DUST Search - Reality Check

Magnus Amadeuss wrote:

Canari Elphus wrote:

No matter how you compare DUST to EVE's development it doesnt change the fact that people are leaving the game. Sure, DUST may be an awesome game down the road but that doesnt mean anything if there are only a handful of people that play it. Unless CCP is commited to using EVE money to pay for DUST's development then they are going to run into some issues.

There have been many great products that have failed because they couldnt gain traction with consumers.
Apple Newton - First PDA
Xerox Star - First major GUI before Microsoft and Apple
Sony Minidisk
Compaq PJB - First hard drive based portable music player (3 years before ipod)

Product development and marketing are both essential features. One cannot exist without the other.

Its not like the opposite hasn't happened, and for an example of that all you have to do is look at EvE online, made by the very same developer. The point is there is an historical example of an MMO starting out slow and then iteratively getting better. This just so happens to be from the very same developer.

Also, online game experiences dips around back-to-school time. Go to the same place you get the numbers for dust 514 and look at eve online, it is experiencing the very same dips(as it does every year). So either both games are dying or there is a market trend here.

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Magnus Amadeuss DUST University Ivy League 66	Posted - 2013.10.04 05:57:00 - [1] - Quote So I think a few of you are under some serious delusions when it comes to eve online and CCP as a developer, so lets set them straight. The game was broken for the first 6 months after release. Just go to the old eve forums and look around. The user interface was horrible, the balance was incredibly off, and the ship selection was very thin. I remember hearing about all the messed up stuff from the eve early days when I first joined in late 2005. In the short span of two in a half years, eve had gone from the mess of 2003 to something that I thought was amazing enough to play for 5+ years. So let me list a few of the cool things about Dust. The core concept is cool, basically it is like eve (the training/fitting aspects) without the immense boredom. Seriously eve is boring, I played it for 5+ years, I should know. One of the only games that gives you something to look forward to when you come back. Since your character continually earns skill points, you can take a break and come back to a nice chunk of SP to spend. Not many games do this. Free updates is awesome. So eve gets an expansion every 6 months that is free to all of the players which is amazing. I believe that CCP will continue to do this with dust which means the game you end up with in a few years will be nearly unrecognizable to the game you have today, for free. A developer core that communicates. For the longest time in eve the developers only had distant contact with a few select members of the community through informal means (like IRC with BoB peeps). Through a big scandal involving the aforementioned alliance the CSM was made and we now benefit from the CPM as a result. The CPM can and will be a powerful tool for CCP as it has been in eve and they know this.
Chumlee Chummington Red Star. EoN. 9	Posted - 2013.10.04 06:42:00 - [2] - Quote I dont play eve, so forgive me, but all the eve players ive talked to say the game is boring. So what about the game keeps you playing?
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 283	Posted - 2013.10.04 08:10:00 - [3] - Quote Stockholm Syndrome
General Erick Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 145	Posted - 2013.10.04 08:26:00 - [4] - Quote Chumlee Chummington wrote: I dont play eve, so forgive me, but all the eve players ive talked to say the game is boring. So what about the game keeps you playing? Id like to know too.
Chimichanga66605 Vader's Taco Shack 37	Posted - 2013.10.04 09:43:00 - [5] - Quote Haven't played EVE myself... ...but it is weird that I brought up this exact same topic with my girlfriend not 3 hours ago at the bar..... The parallels between EVE/DUST514 in the beginning stages is pretty interesting... ...still not even close to losing hope on this game.... -Chimi out, o7
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1584	Posted - 2013.10.04 09:50:00 - [6] - Quote Are you trying to compare the relax development rate from 10 years ago, to the demanding very competitive MMO market of to day ? 10 years ago was hardly not MMO's around...but, look to day.... type MMO in you Google engine and see what happens.
Chimichanga66605 Vader's Taco Shack 38	Posted - 2013.10.04 09:51:00 - [7] - Quote Banning Hammer wrote: Are you trying to compare the relax development rate from 10 years ago, to the demanding very competitive MMO market of to day ? 10 years ago was hardly not MMO's around...but, look to day.... type MMO in you Google engine and see what happens. ^Party-Pooper. But you make a good point....
SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 251	Posted - 2013.10.04 09:53:00 - [8] - Quote Banning Hammer wrote: Are you trying to compare the relax development rate from 10 years ago, to the demanding very competitive MMO market of to day ? 10 years ago was hardly not MMO's around...but, look to day.... type MMO in you Google engine and see what happens. You get a bunch of absolute crap that was rushed out the door even some AAA titles are just **** because they were pushed too fast to try to grab that wow scratch.
Rudy Vandersario Famous Wolf 69	Posted - 2013.10.04 09:53:00 - [9] - Quote Well said.
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1584	Posted - 2013.10.04 09:58:00 - [10] - Quote Chimichanga66605 wrote: Banning Hammer wrote: Are you trying to compare the relax development rate from 10 years ago, to the demanding very competitive MMO market of to day ? 10 years ago was hardly not MMO's around...but, look to day.... type MMO in you Google engine and see what happens. ^Party-Pooper. But you make a good point.... The Reality Check of this Reality Check thread.....stop living in the past guys.

Magnus Amadeuss DUST University Ivy League 71	Posted - 2013.10.04 13:47:00 - [11] - Quote Even though eve is boring, it has some redeeming qualities. It used to have an absolutely top notch community. There was also a lot of stuff to understand (steep learning curve) so at first you are overwhelmed and want to understand it all. Plus the real sense of loss made every encounter much more exhilarating than other games. Of course for those 5 minutes of pleasure, hours of boredom were required. Eve came out at a tumultuous time in MMOs. Star Wars Galaxies launched right along side it and was many times more popular, then the following year the juggernaut of World of Warcraft launched. Eve had tiny online numbers then (sub 10,000) but CCP kept iterating and chugging away and they are doing fine today. Those other two MMOs clearly outclassed EvE at the time, but CCP did not give up. Basically 10 years ago was the time of a few MMO giants(everquest, SWG, WoW), not like today when the market is so fragmented. The point of it all is that CCP has a track record of starting out with a sub-optimal game and iterating on what they have over and over until quality is achieved. It wasn't until like 2009 or so that I stopped hearing "Eve is dying" from the forums. So everyone stop freaking out.
Ulme Mees Eesti Leegion 20	Posted - 2013.10.04 14:16:00 - [12] - Quote +1 I did play eve but quited after lonewolfing was made too hard for me to have fun anymore. But Dust has kept me busy since closed beta and I am still having fun. Thanks CCP for great fun game for free.
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis 554	Posted - 2013.10.04 14:35:00 - [13] - Quote No matter how you compare DUST to EVE's development it doesnt change the fact that people are leaving the game. Sure, DUST may be an awesome game down the road but that doesnt mean anything if there are only a handful of people that play it. Unless CCP is commited to using EVE money to pay for DUST's development then they are going to run into some issues. There have been many great products that have failed because they couldnt gain traction with consumers. Apple Newton - First PDA Xerox Star - First major GUI before Microsoft and Apple Sony Minidisk Compaq PJB - First hard drive based portable music player (3 years before ipod) Product development and marketing are both essential features. One cannot exist without the other.
Magnus Amadeuss DUST University Ivy League 73	Posted - 2013.10.04 15:13:00 - [14] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: No matter how you compare DUST to EVE's development it doesnt change the fact that people are leaving the game. Sure, DUST may be an awesome game down the road but that doesnt mean anything if there are only a handful of people that play it. Unless CCP is commited to using EVE money to pay for DUST's development then they are going to run into some issues. There have been many great products that have failed because they couldnt gain traction with consumers. Apple Newton - First PDA Xerox Star - First major GUI before Microsoft and Apple Sony Minidisk Compaq PJB - First hard drive based portable music player (3 years before ipod) Product development and marketing are both essential features. One cannot exist without the other. Its not like the opposite hasn't happened, and for an example of that all you have to do is look at EvE online, made by the very same developer. The point is there is an historical example of an MMO starting out slow and then iteratively getting better. This just so happens to be from the very same developer. Also, online game experiences dips around back-to-school time. Go to the same place you get the numbers for dust 514 and look at eve online, it is experiencing the very same dips(as it does every year). So either both games are dying or there is a market trend here.
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis 555	Posted - 2013.10.04 16:48:00 - [15] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Canari Elphus wrote: No matter how you compare DUST to EVE's development it doesnt change the fact that people are leaving the game. Sure, DUST may be an awesome game down the road but that doesnt mean anything if there are only a handful of people that play it. Unless CCP is commited to using EVE money to pay for DUST's development then they are going to run into some issues. There have been many great products that have failed because they couldnt gain traction with consumers. Apple Newton - First PDA Xerox Star - First major GUI before Microsoft and Apple Sony Minidisk Compaq PJB - First hard drive based portable music player (3 years before ipod) Product development and marketing are both essential features. One cannot exist without the other. Its not like the opposite hasn't happened, and for an example of that all you have to do is look at EvE online, made by the very same developer. The point is there is an historical example of an MMO starting out slow and then iteratively getting better. This just so happens to be from the very same developer. Also, online game experiences dips around back-to-school time. Go to the same place you get the numbers for dust 514 and look at eve online, it is experiencing the very same dips(as it does every year). So either both games are dying or there is a market trend here. EVE online was a very unique model when it first came out. It was a SciFi based MMO. It has had a long time to mature without heavy competition on a ever evolving platform (PC). It is also subscription based which means a constant influx of cash from its customers. DUST is not a unique model in its base. It is a gaming platform based FPS that has extreme amounts of competition on a soon to be outdated platform. DUST has survived on its 'potential' to be something unique and I have known may people that played and some that continue to play based on that. However, that is a word that can only used for so long before it has no meaning anymore. The two models and customer bases are completely different. Treating them the same would be extremely flawed marketing. We have seen declines in the player base (especially veterans that were around since closed beta) with new games such as FFXIV, GTA V and now BF4 Beta coming out. Sure, that might not mean a total abandonment by these players but it reduces play time and the willingness to dump money into the game. The big test will be in the launch of the PS4. Players who migrate to that platform will probably have much less of a reason to return to the old platform as time goes by. If DUST does end up failing, it wont be the fault of the development team but the marketing team. They will have failed to understand what the customers want and how to give it to them in a timely manner. The marketing team has sent out ONE survey to the player base and it was a poor one at that (note: I have 7 years of market research experience). They should have been polling and surveying their base throughout BETA. DUST has lacked direction for a long time and its sad to see that.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 257	Posted - 2013.10.04 17:42:00 - [16] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: It wasn't until like 2009 or so that I stopped hearing "Eve is dying" from the forums. So everyone stop freaking out. That just means you haven't gone to the forums since 2009. As to the other off-topic question in this thread: I have a couple of very stubborn friends who keep playing the game, so I do as well. Especially now that I can play for free just by buying PLEX for ISK. If I still had to pay $15/mo, yeah, I'd probably quit (again). Don't get me wrong, there are enjoyable moments, but a lot of downtime as well. Unless you enjoy the PvE it has to offer. You could be entertained all day grinding missions/anoms/incursions.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2092	Posted - 2013.10.04 17:45:00 - [17] - Quote Didn't Apple Newton have a horrible UI?
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1139	Posted - 2013.10.04 17:58:00 - [18] - Quote One survey? I've filled out like 4 of the things.


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