|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
139
   |
Posted - 2013.09.26 05:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Reposted from a thread I just made, but it's relevant here:
The Amarr Assault 5% heat reduction per level is out of line with other racial suit bonuses. It's the only dropsuit skill that provides a direct DPS increase (to the LR) and a sustained DPS increase (SCR). Therefore, using any other suit with those weapons, or other weapons with that suit, is effectively penalized. My Amarr Logi should be able to use the LR just as well as my assault comrades, instead of having to sacrifice a magical land of bonus damage in exchange for equipment slots. The LR either has to be slightly UP without the Amarr assault or slightly OP with it- there's no good way to balance a weapon whose damage is directly affected by choice of suit. I don't know what the Amarr assault bonus should be changed to, but the current state is bad. Thoughts? |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
140
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 05:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garth Mandra wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Reposted from a thread I just made, but it's relevant here:
The Amarr Assault 5% heat reduction per level is out of line with other racial suit bonuses. It's the only dropsuit skill that provides a direct DPS increase (to the LR) and a sustained DPS increase (SCR). Therefore, using any other suit with those weapons, or other weapons with that suit, is effectively penalized. My Amarr Logi should be able to use the LR just as well as my assault comrades, instead of having to sacrifice a magical land of bonus damage in exchange for equipment slots. The LR either has to be slightly UP without the Amarr assault or slightly OP with it- there's no good way to balance a weapon whose damage is directly affected by choice of suit. I don't know what the Amarr assault bonus should be changed to, but the current state is bad. Thoughts? I say keep the bonus as it is for now but add a module that does the same thing. ie. a heat sink that reduces heat build up of weapons by x%.
That's totally not an acceptable fix. While I would love to see heat sinks added as modules, it wouldn't alleviate the problem- an Amarr Assault would still have the highest heat mitigation, which would still provide direct DPS benefits from the suit bonus.
There's also still the reverse argument: Why should a suit have bonuses that apply to only 2 weapons? That seems unduly restrictive. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 06:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Reposted from a thread I just made, but it's relevant here:
The Amarr Assault 5% heat reduction per level is out of line with other racial suit bonuses. It's the only dropsuit skill that provides a direct DPS increase (to the LR) and a sustained DPS increase (SCR). Therefore, using any other suit with those weapons, or other weapons with that suit, is effectively penalized. My Amarr Logi should be able to use the LR just as well as my assault comrades, instead of having to sacrifice a magical land of bonus damage in exchange for equipment slots. The LR either has to be slightly UP without the Amarr assault or slightly OP with it- there's no good way to balance a weapon whose damage is directly affected by choice of suit. I don't know what the Amarr assault bonus should be changed to, but the current state is bad. Thoughts? I disagree with you completely. The Amarr make laser weaponry, so it only make sense that they would make their offensive suit (assault) to best utilize their weaponry. Your logi should not be able to use an LR or SCR just as well as an Amarr assault, logis aren't meant for offense, while assaults are. Why should you be able to use it just as well as an assault? The DPS still has to build up gradually with the LR, so its not just a simple DPS increase, its only on the condition that you survive the gun fight long enough to build to that higher DPS. An Amarr assault with an LR and some other suit with an LR will initially have the same DPS. That makes it fair IMO. As for the SCR, the sustained DPS is functionally the same as a bigger magazine; which is what the Minmatar assault has as a bonus for sidearms. Consider this, some assault suits' current bonoses gives them extra HP (Caldari shield extender bonus), why is that more balanced? Also the Gallente's hybrid weapon fitting bonus could allow someone to save just the right amount of PG/CPU to fit a complex damage mod that they otherwise would be unable to fit, an indirectly can make one have much higher DPS (and without having to buildup to it like the LR). Why are those more balanced? I play as Amarr logi, and currently the bonuses is like having a built-in complex armor repairer, plus you get the armor repairer bonus, plus you get 2 more equipment slots, plus you get 1 more low slot (great for achieving high HP with an armor mod, or getting more speed with a kin catalyzer).
First, the Amarr logi has a sidearm slot- it's meant to be the most combat-ready logi. All logis, especially the Amarr, are meant to have non-trivial offensive capabilities. Logis do support, but that's by no means their only job. I should be able to use the LR just as well as an Amarr Assault because this restriction does not apply to any other weapon. I was certainly not saying that the Amarr Logi is less powerful overall than the Amarr assault.
All that's required to circumvent the initial build up time is a little LR preheating behind cover. Or, to put it a different way, the Amarr assault bonus makes a standard LR in their hands perform better than an ADV LR on any other suit.
For the SCR, it actually is very different than a straight clip size increase. The SCR's burst DPS, both with charge shots and uncharged shots, vastly outstrips any other weapon, including the AR. The balancing factor is the heat generation. While reduced heat generation, like clip size, does simply mean that you can fire for longer at a time, the effect on the SCR is very different than the effect on a SMG/SCP/FP. Waiting for heat to reduce is not at all the same as reloading, as you can charge the SCR during that time, or sprint, or throw grenades.
In comparison to the shield extender bonus or the Gal assault, the issue with the Amarr bonus is its extremely specific nature. Stronger shields or saving some PG/CPU is universally good and can be used in every situation, while heat reduction is either useless or incredibly good depending on your choice of weapon. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 06:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Awry Barux wrote:
In comparison to the shield extender bonus or the Gal assault, the issue with the Amarr bonus is its extremely specific nature. Stronger shields or saving some PG/CPU is universally good and can be used in every situation, while heat reduction is either useless or incredibly good depending on your choice of weapon.
...is that not the point of a role bonus? To give them a specific role using their native tech? In EVE, almost any combat ship has a 10% to their racial turret damage or fire interval. If you are using a Railgun on a Hurricane, you aren't doing it wrong, but are doing it badly. Same thing here. Put a Laser on the Amarr, and it functions better. Works for me.
I suppose I wouldn't mind it if other races got similarly restrictive-but-powerful specialization bonuses. That would be a fun mechanics shift.
It just seems odd to me that only the Amarr have this going on right now in Dust, and I think it's damaging to game balance for them to be the only ones with it. For example, I use scrambler rifles extensively on a Minmatar suit, and they're certainly not underpowered- I can get off plenty of shots before overheating (about 1.2k damage worth, in about 2 seconds using uncharged shots. It can be overheated in <1 second easily if you start with a charge shot). I just shudder to think how much better it would be on an Amarr Assault. Since I can overheat a scrambler rifle in less than a second, decreasing heat generation actually is precisely a DPS increase, especially since I don't have perfect accuracy. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 07:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Awry Barux wrote:
In comparison to the shield extender bonus or the Gal assault, the issue with the Amarr bonus is its extremely specific nature. Stronger shields or saving some PG/CPU is universally good and can be used in every situation, while heat reduction is either useless or incredibly good depending on your choice of weapon.
...is that not the point of a role bonus? To give them a specific role using their native tech? In EVE, almost any combat ship has a 10% to their racial turret damage or fire interval. If you are using a Railgun on a Hurricane, you aren't doing it wrong, but are doing it badly. Same thing here. Put a Laser on the Amarr, and it functions better. Works for me. I suppose I wouldn't mind it if other races got similarly restrictive-but-powerful specialization bonuses. That would be a fun mechanics shift. It just seems odd to me that only the Amarr have this going on right now in Dust, and I think it's damaging to game balance for them to be the only ones with it. For example, I use scrambler rifles extensively on a Minmatar suit, and they're certainly not underpowered- I can get off plenty of shots before overheating (about 1.2k damage worth, in about 2 seconds using uncharged shots. It can be overheated in <1 second easily if you start with a charge shot). I just shudder to think how much better it would be on an Amarr Assault. Since I can overheat a scrambler rifle in less than a second, decreasing heat generation actually is precisely a DPS increase, especially since I don't have perfect accuracy. It allows you to get out more shots, but it's only important in a situation where overheating or having to pause for heat venting would get you killed. If that fellow vents your skull before you hit 50% heat, having an Amarr suit wouldn't have helped you. If that fellow was taken unawares, but he had a buddy, the Amarr suit may let you have enough heatsink to kill them both.
In my experience playing a glass-cannon SCR, situations where overheating or having to pause for heat venting would get me killed is every situation. Consider the following scenario with a non-Amarr suit: I pop out, shoot a charged shot and immediately follow up with uncharged shots. Generally, I can get charge + 3 shots before a full overheat. The time from the first shot to the overheat is <.5 seconds, easily fast enough that even a Duvolle AR will not have killed me yet, even if they're just as quick as me. It's highly plausible that an armor-tanked GalLogi or a heavy will survive the entire initial burst, necessitating either a weapon switch, cover, or death. The Amarr Assault suit would allow me to squeeze off multiple extra shots in that first second or two, effectively increasing my single-target DPS over that critical 1 to 2 second window of opportunity. |
|
|
| |
|