DUST Search - How ccp broke scouts with scanners and ewar

OZAROW wrote:

Shotty GoBang wrote:

There are many factors to the Fall of the Scout.
Scanners haven't broken Scouts; we were already broken.

That said, the proliferation of proto scanners has potential to become a new problem for us.
Our slot configs feature too few slots for us to afford running dampeners.

If our base Scan Profile were lowered to 40 (from 45) then we'd be up against less of an issue.

By my math, a base of 40 dB + Max Racial Bonus + Max Passive Dampening = 27 dB.
Just enough to beat Meta 8 Scanners, but far shy of defying the Scout Sniffer (Meta 9 Scanner).

A buff enough to fix Scouts by itself?
Sadly not, but certainly not a bad start.

I totally agree they were already broken, an pc it's impossible to get anywhere unnoticed. An I think it's fine I have to wear a dampener to beat 28 db, I do how ever find it broken that a scout can't beat 15 db.

Since the scanner came out a few weeks after we already made our respecs in uprising.
No heads up about the changes to come an no other scout suits to compare these effects, which basically means that their is a high possibility that gallente scouts might very well be the only scouts that can beat the 15 db scanner.
Which means that their is absolutely no reason to use any of the other 3 scouts, an if the caldari an amar scout can beat the scanner than the minmatar can't?

Their is a huge flaw in this. This means a 50 db logi is essentially the new scout?
How in the hell has ccp ignored this for so long is what I want to know.
Have they even acknowledged this major screw up?

How can they even build the other two scouts without taking into account they need to rework the entire class.
Are they going to release this content without even realizing what they've done?
Do the currant scouts have to stay as is until they notice this?

Post after post an never a blue tag shows me they have absolutely no clue they did this or how to fix it.
Absolute incompitance that for the better part of a year an not one dev has confirmed they are aware of this db issue.

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OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 773	Posted - 2013.10.01 23:55:00 - [1] - Quote If you have a proto scout an level five in pd then your db is 30. 9/10 times if you get scanned it's the 28 db that lights up for almost 30 seconds, you need only a basic pd to beat this, if you swap fits once scanned an you still get seen then there is a 15 db scanner on the field, it this case you better hope your gallente if not start skilling it now like I have. Scanners have made the mini scout obsolete , nova kniving an being an assassin has officially been brOken by ccp for this scout. In all actuality all scouts have been broke to a certain extent by ccp for this class an need their numbers changed, an mini scout now has no place in pc because there will probably always be a logi using the 15 an 28 db scanner consecutively which means a gallente scout only has two mods he can use on his proto fit. Your left with one high an one low an barely enough CPU pg to use anything valid plus fill your weapon , equipment or nade. This shows how bad we need anothe slot each or our db lowered even further. With a extra low a minmatar proto can still run pc an have a base speed of 8.36 with biotics at 5 an 3 profile dampeners in its low slots, an if not scanned it can be fast again since gallentes low slots make it a faster suit, this suit also needs a +1 armor regen like the rest of the suits in its race, it is the lowest HP suit in the game an needs the regen. This will give it 343 / 90 shields an armor at proto with all skills maxed in shield an armor upgrades an allowing it to run in pc with 3 profile dampeners in the low slots Gallente needs a high slot at proto so it can use 3 profile dampeners to beat the 15 db an the extra shield for surviability in pc. This way both scouts are usefull in pc, we should not have to switch to gallente after we already had proto minmatar before scanners were even invented! I now have wasted over 3 million to proto two suits just to play pc an not be scanned. Both scouts need to beat this 15 db scanner other wise it's utterly pointless an makes no sense at all. Either they change the slots an CPU pg to accommodate the new slots, or at bare minimum lower our db so we can both beat this scanner without wasting all slots. This is a fair an even balance for proto suits
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1389	Posted - 2013.10.02 00:14:00 - [2] - Quote There are many factors to the Fall of the Scout. Scanners haven't broken Scouts; we were already broken. That said, the proliferation of proto scanners has potential to become a new problem for us. Our slot configs feature too few slots for us to afford running dampeners. If our base Scan Profile were lowered to 40 (from 45) then we'd be up against less of an issue. By my math, a base of 40 dB + Racial Bonus + Level V Dampening = 27 dB. Just enough to beat Meta 8 Scanners, but far shy of defying the Scout Sniffing Meta 9 Scanner. A buff enough to fix Scouts by itself? Not likely, but not a bad start.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6611	Posted - 2013.10.02 00:22:00 - [3] - Quote I'd like to chime in that I think all proto scout suits should gain a second equipment slot and the CPU/PG to accommodate it.
voidfaction Void of Faction 88	Posted - 2013.10.02 00:36:00 - [4] - Quote And when they bring in cloaks do we get nerfed back? seems UP right now but if you look at it with cloaks there is a big difference. It was done said cloak will not hide you from scanners. cloak and dampening is 2 different things. I don't disagree with your logic i'm just looking into the future. to me its like we are balanced because if I had a 15s cloak to run from cover to cover it would make a world of difference. I also see "You have been scanned" will be the same as saying cloak and move because it will be hard to hit a target you can't see other than on the scanner.
OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 778	Posted - 2013.10.02 02:40:00 - [5] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: There are many factors to the Fall of the Scout. Scanners haven't broken Scouts; we were already broken. That said, the proliferation of proto scanners has potential to become a new problem for us. Our slot configs feature too few slots for us to afford running dampeners. If our base Scan Profile were lowered to 40 (from 45) then we'd be up against less of an issue. By my math, a base of 40 dB + Max Racial Bonus + Max Passive Dampening = 27 dB. Just enough to beat Meta 8 Scanners, but far shy of defying the Scout Sniffer (Meta 9 Scanner). A buff enough to fix Scouts by itself? Sadly not, but certainly not a bad start. I totally agree they were already broken, an pc it's impossible to get anywhere unnoticed. An I think it's fine I have to wear a dampener to beat 28 db, I do how ever find it broken that a scout can't beat 15 db. Since the scanner came out a few weeks after we already made our respecs in uprising. No heads up about the changes to come an no other scout suits to compare these effects, which basically means that their is a high possibility that gallente scouts might very well be the only scouts that can beat the 15 db scanner. Which means that their is absolutely no reason to use any of the other 3 scouts, an if the caldari an amar scout can beat the scanner than the minmatar can't? Their is a huge flaw in this. This means a 50 db logi is essentially the new scout? How in the hell has ccp ignored this for so long is what I want to know. Have they even acknowledged this major screw up? How can they even build the other two scouts without taking into account they need to rework the entire class. Are they going to release this content without even realizing what they've done? Do the currant scouts have to stay as is until they notice this? Post after post an never a blue tag shows me they have absolutely no clue they did this or how to fix it. Absolute incompitance that for the better part of a year an not one dev has confirmed they are aware of this db issue.
Gelhad Thremyr QcGOLD 2	Posted - 2013.10.02 03:32:00 - [6] - Quote Ils not broken , you just cannot ALWAYS be invisible nor invincible, its what ECM is and leave concepts of ECCM Being better out, the game is already pretty hard as it is. I agree though about putain more cpu and pg, scouts are squishy, and bullets are hard to dodge...
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 551	Posted - 2013.10.02 03:59:00 - [7] - Quote I said exactly this when I read the notes on 1.5 with WP bonus to scanning red dots (basically breeding logi scanners - that's just in case reader can't connect the dots). Another mindless blunder by CCP, what else is new.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 551	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:02:00 - [8] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Shotty GoBang wrote: There are many factors to the Fall of the Scout. Scanners haven't broken Scouts; we were already broken. That said, the proliferation of proto scanners has potential to become a new problem for us. Our slot configs feature too few slots for us to afford running dampeners. If our base Scan Profile were lowered to 40 (from 45) then we'd be up against less of an issue. By my math, a base of 40 dB + Max Racial Bonus + Max Passive Dampening = 27 dB. Just enough to beat Meta 8 Scanners, but far shy of defying the Scout Sniffer (Meta 9 Scanner). A buff enough to fix Scouts by itself? Sadly not, but certainly not a bad start. I totally agree they were already broken, an pc it's impossible to get anywhere unnoticed. An I think it's fine I have to wear a dampener to beat 28 db, I do how ever find it broken that a scout can't beat 15 db. Since the scanner came out a few weeks after we already made our respecs in uprising. No heads up about the changes to come an no other scout suits to compare these effects, which basically means that their is a high possibility that gallente scouts might very well be the only scouts that can beat the 15 db scanner. Which means that their is absolutely no reason to use any of the other 3 scouts, an if the caldari an amar scout can beat the scanner than the minmatar can't? Their is a huge flaw in this. This means a 50 db logi is essentially the new scout? How in the hell has ccp ignored this for so long is what I want to know. Have they even acknowledged this major screw up? How can they even build the other two scouts without taking into account they need to rework the entire class. Are they going to release this content without even realizing what they've done? Do the currant scouts have to stay as is until they notice this? Post after post an never a blue tag shows me they have absolutely no clue they did this or how to fix it. Absolute incompitance that for the better part of a year an not one dev has confirmed they are aware of this db issue. Lol, the 50 db logi has been the new scout since the day there was such a thing as logi.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 715	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:05:00 - [9] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I'd like to chime in that I think all proto scout suits should gain a second equipment slot and the CPU/PG to accommodate it. This this is what scouts need, Im starting to get worried what my baby(amarr scout) would turn out like.
Tectonic Fusion The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 277	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:05:00 - [10] - Quote Gelhad Thremyr wrote: Ils not broken , you just cannot ALWAYS be invisible nor invincible, its what ECM is and leave concepts of ECCM Being better out, the game is already pretty hard as it is. I agree though about putain more cpu and pg, scouts are squishy, and bullets are hard to dodge... If active scanners were completely taken out of the game, of nerfed so you can't infinitely scan, then I would be happy. The cooldown is pointless, because you can scan right after is cools down. SO basically there is no point to the cooldown, aside from scanning new people.

OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 778	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:13:00 - [11] - Quote Gelhad Thremyr wrote: Ils not broken , you just cannot ALWAYS be invisible nor invincible, its what ECM is and leave concepts of ECCM Being better out, the game is already pretty hard as it is. I agree though about putain more cpu and pg, scouts are squishy, and bullets are hard to dodge... I don't think you get what I'm saying, the gallente has the slots to beat 15 db, minmatar never can, plus it's racial bonuses are melees an knives, what good is that bonus if you can't sneak up behind someone to use it?
Eyemakerwet R 0 N 1 N 50	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:46:00 - [12] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Gelhad Thremyr wrote: Ils not broken , you just cannot ALWAYS be invisible nor invincible, its what ECM is and leave concepts of ECCM Being better out, the game is already pretty hard as it is. I agree though about putain more cpu and pg, scouts are squishy, and bullets are hard to dodge... I don't think you get what I'm saying, the gallente has the slots to beat 15 db, minmatar never can, plus it's racial bonuses are melees an knives, what good is that bonus if you can't sneak up behind someone to use it? Not only this but, we still need to get away. Our speed is the only thing we got to barely get out of harms reach(if at all). Sacrificing slots to be stealthy shouldn't even need to be done in a scout suit. Dampeners should be for ppl that want to sneak in other suits. Logi has self rep so they dont have to sacrifice a slot that could be used for an upgrade they may need to run better equipment. Why should we have to do the opposite?
OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 779	Posted - 2013.10.02 05:08:00 - [13] - Quote Eyemakerwet wrote: OZAROW wrote: Gelhad Thremyr wrote: Ils not broken , you just cannot ALWAYS be invisible nor invincible, its what ECM is and leave concepts of ECCM Being better out, the game is already pretty hard as it is. I agree though about putain more cpu and pg, scouts are squishy, and bullets are hard to dodge... I don't think you get what I'm saying, the gallente has the slots to beat 15 db, minmatar never can, plus it's racial bonuses are melees an knives, what good is that bonus if you can't sneak up behind someone to use it? Not only this but, we still need to get away. Our speed is the only thing we got to barely get out of harms reach(if at all). Sacrificing slots to be stealthy shouldn't even need to be done in a scout suit. Dampeners should be for ppl that want to sneak in other suits. Logi has self rep so they dont have to sacrifice a slot that could be used for an upgrade they may need to run better equipment. Why should we have to do the opposite? Totally agree! When I first took the mini for a run with complex kats, I was like " YEAHHAHAHA BUDDDY, .....THAT'S WHAT IM TALKIN BOUT!" Now I'm like meh, I ll run a shield reg, armor rep an stay close to a squad. Biggity boooo urns!
Phazoid The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 49	Posted - 2013.10.02 05:35:00 - [14] - Quote it is really angering that there are not even one of CCP talking to the scouts, also we dont have a weapons designed for scouts, we are easily detected, by scanners and sight, we are not faster, we have no way of avoiding open spaces, we cant hide, we cant use cover effectively, we cant fit decently, so what can we do except be a light assault that drops something here and there, we cant assassinate, a medium dropsuit with a shotgun is better than us, the game has no place for us and nobody except scouts care
OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 782	Posted - 2013.10.03 00:24:00 - [15] - Quote This is true, but long ago I dropped the speed an my knives , started skilling gallente an I run a shield reg and armor rep now, it doesn't cut down the AR crossfire deaths but at least my health comes back full fast if I manage to escape hurt. I suggest you try it for a night with at least adv gear, an if your a gallente you can still run a plate an a speed to even you out
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 1076	Posted - 2013.10.03 00:29:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I'd like to chime in that I think all proto scout suits should gain a second equipment slot and the CPU/PG to accommodate it. I'd like to chime in to say I love you.


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