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Jason Pearson
Animus Securities
2925
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Posted - 2013.09.28 19:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
o/
Just a quick thing, I am not Spkr4thedead, while a great player, he is far too protective of what he deems his area of expertise (though he has a right to be tbf), so if any nub wants to come in and say "SHUT UP JASON YOU TANKERS DON'T WANT US TELLING YOU WHAT WE THINK SHOULD HAPPEN SO STAY OUT OF INFANTRY STUFF!!!111", you have a right, yes but I do not play only as a tanker, and I don't play with just other Tankers.
Oh and CCP, this is a proposal thread for discussion, I noticed you like to move my threads to feedback/discussion and let them just die, so yeah, heads up CCP, DISCUSSION. On to my proposal.
I want to discuss the idea of a simple buffs/debuffs to suit types rather than racial bonuses, we all know this is meant to be a sandbox game, but a logi suit can become much better than an assault suit in assaulting, which doesn't seem right. So rather than nerfing everything into the ground, why don't we look at adding limitations and additions to each TYPE of suit (So, an Amarr Logi and a Gallente Logi would have the same type of buffs/debuffs alongside their racial bonuses)
So, examples
- Light
- Scout: 25% Stamina, 10% Movement Speed, Increased Weapon Zoom
- Medium
- Assault: 25% Stamina, Increased Ammo Capacity - Logistics: -25% Damage Output, Increased Triage ability
- Heavy
- Sentinel: 10% Damage Reduction, Reduced Explosive Damage - Commando: 10% Damage Reduction, Increased Ammo Capacity
Again examples, but you understand where I'm going, offer suits bonuses to direct their play style rather than limit it, if you're running a Logi and want to be running and gunning, chances are you're not going to want to do it in a logi suit due to a damage output reduction debuff on the suit, but an Assault Suit doesn't lose damage, actually it has more ammo for you to go off killing things with.
thoughts?
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! |
Coleman Gray
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
739
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Posted - 2013.09.28 19:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sound thinking, Logi vehicles have a dmg nerf on turrets soo what your suggestions aren't totally unreasonable. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6283
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 19:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Changing the bonuses could be much better for emphasizing roles. I also hate hate HATE that logi weapon nerf, or "debuff" idea. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112226 My idea:
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Relevant changes required first: The Uprising 10% damage buff to all weapons needs to be removed. Those who want more damage should spec into assault, specifically Gallente. Relevant to Gallente assault bonus proposal.
WP rewards for armor repair from injectors and repair tools should be proportional to armor HP repaired. Right now you make more WP from reviving someone with a crappy injector, and then repairing their armor with a crappy armor repairer to get more WP; making WP rewards for armor revived/repaired would fix this. Relevant to Gal logi bonus proposal.
[MEDIUM SPECIALIZATIONS]Assault bonus: 5% light weapon PG/CPU reduction per lv. Assaults are about offense, weapons should be emphasized.Amarr bonus: 5% heat buildup reduction per lv for laser weaponry. I love this bonus, no need for changing.
Caldari bonus: 3% range increase of railgun weapons per lv; good for sniper, rail rifle (SoonGäó), & magsec SMG(SoonGäó).
Gallente bonus: 1% damage per level of plasma weapons; AR, shotgun, plasma cannon.
Minmatar bonus: 5% increase in magazine size per lv for projectile & explosive weapons; SMG, flaylock, MD, & Combat rifle (SoonGäó).
Logistics bonus: 5% reduction of PG/CPU of equipment per lv. Am bonus: 1 armor repair HP/s per lv. As a combat logi (has a sidearm), it makes sense to have a bonus to its own survival in addition to the support-centric general logi equipment bonus. I thought about a drop uplink bonus for Amarr logi, but Am logi is the slowest medium frames; not the best suit for setting uplinks.
Cal bonus: 10% more nanite cluster for deployed nanohives per lv. Nahohives are Caldari (names like Ishukone, & blue), so makes sense.
Gal bonus: 5% nanite injector efficacy + 10% inject speed per lv.
Min bonus: 5% repair tool range per lv + 5% repair tool repair rate per lv. Repair tool is Minmatar (names like Core, & brown). The previous hacking speed bonus was ok, but it would work better on a faster suit with more speed and stamina; logis' speeds &/or staminas are inferior compared to the medium frame
______________ [LIGHT SPECIALIZATIONS]Scout bonus: 5% profile dampening per lv. No need to change that.Am (SoonGäó) bonus: X% signature profile reduction for drop uplinks; the sig profile of uplinks are unknown, but the skill should be enough to hide uplinks from scans. Drop uplinks are Amarr (names like Imperial, & golden), & scouts have the speed needed to make the best use of the uplinks.
Cal (SoonGäó) bonus: 5% regular & depleted shield recharge delay reduction per lv. Good for a shield suit. Perhaps an E-war bonus instead.
Gal bonus: 5% range increase per lv of both passive scan & active scanner. Active scanners are scouty, & active scanners are Gallente (names like CreoDron, & green).
Min bonus: 5% hacking speed bonus per lv. The hacking speed bonus makes more sense on a scout because of speed & stealth. It does not make sense for the Min to have a bonus to Caldari knives; even the bonus will get changed to be for the upcoming Minmatar melee weapon (SoonGäó), it would still be odd that it would be the only melee weapon with a suit bonus to augment it.
*There should probably be a new specialization for ninja knifers where each raceGÇÖs suit has a PG/CPU fitting bonus to the melee weapons of that race, & a general bonus to sidearm damage. Perhaps 2 (or 3) sidearm slots, & no light weapon. This is because I know a lot of ninja knifers will be hurt by the changes to the Min scout I propose*_______________ [HEAVY SPECIALIZATIONS]Sentinel bonus: 3% resistance to light weapons per lv; this is to emphasize the defensive nature of sentinels. The previous bonus to feedback damage reduction would only be useful for the upcoming heavy Amarr weapon, & would be useless to a player who is good enough to avoid overheating (basically punishing skill). Am bonus: 2% per lv armor plate + shield extender bonus. Amarr are about HP, and dual tank in Dust (unlike in EVE).
Cal (SoonGäó) bonus: 5% shield recharge rate per lv.
Gal (SoonGäó) bonus: 10% armor repairer efficacy rate per lv.
Min (SoonGäó) bonus: 5% more heavy weapon reload speed per lv.
*Alternatively, the sentinel bonuses can be based on their race's heavy weapon instead*Commando bonus: 5% reduction of PG/CPU costs of light weapons per lv.Am bonus: 5% reload speed of laser light weapons per lv. Perfect for laser rifle & scrambler rifle combo. The previous bonus was good for tanking, but commandos aren't meant for tanking,
Cal (SoonGäó) bonus: 5% reload speed of railgun and missile light weapons per lv. Perfect for any combo of 2 of the following weapons: swarm launcher, sniper rifle, & rail rifle (SoonGäó).
Gal (SoonGäó) bonus: 5% reload speed of plasma weapons per lv. Perfect for any combo of 2 of the following weapons: shotgun, assault rifle rifle, & plasma cannon.
Min (SoonGäó) bonus: 5% reload speed of explosive & projectile light weapons per lv. Perfect for combat rifle (SoonGäó) & mass driver combo.
I cut a bit of it because of the character limit. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
941
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Posted - 2013.09.28 20:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Those could be innate properties of the suit types on top of the racial bonuses. That's what makes them different race wise. Anyways, I would change the Stamina on the Assault to reload speed, as it's supposed to focus on it's gun, not running around. Also, I'm going to assume that what you mean by "triage ability" is any kind of equipment that is not damaging the other team, or is some kind of EWAR. If not, that's what it should be. Why? Because Scouts should get a bonus towards their racial preference (like Gallente should deal with the scanners, and Winmatar should deal with any targeting). Lastly, I would change the Commando's damage reduction to damage bonus, as the commando's are meant to dish out damage, not really take it in. |
Jason Pearson
Animus Securities
2927
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 20:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
@KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf These were example, but for a strength in one area, you give a weakness in another, my logi LAV receives a buff to its resistance but has a 50% damage reduction, it is fair in my eyes, I spend more time keeping myself alive and my allies than worrying about having a gunner to kill things. Also, Assaults technically do have a "debuff" when it comes to equipment, they carry one thing while Logis carry 3-4, atm Logis can be better suited to killing, and better suited at being a logi than an assault, it's one or the other when you specialize.
Godin Thekiller wrote:Those could be innate properties of the suit types on top of the racial bonuses. That's what makes them different race wise. Anyways, I would change the Stamina on the Assault to reload speed, as it's supposed to focus on it's gun, not running around. Also, I'm going to assume that what you mean by "triage ability" is any kind of equipment that is not damaging the other team, or is some kind of EWAR. If not, that's what it should be. Why? Because Scouts should get a bonus towards their racial preference (like Gallente should deal with the scanners, and Winmatar should deal with any targeting). Lastly, I would change the Commando's damage reduction to damage bonus, as the commando's are meant to dish out damage, not really take it in.
I need to stress the the list were just examples to show the general idea, you give a buff to a suit in one area, and then a debuff, for example the Logistics buff/debuff was Triage (Rep and Nanite) Improvement, and reduced damage output, making it a useful suit for repping, but not for being used as assault.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1488
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Posted - 2013.09.28 20:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's an interesting idea. The numbers could be argued endlessly -- but the concept is sound. With the logi able to do just about anything there needs to be a way to allow suits meant for certain roles to excel at those roles.
Good thinking! |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6283
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 20:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:@KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf These were example, but for a strength in one area, you give a weakness in another, my logi LAV receives a buff to its resistance but has a 50% damage reduction, it is fair in my eyes, I spend more time keeping myself alive and my allies than worrying about having a gunner to kill things. Also, Assaults technically do have a "debuff" when it comes to equipment, they carry one thing while Logis carry 3-4, atm Logis can be better suited to killing, and better suited at being a logi than an assault, it's one or the other when you specialize.
Alright, then logis are already debuffed by the lack of sidearm. They're also slower, have less stamina. Sure they have 1 more module slot, but they also have less base HP. |
Jason Pearson
Animus Securities
2928
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 20:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:@KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf These were example, but for a strength in one area, you give a weakness in another, my logi LAV receives a buff to its resistance but has a 50% damage reduction, it is fair in my eyes, I spend more time keeping myself alive and my allies than worrying about having a gunner to kill things. Also, Assaults technically do have a "debuff" when it comes to equipment, they carry one thing while Logis carry 3-4, atm Logis can be better suited to killing, and better suited at being a logi than an assault, it's one or the other when you specialize.
Alright, then logis are already debuffed by the lack of sidearm. They're also slower, have less stamina. Sure they have 1 more module slot, but they also have less base HP.
A fair exchange for additional equipment slots I guess (Although, 4 is still a lot of equipment) but really I prefer my Logi to the Assault, I have built in reps, I can fit all plates and have access to more equipment. Whilst my attempt is to be more survivable others will just simply put all damage mods for best damage output.
I see more logis than I do normal suits, and I see them on the frontlines rather than support. By the possible addition of a damage debuff (not to say that is my intention of this post) it means yes you fight, but you look to keep it a survivable unit for support rather than fighting on the frontlines.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1120
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 20:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:Logistics: -25% Damage Output, Increased Triage ability
And now logistics is irrelevant in PC. GF.
Seriously, when was the last time you saw a rep tool being used in PC? Or a needle for that matter? The game's current pacing and weapon balance means people get instakilled. The only time I get to actually use those tools is in pub matches, since people there don't typically take the things that are clearly OP and stack the hell out of them. A buff to triage would be as useful as t!ts on a bull. |
Jason Pearson
Animus Securities
2928
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 20:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:Quote:Logistics: -25% Damage Output, Increased Triage ability And now logistics is irrelevant in PC. GF. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a rep tool being used in PC? Or a needle for that matter? The game's current pacing and weapon balance means people get instakilled. The only time I get to actually use those tools is in pub matches, since people there don't typically take the things that are clearly OP and stack the hell out of them. A buff to triage would be as useful as t!ts on a bull.
Do you know before you read the list, and just after, there's a sentence which has the word "examples" in? I'm sure you read it, but I'm not sure you actually realized what it meant. It means that these are not actual suggestions for the buff/debuff, but just shows what we could easily have available to us.
Also, I see more Logis in PC than regular suits, not that this is a suggested nerf/buff for any suit.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! |
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J Falcs
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
121
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Posted - 2013.09.28 20:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:Quote:Logistics: -25% Damage Output, Increased Triage ability And now logistics is irrelevant in PC. GF. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a rep tool being used in PC? Or a needle for that matter? The game's current pacing and weapon balance means people get instakilled. The only time I get to actually use those tools is in pub matches, since people there don't typically take the things that are clearly OP and stack the hell out of them. A buff to triage would be as useful as t!ts on a bull. Do you know before you read the list, and just after, there's a sentence which has the word Examples in? I'm sure you read it, but I'm not sure you actually realized what it meant. It means that these are not actual suggestions for the buff/debuff, but just shows what we could easily have available to us. Also, I see more Logis in PC than regular suits, not that this is a suggested nerf/buff for any suit.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!
I agree, it's easier to spawn in then wait for a pick up and repair unfortunately. |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1121
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 21:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:Quote:Logistics: -25% Damage Output, Increased Triage ability And now logistics is irrelevant in PC. GF. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a rep tool being used in PC? Or a needle for that matter? The game's current pacing and weapon balance means people get instakilled. The only time I get to actually use those tools is in pub matches, since people there don't typically take the things that are clearly OP and stack the hell out of them. A buff to triage would be as useful as t!ts on a bull. Do you know before you read the list, and just after, there's a sentence which has the word "examples" in? I'm sure you read it, but I'm not sure you actually realized what it meant. It means that these are not actual suggestions for the buff/debuff, but just shows what we could easily have available to us. Also, I see more Logis in PC than regular suits, not that this is a suggested nerf/buff for any suit.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!
And you missed my point entirely. The game has balance problems serious enough that defining roles this way won't work. When you get into PC the only way to win is max damage fits, following the one and only cheap strategy for the particular map. There is no room for variation. The suit that does more damage is the I win button. Once this is fixed, then ideas like class level bonus variations would actually be interesting. |
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