of waiting to be revived and is the main reason why i stopped using them .. i lost count of the number of times i ran to revive someone only to get there and find that they couldnt wait 5 seconds and respawned instead
Im a logi because I like the freedom to switch my equipment suits accordingly when the battle dictates that I need something ... if you force me to use an injector then you are basically forcing me to play a certain way ... why dont we make assault suit users only able to users AR's ? Make sniper rifles only usable with scout suits ?
When I run with a squad its usually the guys in Assault suits that have injectors because they know with me around ill rep them and it enables me to bring proto uplinks and nano's to battle instead of wasting it on a proto injector that restores 80% armour instead of 30% that the basic restore
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
151
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 18:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm all for saving an equipment slot and having a lifestick be a part of the suit itself but it's not necessarily true that all logis have to be medics. Sometimes I use my logistics suit to put down a ton of uplinks or nanohives, some people might fancy using a suit loaded out with remote explosives or throw in a scanner. Also I keep hearing that eventually the skills present in the logistics suit skill bonus are temporary and that they'll probably be replaced by things like nanohive resupply rate or repair tool efficacy, I don't think a nanite injector health bonus is too much of a stretch.
Getting back on topic, making the nanite injector a piece of equipment and not a feature of the logistics suit allows more flexibility with other suits and provides a good balance for logistics. If logis were the only ones who could have the injector then basically the game turns into battlefield where there are specific suit setups and no flexibility; also it would make logis superpowered by freeing up an equipment slot, with that setup I could heal people to full and have 2 more equipment slots to do whatever i want with...and that's with a basic suit. Now if I misinterpreted and you mean that an equipment slot should already be reserved for the injector, well again that just creates a lack of flexibility that will annoy alot of people.
In summary: No, logis can handle more equipment but making equipment biased towards or forced on one suit or another takes away from the customization factor that makes this game unique, they're already going to be removing the feature that forces tankers to have the 2 side gunners for the same reason. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5626
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 18:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
I like the idea, but I think this would be more fitting if we get another suit class that's completely medic oriented. |
lithkul devant
Legions of Infinite Dominion
92
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 20:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
So....basically you want the logi to be god? Bringer of life and death as they see fit, that we should all cower in fear of the all mighty proto logi. A logi isn't actually a medic, it doesn't even have to play like one, what it is, is a logistics unit, meaning it could be set up for infintry supprt and not use a single piece of gear that heals people, for example, uplink, active scanner, remote explosives for a logi set up this would actually be rather nice especially in the upcoming pack, you can decide where your team comes in, support the squad and team through active intel and mine the objectives with R/E or a walkway or something.
Their are multiple combinations logis can use, while your idea is good for having different ways a unit can be revived numerically, the idea that only logis should be able to heal doesn't exactly work out well in Dust as it is currently set up. Especially since you have to level up into logi to be able to use it new players would by your example have another tool denied to them, so in summary I can not support your idea. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
159
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 22:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:The Injector is THE piece of logistics equipment, correct? When you think of a healer in an FPS, it's usually the reviver, whether he has defibrillator paddle, a medkit, or a syringe. So why not just fuse the Injector into the Logistics Suit, like the Knife used to be a part of the melee system? It would make the need for a Logi easily apparent, as they would be the only unit capable of revives, and would work well with already established plans to alter the skill bonuses. Each Logi would have differing revive stats as well, if it fits your fancy. Otherwise just ignore this next bit, I just wanted to get yelled at today...
Caldari: Revives at 80% Shield, 20% Armor. This exemplifies the Caldari Shield focus, allowing Caldari Dropsuits to be brought back at a decent health value. Minmatar: Revives at 60% Shield, 40% Armor. Minmatar Dual Tank, but tent to rely on speed as well. This will allow Minmatars to be brought back with a decent buffer, as most have poor armor, but all have a small built in repper. Amarr: Revives at 60% Shield, 60% Armor. As the slowest and tankiest, but undecided on what tank they use, Amarr get the largest base heal at 120% total. This is to offset the Logi's far slower speed compared to most Logis, and it also paints itself as the starter Logi for Assaults wanting to branch out, what with it's even revive stats and sidearm. Gallente: Revives at 10% Shield, 100% Armor. As the creators of the tech and the highest Armor Focused race, Gallente get a base heal of 110% and a full-out Armor revitalization. They are also planned to get nanite Injector bonuses, so maybe they can change it to Active Scanners?
NOTE: I pulled these numbers out of my arse. Please feel free to debate what they should be, but try to make a post on the general subject. Whenever someone states numbers, real conversation and dialogue tends to get buried under the precise number debate, so please do not lose yourselves.
This is a cool idea. If we Logis are going to have to eat slot nerfs in the future (which would be justified, really), this would be a nice trade. As it is, I don't think logis need to be more awesome- scouts are the ones that really need the love. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
360
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 00:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
I can use a nanohive/injector, drop uplinks, remote explosives, active scanners, and repair tools (ughh). Out of all this equipment only the nano hives/injectors and repair tools are pieces of equipment that heal. Logistics involves taking care of supporting and supplying the team, not just being a medic. As such is the case, it is very important that a Logi use his or her wits to make tactical decisions about which equipment they bring to the battle. To me, a needle is a waste of space. Although it will save you a clone and a suit, it will often put the user in danger of lying down right next to the merc they are trying to revive. More often than not it is an assault player that will revive others, taking care of the enemies before revival is important and as such it makes more sense for a Logi to carry reps and ammo than a needle so that their squad can wipe out the enemy, revive the friend and allow the Logi to repair him while his squad is protecting their backs. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1066
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 04:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:The Injector is THE piece of logistics equipment, correct? When you think of a healer in an FPS, it's usually the reviver, whether he has defibrillator paddle, a medkit, or a syringe. So why not just fuse the Injector into the Logistics Suit, like the Knife used to be a part of the melee system? It would make the need for a Logi easily apparent, as they would be the only unit capable of revives, and would work well with already established plans to alter the skill bonuses. Each Logi would have differing revive stats as well, if it fits your fancy. Otherwise just ignore this next bit, I just wanted to get yelled at today...
Caldari: Revives at 80% Shield, 20% Armor. This exemplifies the Caldari Shield focus, allowing Caldari Dropsuits to be brought back at a decent health value. Minmatar: Revives at 60% Shield, 40% Armor. Minmatar Dual Tank, but tent to rely on speed as well. This will allow Minmatars to be brought back with a decent buffer, as most have poor armor, but all have a small built in repper. Amarr: Revives at 60% Shield, 60% Armor. As the slowest and tankiest, but undecided on what tank they use, Amarr get the largest base heal at 120% total. This is to offset the Logi's far slower speed compared to most Logis, and it also paints itself as the starter Logi for Assaults wanting to branch out, what with it's even revive stats and sidearm. Gallente: Revives at 10% Shield, 100% Armor. As the creators of the tech and the highest Armor Focused race, Gallente get a base heal of 110% and a full-out Armor revitalization. They are also planned to get nanite Injector bonuses, so maybe they can change it to Active Scanners?
NOTE: I pulled these numbers out of my arse. Please feel free to debate what they should be, but try to make a post on the general subject. Whenever someone states numbers, real conversation and dialogue tends to get buried under the precise number debate, so please do not lose yourselves. This is a cool idea. If we Logis are going to have to eat slot nerfs in the future (which would be justified, really), this would be a nice trade. As it is, I don't think logis need to be more awesome- scouts are the ones that really need the love.
That was the idea. It would allow them to make the suit a bit more Logistics focused, and they already have the Injector set to be useable without the equipment ever being equipped, so I thought it was a logical step along that progression. Alot of people here seem to be under the false impression that Logi are meant to be equipment mules, and it makes me sad. I used to play semi-competitive TF2 Medic and a Wormhole Scythe for a short period, so maybe I just have a hard time seeing outside of the pillbox, but I swear Logistics is EVEspeak for healer... |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1066
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 04:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:I can use a nanohive/injector, drop uplinks, remote explosives, active scanners, and repair tools (ughh). Out of all this equipment only the nano hives/injectors and repair tools are pieces of equipment that heal. Logistics involves taking care of supporting and supplying the team, not just being a medic. As such is the case, it is very important that a Logi use his or her wits to make tactical decisions about which equipment they bring to the battle. To me, a needle is a waste of space. Although it will save you a clone and a suit, it will often put the user in danger of lying down right next to the merc they are trying to revive. More often than not it is an assault player that will revive others, taking care of the enemies before revival is important and as such it makes more sense for a Logi to carry reps and ammo than a needle so that their squad can wipe out the enemy, revive the friend and allow the Logi to repair him while his squad is protecting their backs.
So... what is your point? Not being combative, just genuinely curious. You dislike the idea because you don't like Injectors, or love it because it means you'll have an inbuilt one and won't have to use the equipment slot? |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
1044
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 13:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hey, change this idea to just having EVERYONE be able to revive other players. I mean how hard it is to carry a tiny needle in your back pocket?
HOWEVER, this revive takes much longer (say 5 seconds instead of just stab and you're up), and will be cancelled if you get shot at within that time. I'd also be okay with this revive earning little to no wp for doing it.
Logistics aren't support, medics, healers, whatever. They are simply the most versatile.
I'd also like to apply my "stablize" idea to this as well. Basically after 5 seconds of reviving you are now "stablized", and can choose within 20 seconds whether to get up or give up. This way you don't just die when some noob tries to revive you. |
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
374
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 15:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:I can use a nanohive/injector, drop uplinks, remote explosives, active scanners, and repair tools (ughh). Out of all this equipment only the nano hives/injectors and repair tools are pieces of equipment that heal. Logistics involves taking care of supporting and supplying the team, not just being a medic. As such is the case, it is very important that a Logi use his or her wits to make tactical decisions about which equipment they bring to the battle. To me, a needle is a waste of space. Although it will save you a clone and a suit, it will often put the user in danger of lying down right next to the merc they are trying to revive. More often than not it is an assault player that will revive others, taking care of the enemies before revival is important and as such it makes more sense for a Logi to carry reps and ammo than a needle so that their squad can wipe out the enemy, revive the friend and allow the Logi to repair him while his squad is protecting their backs. So... what is your point? Not being combative, just genuinely curious. You dislike the idea because you don't like Injectors, or love it because it means you'll have an inbuilt one and won't have to use the equipment slot? I don't care for the idea because the idea that you are supposed to carry an injector goes counter to making tactical decisions like is it better to have the REs or the injector on this suit. Not having one as a built in class item makes me able to decide if I want to use a high meta variation that brings a merc back at 80% armor or at 30% armor and farm triage points from that merc while still making the 60 wp for getting them up regardless of the type of injector I use. |
Seeth Mensch
Damage Core corp.
42
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 16:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Hey, change this idea to just having EVERYONE be able to revive other players. I mean how hard it is to carry a tiny needle in your back pocket?
HOWEVER, this revive takes much longer (say 5 seconds instead of just stab and you're up), and will be cancelled if you get shot at within that time. I'd also be okay with this revive earning little to no wp for doing it.
Logistics aren't support, medics, healers, whatever. They are simply the most versatile.
I'd also like to apply my "stablize" idea to this as well. Basically after 5 seconds of reviving you are now "stablized", and can choose within 20 seconds whether to get up or give up. This way you don't just die when some noob tries to revive you.
^^ this!
It would be SO great to have the option of when to get up (within 20 seconds give or take). This is brilliant! As to the built in needle for everyone, yup, excellent idea, with an equipment module that could change the amount you give back, or maybe how quickly it operates. I run a Gal logi all the time, and I don't always have a needle because I also do specialists in droplinks, REs, and resupply (hives). I like that anyone could do it, but the baseline would be low. It would really offset the protostomping that could happen and make the game more tactical (the scout with the really low scan profile, hiding in the wings, watches the pubstomping crew walk by...then he rushes out, with with his sped-up nanites, injects 4 people in 10 seconds...suddenly the pubstompers are being stomped! But do THEY have a scout too?...)
Give this idea love! |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire
411
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 16:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
i like it. but pg/cpu should be lowered and the grenade slot removed
or alternatively make injectors consumable and take up the grenade slot. grenades take life, needles gives it. puts the logi suit more into support and less into assault. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
398
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 17:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Hey, change this idea to just having EVERYONE be able to revive other players. I mean how hard it is to carry a tiny needle in your back pocket?
HOWEVER, this revive takes much longer (say 5 seconds instead of just stab and you're up), and will be cancelled if you get shot at within that time. I'd also be okay with this revive earning little to no wp for doing it.
Logistics aren't support, medics, healers, whatever. They are simply the most versatile.
I'd also like to apply my "stablize" idea to this as well. Basically after 5 seconds of reviving you are now "stablized", and can choose within 20 seconds whether to get up or give up. This way you don't just die when some noob tries to revive you.
I really like this so long as you can still skill into the better injector. |
BIind Shot
Neanderthal Nation Public Disorder.
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 18:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
I like the idea only because it will keep injectors out of the hands of those idiot assault guys running them. |
abarkrishna
The Elysian Knights
13
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 12:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
If you mean being able to revive without having to sacrifice a slot to do so then i agree.
I hate having to choose hives, Scanner, rep tool, and uplinks over injectors.
i dont think revive stats should change. 30 percent or whatever is fine.
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