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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
154
   |
Posted - 2013.10.05 03:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have a very difficult time understanding this mentality. Seriously, WTF do you need 4 respecs for? Or 8 or 15 or whatever number will make you people happy? It doesn't make any sense. The whole point of this game is to learn/adapt, build and progress your character, and that decisions matter. Believe it or not, some of us find that an appealing thing. Not the grind, mind you, just the concept. The grind needs work but that's a different discussion and not a reason to break the core principles of the damn game.
Now, I totally get why someone would want >a< respec at some random time of their own choosing. We've all made those poor choices we want back. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I get it. More importantly, I wholeheartedly agree with respecs for major changes to the skill tree itself. But why constant respecs? Don't even pretend it has absolutely zero to do with FOTM, because if it wasn't, why do you need them so often? Is your attention span so short that you get totally bored with a play style in a matter of weeks?
I'm done with the debate about a one time respec because honestly we're about due for it anyway with all the changes being made. But please, someone give me a legitimate, unselfish, and honest argument of why frequent respecs are desirable, serve any purpose but to satisfy your minuscule attention span, and not detrimental to anyone besides you. Don't have one? Good, now lets have a more productive discussion. The big kids are talking, so shhh.
As for the one time respec, let me put this scenario forward. Lets just assume for the sake of this argument, that CCP can miraculously get their act together and have the vehicles retuned/returned, and the racial suits, and weapons out, by lets say Xmas-ish. No reasonable person would argue against a respec when that all goes down.
I think we all know that's very optimistic and CCP would need a lot of things to go right and not have a lot of distractions for it to happen. So, given that respecs are clearly taxing for them, why not wait? An obvious answer to that is, well, if CCP wants us to play test the vehicles, we need to redo those skills. An excellent argument, so how about we reset everyone's vehicle tree and put all the SP back into your pools to reuse how you see fit. You think maybe you need a non-heavy suit and a rep tool to make up for the loss of passive repair? I'm not sure how feasible that actually is in fast-paced battles, but, ok, maybe you need to divert a little SP to that, but considering they've shortened the tree and vehicles are a much bigger sink than suits, the 500-750k you need to do that is probably a small portion of it, and something you can make back in time for the higher level vehicles to return for you to skill into again.
That said, why not this proposal I made in the vehicle thread?
Right now, everyone's vehicle trees gets respecced for the new vehicle hullabaloo.
Next update, when they (yes, optimistically) put in the racial suits, everyone's dropsuit tree gets respecced.
Finally, all the weapons are out, the weapon tree gets respecced (or the other way around, whatever).
All that's left is core skills, and I don't see how that's a major deal, why would you want those back, that's about the only part of the tree most people would leave constant or even drop more from the other trees into. So, using my very optimistic timeline, we all effectively get a respec over the next 3-4 months. Getting one right now instead makes little sense because it would be more useful once all the skill trees are redone, and would just add to CCPs workload and delay the good stuff. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
154
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 04:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
PEW JACKSON wrote:
Oh but wait! You can re specialize in a matter of weeks/ months if you grind and cap out every chance you get.... New players look at this like "WTF?", then leave.
This game needs monthly respecs that cost $5-10 worth of Aurum, with ISK variants priced at 50-100mil ISK. CCP gets more Aurum sales. Players get more diversity in the game. Decisions matter for that month. Noobs and vets are happy.
What's wrong with that again?
Pretty sure this clown wants constant respecs.
But, back to the point, you have a valid argument, I just don't agree with it philosophically. I also think that if we set the precedent that every time one tree gets changed, we get a full respec, you're on the slippery slope to 2, 3, 4 more respecs in the next several months: Oh wait, I want to change something again, I forgot to do it with the respec we got 5 weeks ago, now you added the assault drop ships back, I know 1/3 of the racial weapons aren't in yet and the suits are 3 months away, but can I haz another respect plz? |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 04:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:PEW JACKSON wrote:
Respecs would help diversity.
You obviously don't understand FOTM and DUST.... and it makes me sad that you make long post's.
I know, right? The example doesn't even make sense, how are respecs going to help you adapt to changing battle conditions? Should we just abandon that mechanic altogether and everyone gets access to everything? Or, are you going to respec on the respawn screen? What game are you playing? |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
157
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 12:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wow, you said it twice, so that must be the greatest argument ever.
Once someone resorts to the sky is falling tactic, with nothing else to support their opinion, their role in the discussion ends as far as I'm concerned. Aero, I personally don't think it's the way to go but you have a valid argument. In fact, if your way ends up using the least amount f CCPs resources and streamlines things to make playtesting easier, maybe I can even get behind it. Either way all the white noise surrounding this topic is tiresome.
I guess we will see how CCPs coin flip goes, lol. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
158
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 16:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Wow, you said it twice, so that must be the greatest argument ever.
Once someone resorts to the sky is falling tactic, with nothing else to support their opinion, their role in the discussion ends as far as I'm concerned. Aero, I personally don't think it's the way to go but you have a valid argument. In fact, if your way ends up using the least amount f CCPs resources and streamlines things to make playtesting easier, maybe I can even get behind it. Either way all the white noise surrounding this topic is tiresome.
I guess we will see how CCPs coin flip goes, lol. Either a respect is necessary or perhaps even a simulation battlefield/ machine for corporations where testing fits, weapons, and such, etc is possible without the necessary skills allowing players to figure out what they want to do with their SP and ISK before skilling into the actually items.
Yes, a test server or VM would be great on a number of different levels. Learning to fly derpships without losing a couple million ISK, corps working on tactics or trying out new members, or perhaps most importantly, rigorous play testing by large groups of experienced players might solve a lot of problems. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
158
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 20:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Crimson Judgment wrote:all of you people opposing respec's do realize what they're doing to the vehicle skill tree right?
- they're removing vehicle roles such as the logi and assault dropship : what exactly do you want to happen to sp invested in these skills just go away like it never existed?
- they're combining the caldari and gallente vehicle operation skills : so what will happen to this sp the same as the above
- they're adding new skills as prerequisites for skills we already have : so will we just be able to skip these?
and much more a respec is the only option we have and not a partial respec i think that it may be harder to implement then just a full respec and im sure we all don't want CCP to waste their time 
I highly doubt anyone is suggesting you should lose that SP you invested. That's never been on the table, any time a skill has disappeared the SP has been refunded in the past. I favor just resetting the tree that gets changed instead of a full respec because I think that is less trouble for CCP. Admittedly I don't have any facts to back that up, I'm just going on how hard it was for some people to get full respecs before, compared to the ease at which skills that have been changed have been refunded since uprising hit. |
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