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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6497
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Posted - 2013.09.29 05:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Medium class vehicles are given Medium class modules.
Dropships are currently Medium vehicles that are balanced around Light modules.
This is their primary problem.
Release Medium modules and adjust CPU/PG accordingly = fix Dropships |
Gallente Mercenary 08551380
The Vanguardians
31
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Posted - 2013.09.29 05:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Medium class vehicles are given Medium class modules.
Dropships are currently Medium vehicles that are balanced around Light modules.
This is their primary problem.
Release Medium modules = fix Dropships
A logi DS has less base EHP than a logi LAV
Thats whats wrong with dropships. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2530
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Posted - 2013.09.29 05:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Medium class vehicles are given Medium class modules.
Dropships are currently Medium vehicles that are balanced around Light modules.
This is their primary problem.
Release Medium modules and adjust CPU/PG accordingly = fix Dropships
Well, having the PG skill back would probably help too. They shouldn't have changed that in anticipation of future balancing if it wasn't going to happen for months.
Really though, vehicles already have tons of missing modules and items (or skills that only give items through rank 3, skills with no passives, etc.). Even ignoring missing vehicles and the lack of vehicles better than standard, the vehicle skill tree is half-finished.
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BLACKSTAR AND TSUBAKI
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
63
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Posted - 2013.09.29 05:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
i like it bump |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1857
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 06:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Medium class vehicles are given Medium class modules.
Dropships are currently Medium vehicles that are balanced around Light modules.
This is their primary problem.
Release Medium modules and adjust CPU/PG accordingly = fix Dropships
OH MY GOD
THIS MAKES SENSE |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2058
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 06:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
120 MM plates are medium modules. There are no medium shield extenders that is the issue. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1857
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Posted - 2013.09.29 06:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:120 MM plates are medium modules. There are no medium shield extenders that is the issue.
DS resources cant do mediums tho rite? |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6498
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Posted - 2013.09.29 06:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:120 MM plates are medium modules. There are no medium shield extenders that is the issue.
True, but it doesn't change that reppers don't have medium variants, and dropships as a whole were clearly "balanced" with light modules in mind. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1857
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Posted - 2013.09.29 06:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:120 MM plates are medium modules. There are no medium shield extenders that is the issue.
Right 500 PG. I can prob swing that
/sarcasm |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2058
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Posted - 2013.09.29 06:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:120 MM plates are medium modules. There are no medium shield extenders that is the issue. Right 500 PG. I can prob swing that /sarcasm
Why did you double respond to that?
Yeah I know that they are super high in PG cost. But that's not my fault.
And yes I know about medium reppers, the lack there of in both armor and shields but at least resistance mods are across the board useful. Work just as well on a tank as a DS. |
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
957
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Posted - 2013.09.29 06:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
You know, that makes perfect sense. By the time MAV's come out, this better be fixed (hopefully sooner). But of course, this might get the medium and Heavy vehicle a little too close in tank ability. Might not, idk..... |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2316
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Posted - 2013.09.29 08:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:120 MM plates are medium modules. There are no medium shield extenders that is the issue.
You can't even fit the 120 MM plates on a dropship though |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9040
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Posted - 2013.09.29 09:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
My Gawd.
/falls to the floor foaming at the mouth.
Must... pass... on.... |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5549
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Posted - 2013.09.29 10:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
We got by without medium modules in earlier builds because we had the PG to fit what wanted. Blam's PG nerf should have been reversed months ago. If it's not reversed in 1.5, there's no point in piloting anything because we won't be able to fit anything.
Buffing afterburner acceleration back to Chromosome levels wouldn't hurt either. Or maybe use those stats to make a micro warp drive module. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
1752
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Posted - 2013.09.29 10:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
you have greater mobility then a LAV and that's why you have less eHP... |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6501
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 14:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:My Gawd.
/falls to the floor foaming at the mouth.
Must... pass... on....
Please please do, even though I can't be a dedicated pilot like I used to thanks to anxiety and respecs
I'll make the slow ass crawl back to the only thing I enjoy
ladwar wrote:you have greater mobility then a LAV and that's why you have less eHP...
And you make the entire map sound like MCCs mating the second you take off, you are very easy to spot, in anything other than an ADS your flight patterns are very predictable for even mediocre AV. You have to deal with your ship rocking side to side from everything that hits you, NULL missiles, MCC missiles, RDVs, along with buildings and the flight mechanics in general.
There is literally no excuse for Medium vehicles to be less resilient than Light vehicles, and ANYONE who has trouble taking out Dropships right now seriously needs to feel bad about themselves
:/ |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2194
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Posted - 2013.09.29 14:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:My Gawd.
/falls to the floor foaming at the mouth.
Must... pass... on.... Please please do, even though I can't be a dedicated pilot like I used to thanks to anxiety and respecs I'll make the slow ass crawl back to the only thing I enjoy ladwar wrote:you have greater mobility then a LAV and that's why you have less eHP... And you make the entire map sound like MCCs mating the second you take off, you are very easy to spot, in anything other than an ADS your flight patterns are very predictable for even mediocre AV. You have to deal with your ship rocking side to side from everything that hits you, NULL missiles, MCC missiles, RDVs, along with buildings and the flight mechanics in general. There is literally no excuse for Medium vehicles to be less resilient than Light vehicles, and ANYONE who has trouble taking out Dropships right now seriously needs to feel bad about themselves :/
Likewise.
I'm saving SP for dropships but I won't spend them until I see some progress. |
Gallente Mercenary 08551380
The Vanguardians
34
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Posted - 2013.09.29 15:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
ladwar wrote:you have greater mobility then a LAV and that's why you have less eHP...
Yes dropships have a greater speed.
But lets think realistically here man.
They are 2x the size of an lav.
They fly around in the sky, a place with little to no cover.
And if you used the forge gun back in the murder taxi days (which is why everyone has proto AV btw), you would know that it is exponentially harder to hit a moving lav that it is a moving dropship. It still is!
Dropships should not have less eHP, dropships should be able to go into a hotzone, drop off or pick up troops, and fly away without dying as long as you got a decently skilled pilot at the wheel.
They just can't do that right now; they just cant.
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Torneido Achura
Suicidal Business Inc.
43
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Posted - 2013.09.29 15:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Actually med modules are Dust high modules, and high modules are in Dust the weapons&nades slots.. so---- you're totally and utterly screwed dropshipers  fear the Wykromi, fear biches
Someone more in touch with Eve could get you some more info.. but medium vehicles doesn't mean med modules, fact  |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6502
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Posted - 2013.09.29 15:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Torneido Achura wrote:Actually med modules are Dust high modules, and high modules are Dust the weapons&nades slots.. so---- you're totally and utterly screwed dropshipers fear the Wykromi, fear biches Someone more in touch with Eve could get you some more info.. but medium vehicles doesn't mean med modules, fact
I was specifically talking about the type of module.
In DUST, not EVE, since the two are drastically different, we have Light, Medium, and Heavy vehicles.
As we can see by the 120mm plates, we do in fact have medium modules. Considering the MAV wants to be a thing, this will also need to be balanced around medium modules. Without medium modules to go with medium vehicles, medium vehicles will forever be an ISK and SP trap because they cannot compete with halfway awake AV under any circumstances. |
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Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1859
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Posted - 2013.09.29 15:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:120 MM plates are medium modules. There are no medium shield extenders that is the issue. You can't even fit the 120 MM plates on a dropship though
3x small missiles, lowest requirement to make valid fitting
1x 120 plate
breaks any build for pg |
Torneido Achura
Suicidal Business Inc.
43
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Posted - 2013.09.29 15:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Torneido Achura wrote:Actually med modules are Dust high modules, and high modules are Dust the weapons&nades slots.. so---- you're totally and utterly screwed dropshipers fear the Wykromi, fear biches Someone more in touch with Eve could get you some more info.. but medium vehicles doesn't mean med modules, fact I was specifically talking about the type of module. In DUST, not EVE, since the two are drastically different, we have Light, Medium, and Heavy vehicles. As we can see by the 120mm plates, we do in fact have medium modules. Considering the MAV wants to be a thing, this will also need to be balanced around medium modules. Without medium modules to go with medium vehicles, medium vehicles will forever be an ISK and SP trap because they cannot compete with halfway awake AV under any circumstances.
soooooo? sounds like CCP right? 
and btw they aren't that different |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
215
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Posted - 2013.09.29 15:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Medium class vehicles are given Medium class modules.
Dropships are currently Medium vehicles that are "balanced" around Light modules.
This is their primary problem.
Release Medium modules and adjust CPU/PG accordingly = fix Dropships
not to poke holes in your plan but dropshhips are considered light vehicles.... look at the loading screen with the legend on it. A hallow triangle is a light aircraft ;however a RDV has the same symbol but it can survive around 5 forge gun hits... sooooooo. IDK. |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
215
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Posted - 2013.09.29 16:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:120 MM plates are medium modules. There are no medium shield extenders that is the issue. You can't even fit the 120 MM plates on a dropship though 3x small missiles, lowest requirement to make valid fitting 1x 120 plate breaks any build for pg
yep but the sad thing is two 60 plates does the same amount of armour with less pg cost. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6503
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 16:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mac Dac wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:The Medium class vehicles are given Medium class modules.
Dropships are currently Medium vehicles that are "balanced" around Light modules.
This is their primary problem.
Release Medium modules and adjust CPU/PG accordingly = fix Dropships not to poke holes in your plan but dropshhips are considered light vehicles.... look at the loading screen with the legend on it. A hallow triangle is a light aircraft ;however a RDV has the same symbol but it can survive around 5 forge gun hits... sooooooo. IDK.
Dropships are most certainly Medium vehicles.
Call in your Gorgon and take a look at the symbol. |
Nick nugg3t
United Universe Corp
174
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Posted - 2013.09.29 16:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
eyup
+1 |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
217
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Posted - 2013.09.29 16:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Mac Dac wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:The Medium class vehicles are given Medium class modules.
Dropships are currently Medium vehicles that are "balanced" around Light modules.
This is their primary problem.
Release Medium modules and adjust CPU/PG accordingly = fix Dropships not to poke holes in your plan but dropshhips are considered light vehicles.... look at the loading screen with the legend on it. A hallow triangle is a light aircraft ;however a RDV has the same symbol but it can survive around 5 forge gun hits... sooooooo. IDK. Dropships are most certainly Medium vehicles. Call in your Gorgon and take a look at the symbol.
really i thought all dropships were hallow triangles. well then. This suck!
*starts specing into tanks* |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2061
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 17:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Yeah so here's a little thing on 120 plates
2x HP of 60 mm
18% Speed Reduction
But like 3-4X more PG, same CPU.
That's messed |
Darth-Carbonite GIO
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
178
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Posted - 2013.09.29 17:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
ladwar wrote:you have greater mobility then a LAV and that's why you have less eHP...
Actually no. Think about it: An LAV can turn around rocks, hide in buildings, and dodge swarms. If somebody fires swarms at you in a dropship, and you're not in an urban environment, you WILL be hit.
Try shooting a speeding LAV with a forge gun. Now try hitting a hovering Dropship. See the difference?
In the end, the dropship's maneuverability doesn't count for much. |
SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr.
EoN.
215
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 18:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gallente Mercenary 08551380 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:The Medium class vehicles are given Medium class modules.
Dropships are currently Medium vehicles that are balanced around Light modules.
This is their primary problem.
Release Medium modules = fix Dropships A logi DS has less base EHP than a logi LAV Thats whats wrong with dropships.
This actually makes sense, you give up armor and protection for the ability of flight. You can stack more armor on something on the ground than you can on something that flys. |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6509
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Posted - 2013.09.29 19:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
SgtDoughnut wrote:This actually makes sense, you give up armor and protection for the ability of flight. You can stack more armor on something on the ground than you can on something that flys.
On traditional aircraft sure, but the dropship is clearly meant to be an armored transport ship. Honestly the Assault dropship is almost fine, so it just needs to be able to fit one, maybe two medium modules if you really tried.
Logistics ships need the ability to logi, they need to be able to tank since they're slow and easy to hit. Light remote reppers can stay exactly as is, just give medium remote reppers a longer range so MAVs can support while entrenched and dropships can support from a reasonable distance that doesn't beg for the pilot to crash the second someone sneezes his way.
Reduce the PG/CPU cost of medium modules to match what they give you, bump dropship PG/CPU to compensate, possibly a 10-15% base HP buff, and possibly one additional main slot for logistics ships(low for Gallente, high for Caldari), just without the added PG/CPU to compensate, to give you more wiggle room when tweaking builds.
+5 WP for spawns in dropship.
Change Gallente Logistic Dropship bonus from -2% CPU consumption to all armor modules to -1% PG consumption to all armor modules
Bam. Dropships done. |
Pvt Numnutz
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
247
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Posted - 2013.09.29 19:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
Yep, maybe 1.6 eh dust fiend? That is if its not pushed back again.... |
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