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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
584
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 10:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Gods Architect wrote:Save? You are assuming the game is dead. actually the amounts of players online is steadily declining and there are 3 issues that surely have an impact on that:
-the game is still beta despite having no beta flag anymore. every patch brings major changes and you actually cant be sure if it works cause no one tested them properly without having SP put into them. there is a reason everyone goes for AR, it is widely used and you know it works, getting SP into something else is risky. how can you actually put SP into them when you have to grind first for SP. people safe SP to get new stuff, put them into it, just to find out it sucks. just look at the past, it took the devs several months to fix various bugs because it takes long to get into new stuff and notice if something is not working as intended. do I need to mention MD hit detection? took the devs ages to fix, now PLC has a similar problem and other bugs and no one cares or is noticing. or the tank issues... I dont think I need to go on, the problems are widely known.
-another problem is that devs are constantly changing stuff. our decisions made months ago can suddenly mean nothing because the way you wanted to play changed and you would be forced to suck it up and play like the devs want you to play. already happened and will happen again.
-beside that, there is limited content anyway and new content takes ages to get released, there is no choice. some people would prefer to get into racial stuff that does not exist yet. they are FORCED to take what you have now if you want to compete, otherwise they would have to wait several months and endure painful grind. either way, the player feels bad in both cases (waiting for the content to release or take what you can get now) |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
588
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 15:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dust Junky 4Life wrote:PEW JACKSON wrote:To all this may offend, STFU, A.O.D, HTFU, GTFOH, Kitten Kittening Kitten!!!!!
On a serious note: give me 5 reasons respecs are bad for Dust at this point in time. I'll give 5 why they will ultimately keep this game alive for CCP's 10 year plan. 1. It teaches KIDS there are no consequences for their mistakes. 2. It would give me my win button back.........bad 4 u 3. Once everyone got a respec, they would beg for another every time new items come out. 4. A respec will allow MORE people to be OP. Specing into OP weapons/suits..........also bad for u 5. A repec now would mean nothing else to look forward to! You will just use all the SP to get what you want now. Nothing left to work towards. Fighter jets ooooooo ahhhhhhhhh lol Respec All in all, I am VERY happy with my choices..........except a few. Wasted SP on LAv's, all dropships unlocked. I have 24mill sp. I have everything I need. ofcourse if someone has 24m sp it does not matter, you can get 2 proto suits, 2 proto weapons along with core skills with it.
in short, your tiny scrub ego would get hurt because others would get what they want... that is unfortunately not a valid reason against it but in fact a good reason for it. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
589
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 15:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Dust Junky 4Life wrote:PEW JACKSON wrote:To all this may offend, STFU, A.O.D, HTFU, GTFOH, Kitten Kittening Kitten!!!!!
On a serious note: give me 5 reasons respecs are bad for Dust at this point in time. I'll give 5 why they will ultimately keep this game alive for CCP's 10 year plan. 1. It teaches KIDS there are no consequences for their mistakes. 2. It would give me my win button back.........bad 4 u 3. Once everyone got a respec, they would beg for another every time new items come out. 4. A respec will allow MORE people to be OP. Specing into OP weapons/suits..........also bad for u 5. A repec now would mean nothing else to look forward to! You will just use all the SP to get what you want now. Nothing left to work towards. Fighter jets ooooooo ahhhhhhhhh lol Respec All in all, I am VERY happy with my choices..........except a few. Wasted SP on LAv's, all dropships unlocked. I have 24mill sp. I have everything I need. ofcourse if someone has 24m sp it does not matter, you can get 2 proto suits, 2 proto weapons along with core skills with it. in short, your tiny scrub ego would get hurt because others would get what they want... that is unfortunately not a valid reason against it but in fact a good reason for it. No the well structured and thought out arguments here in this forum are amazing
I have yet to see a valid argument against it in a beta game without content and nonstop major changes and bugs, especially when the game is dying because of myriads of reasons. I can only repeat, the playerbase is already declining nonstop for reasons already mentioned millions of times. respec when all content is done is the only way to bring those people back that already moved to the next game.
the respec is not to chase the next FOTM, the respec is done thus you can speed up balancing process, bugfix process, bring variety into the game and bring fresh air. there is a reason why everyone went for AR, it is known as working, being all around good, easy to use and getting new stuff is risky with the slow balance and bugfix process that we CURRENTLY have. simply as that. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
591
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dust Junky 4Life wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Dust Junky 4Life wrote:PEW JACKSON wrote:To all this may offend, STFU, A.O.D, HTFU, GTFOH, Kitten Kittening Kitten!!!!!
On a serious note: give me 5 reasons respecs are bad for Dust at this point in time. I'll give 5 why they will ultimately keep this game alive for CCP's 10 year plan. 1. It teaches KIDS there are no consequences for their mistakes. 2. It would give me my win button back.........bad 4 u 3. Once everyone got a respec, they would beg for another every time new items come out. 4. A respec will allow MORE people to be OP. Specing into OP weapons/suits..........also bad for u 5. A repec now would mean nothing else to look forward to! You will just use all the SP to get what you want now. Nothing left to work towards. Fighter jets ooooooo ahhhhhhhhh lol Respec All in all, I am VERY happy with my choices..........except a few. Wasted SP on LAv's, all dropships unlocked. I have 24mill sp. I have everything I need. ofcourse if someone has 24m sp it does not matter, you can get 2 proto suits, 2 proto weapons along with core skills with it. in short, your tiny scrub ego would get hurt because others would get what they want... that is unfortunately not a valid reason against it but in fact a good reason for it. You snooze you lose! It;s not my fault you were late to the game. I say put all you low sp players back in academy where you belong and let the big dogs duke it out on the field. All you fkers only run milita anyway. Not worth my bullet. Bunch of scared babies hiding all the time. I have one proto suit maxed, 2 guns maxed. The rest is in everything else. I maxed out lav's and DS. You dont hear me crying respec. Theres 7mill wasted. I play everyday way over cap. some scrub are really cute. like that no life grind of a 14 year old kid makes you better just because you have 25m sp. and btw I am in dust since the first beta codes were rolled out and am trying to save the game that you are just grinding and wasting money in. all the SP you have grinded and money your mommy invested will be worthless in 3 months when player count in prime time drops by another 2k like in the past 3 months and CCP decides to shut off the sideproject because there are no players funding the devs. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
594
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:No respecs,the only thing respsecs are going to save currently are the players with buyer's remorse for specing into past FoTM too deeply in the past. who are you? just another typical scrub, sersiously everyone already has his SP invested in ARs
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: No because you'd test everything in one week and then there'd be nothing to play for. Opening new things is the addiction which keeps people hooked.
what addiction? maybe you have not noticed the player count at prime time but ~500 people are quitting dust per month. we are currently at 3,5k, chances are dust will not survive this winter.
Lea Silencio wrote:No to respecs.
You made your choices, live with them. That is life. Tough.
Adjust. That is what I did. Rather than cry about skilling into the SCR, I adjusted my playstyle and now, I have to say, I am damn good with it.
More attention needs to be paid to expanding the game's content, not catering to crybabies that messed up on a couple of things and want the slate wiped clean because of it.
You messed up and skilled into something you didn't mean to? Not anyone else's fault but your own, whether you went for FOTM, your grandma accidentally skilled into Amarr heavy when you are a Gallente scout when you weren't looking or you JUST HAD to have that awesome plasma cannon because...well...it LOOKED cool.
I am not one to rant on here, but a constant call for Respecs irritates me. I know that they will never end, only partially subside, but people need to live with the errors they make. If life had a damn respec, I would be a cardiovascular surgeon. Alas...it doesn't work quite like that. first of all, we dont have any decisions to make, there is too limited racial content and the development is too slow, the decision is basically FORCED upon you. beside that no one is going to waste his time and invest into new stuff because we all know the slow development process, bugfixes and balancing take ages in this game. everyone has his SP in AR already, because it is known as working reliable in almost all situations.
second, the FORCED decisions are changed by the devs development almost every patch.
and third, you are not good with the SCR, its called aim assist
and last "Choices matter" does not apply if devs change the premises on which those choices were made.
so please, do yourself a favor and wake up from your tunnelvision. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
594
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 10:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:Buttercup Chipmint wrote:Johnny Guilt wrote:PEW JACKSON wrote:Johnny Guilt wrote:No respecs,the only thing respsecs are going to save currently are the players with buyers remorse for specing into past FoTM too deeply in the past. Right becuase speccing scout, dropship, and hmg was sooo FOTM. im sorry to see you speced into it too deeply befroe you realized it wasn't worth it,here have a repsec and spec into something else,oh whats that you spec into another skill sink,have another... maybe you should learn some SP investment and management skills and get them to lvl 5. How would me getting a respec affect you? You the best SP investor that has ever graced New Eden! Why oh great one are you so against people having fun with this game? As is now I do not play this game. Does this help or hurt DUST? Is it better to have people playing this game or not playing because they are bored? It would sadden me(and probably many others),seeing as i put time and money into game where your decisions(good and bad) somewhat matter and now that concept that made the game what it was against all the other look alikes is all a crook of **** thanks to players crying for a reset button every time something doesnt work for them or too impatient to skill into something. Im not the best investor ,im just not stupid with my SP and ISK (as should most of the players should be in a game like this) I dont know how to answer this when the idea of "fun" varies, so ill write is off as a troll question. why are you here if you don't play anymore move on again, anyone repeating the "decision matter" doctrine is just lying to himself and tunnelvisioning or just a pathetic scrub trying to look tough. this does not apply when devs change the premises on which those choices were made and we have limited content to choose from. there are no decisions in a beta where it is all about testing and fixing, you are forced to take what is there. in short it is a cointoss unless you go into something that is already known as working like the AR unless it changed significantly (like it already happened in the past and will happen again if this game survives this winter).
I would really like to hear your wild theories how you decide the outcome of a cointoss |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
605
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 17:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:@at jack MCready After giving it some more thought after reading this and sitting on it,with a ever changing game where trends come and go,where interest spawn and die repeativly,where old strategies and suits become obsolete with new content being added in outclassing it, a respec once in a blue moon isn't that much of a big deal in the grand scheme of things.The respec wouldn't help nor hurt dust but only rub the shoulders of already foot held players already in the game the most, as they had the most time to try many things.You decisions DO matter,they mattter in the way that they build the basis for all future ones and what ever gained from those decisions whether in knowledge or wealth to keep you going to new ones. Yes the game is like a cointoss when skilling into certain things but i like to think of it as more of gambleing with SP,you could go all in if you want on something new to you(though not wise), i just don't what to hear crying when it doesnt work or last long/should have bet less and demand instant reset.As for theories how to decide the outcome of a coin toss that's pretty tough as you have no control over the constancy of your investments seeing as CCP like to break things ,however you can only decide how much you can lose on the decision if it goes south.You could watch others toss before you do and bet accordingly or make a throw away alt and spec into something just enough to test it out(good for testing weapon performance and feel) for everything else(like suits,vehicles,etc) you can just run numbers and apply past knowledge and experience and simulate what it would be like. I didn't make the decision to release Dust with basic content missing. I didn't make the decision to release broken or unbalanced content. I didn't make the decision to take several months to fix existing content.
That's CCP's fault. Choices only matter if you have a choice to begin with. CCP is doing the choices currently.
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
605
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:PEW JACKSON wrote:So did you Respec or not CCP's wallet is gonna get hurt big time. I'm happy with my choices, the good and the bad, I don't need a respec nor will one "save the game". This is a F2P game, CCP added aurum items in the hope to make cash, which could be seen as a gamble. As an EvE subscriber with 4 accounts, I assume their cash flow is pretty cool. again the typical pseudo eltist talk with no valid argument. why do you even bother to reply when you have nothing of value to tell.
and this is not eve.
summed up, arguments for respec: -The players that dont want them will still take advantage of them -The players that want/need them will be happy -Some old players will come back to test new stuff -CCP gets money to go on releasing stuff -balancing process speeds up
arguments against: -some pseudo elitist BS about "decisions" which isnt true at all |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
607
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 10:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
the recent announcments regarding tanks/dropships is the best example why there should be a respec, game is after all still beta. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
607
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 11:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:Blood Immortal wrote:Present me a logical case of why a respec is bad. I have not heard of one yet, and don't just say the same old stuff. make your point.
The intention of the game and skill tree is that you spec into one suit and appropriate gun. You use that suit/gun combination until you are extremely proficient with it. Sure you may start getting bored with it, at which point you should start to branch out to a different suit/gun ad. infinitum. Eventually you should have all suits and weapons and be able to counter anything you meet on the battlefield. There is no "end game" to this, your character is on a road of constant improvement and with new suits/guns in the future you should never get to a point where you have unlocked everything (most console players expect to unlock everything and can feel a sense of completion, which isn't dust.) Throw in respecs; people get to a certain SP value, lets say 15M SP. This gives them enough SP to get core skills up, get a proto weapon and suit. They use this suit and get bored of it or realise it was a bad choice, so they then want the easy (no grind) route to respec into something else. If respec were a time-limted thing, i.e. once a year, they are still gunna QQ that they made a bad choice so we are back to square one. People want the easy route and use statements that it will keep people active or increase player base or (lmfao) speed up the development process. This is GRIND 514, its true, you have to work for your SP and think about what you will spend it on. Sure I'll get trolled for all what I say, but thats the game CCP have created. People have a skewed view that respecs will make newer players more competitive, it won't! Vets will be stronger and the gap will be wider. If the planets align and the sun goes dark and CCP add in unlimited respecs, then yes the FotM chasers will be jumping for joy, this is an undeniable fact. There is no such thing as wasted SP, just poor short term choices and peoples over eagerness. Dust is about the grind, the main issue we have is the game modes and the lack of ways to gain SP. Add more ways to get SP people won't QQ for respecs. you are not getting the point. people dont get bored because they invest SP into one thing. people get bored because investing SP into something else than AR is a risk due to the slow development process and that is why they dont invest into anything else. if you invest in something new (that btw took months to get released in the first place) you might end with a broken toy or it might end broken after a "balance patch" and it takes CCP again months to fix.
we are still beta testers, removing the beta flag does not change it, just look at the recent vehicle announcment. |
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
609
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 13:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:Jack McReady wrote: you are not getting the point. people dont get bored because they invest SP into one thing. people get bored because investing SP into something else than AR is a risk due to the slow development process and that is why they dont invest into anything else. if you invest in something new (that btw took months to get released in the first place) you might end with a broken toy or it might end broken after a "balance patch" and it takes CCP again months to fix.
we are still beta testers, removing the beta flag does not change it, just look at the recent vehicle announcment.
You're making a flawed argument. Of course we are beta testers, we will always be beta testers, the game will always be in beta as I've said before, there is only so much that can be tested by a small amount of people which does not compare to thousands playing the game. Spec'ing into anything is a risk, everything can be balanced or removed, that's how MMO development works. To say you will end up with a broken toy is narrow minded as its only broken because it doesn't do what it previously did in your eyes. There are plenty of counters to AR's, the ScR is up there, if you can't see that then that's your lack of skill. typical tunnelvision answer, no point talking with someone that has his head in the arse yeah my argument is flawed because its true and you dont want to hear it. ~500 people leaving dust per month steadily are disagreeing with you (we are currently at 3.5k at primetime, have fun with empty server in 7 months). additionally you just contradicted your previous posts. I will let you figure out yourself why, I bet you never find out because you are blinded by your tunnelvision... |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
610
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 15:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fist Groinpunch wrote:Blood Immortal wrote:Fist Groinpunch wrote:Blood Immortal wrote:Lets put it a different way.
New people do the research and spec into a suit because of what the suit provides them, people in other suits now cry because they are not winning as much and so CCP nerfs the new suit and everyone who has it is upset and pays for the nerf. All the people who had the old suits are happy (old guard) and all the new people are screwed. The new want a respec, the old guard say live with it.
Hey let's put it yet another different way. CCP makes a mistake designing a suit to be clearly superior to all other suits. Power gaming players spec into it, thinking that CCP will never catch on, that they will have the advantage the suit provides forever. CCP catches on and balances out, not nerfs, balances out the suit to what it was supposed to be in the first place. Idiot players start crying for a respec, and the old guard are happy that justice finally prevailed. I think that is way more accurate. Of course you do, I suppose the same could be said for scouts, tanks, lav, scr, nads, hvys etc but they all cried some got it back some is scheduled to get it back. The only ones that don't get nerfd are AR and nova ummm I wonder why and I wonder what you play with. FYI I do not need a respec, but would use it like everyone else. I really don't understand people saying no to respec, the game is flawed, things change all the time and no one gets hurt except the proto's or AR's who don't want competition. Get over it. Present me a logical case of why a respec is bad. I have not heard of one yet, and don't just say the same old stuff. make your point. 95% of the time I use a TAR. Which is still a sick gun even after it was toned down by CCP. As to respecs, its simple enough. Giving out respecs creates a FOTM culture. Cal Logi is the best suit, skill into that. Now they nerfed it, skill into Cal Assault. Huge armor buff? Everybody skill into Gal Assault now. And the same with the weapons. TAR OP? Yeah get some of that. When they nerf it, skill into flaylocks. Then when that weapon is painfully average lets all skill into the AR because the new hit scan mechanics make it unbeatable. Respecs remove diversity in the game. When there are no respecs, people have to live with their choices. Sure, some weapons/suits may not be as effective at point X, but they will be again after patch Y hits. what choice again? this argument was already busted millions of times, but please go on repeating the same nonsense over and over
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
611
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 15:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fist Groinpunch wrote:The choice that you made when you bought levels in a suit or weapon, obviously. Why is that nonsense? you were talking glibberish about FOTM. there is no FOTM, more like favor of all time cause everyone and their mother already got their duvolle no one waste SP on something else due to reasons stated millions of times...
so in short, another worthelss pseudo elitist bs argument that is not even true... how often people want to repeat that nonsense? |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
611
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fist Groinpunch wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Fist Groinpunch wrote:95% of the time I use a TAR. Which is still a sick gun even after it was toned down by CCP.
As to respecs, its simple enough. Giving out respecs creates a FOTM culture. Cal Logi is the best suit, skill into that. Now they nerfed it, skill into Cal Assault. Huge armor buff? Everybody skill into Gal Assault now. And the same with the weapons. TAR OP? Yeah get some of that. When they nerf it, skill into flaylocks. Then when that weapon is painfully average lets all skill into the AR because the new hit scan mechanics make it unbeatable.
Respecs remove diversity in the game.
When there are no respecs, people have to live with their choices. Sure, some weapons/suits may not be as effective at point X, but they will be again after patch Y hits. Exactly the opposite, referring to the bolded and underlined. Beieve it or not, only a small % of any given games player base are power gamers. Surprisingly enough, these players also tend to make up the "top" end of the spectrum. What you describe as a fear (FOTM) I see as a brilliant opportunity for CCP to hammer out balance over the next 6 months or so. First and foremost, gamers gonna power game. If a game is actually balanced, then they will only ever attain a reasonable % advantage, instead of an I win. This means that in a balanced environment with plenty of choice and customization, no given fit will drastically overshadow and other given fit. Move on to the fact that in DUST, player skill is the most important skill. I know plenty of monsters in this game, and in others. Hell, in pubs I AM a fiend most of the time (not always though ) and I just use militia garbage or advanced stuff 90% of the time, not counting my Ishukone because God gun is God gun Respecs promote diversity because contrary to popular belief, people generally skill into things that they find fun, or to skill away from things that are impossibly infuriating...... I don't know if I agree with you. I think that if respecs were given out after every major rebalancing, the powergaming tryhards would move their SP into whatever the optimal suit/weapon/vehicle is, and would go back to pubstomping in their optimal fits. And then many average players would follow suit, thinking that its the suit/weapon that makes the tryhards so good, and we'd have less diversity. So for example, if a respec were given out tomorrow, I imagine that a majority of the player base would change to Gal/Cal assaults armed with ARs. Most of the scouts and heavies would change over, and many of the vehicle pilots too. And while that would quickly show CCP where the perceived imbalance is, it would make for a really dull game in the mean time. are we playing the same game? people already run cal/gal with duvolles they wont skill into anything else cause it risky due to miriads of reasons already stated plenty of times.
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