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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
183
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Posted - 2013.09.25 19:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
I only kept seeing, "flaylock is nerfed, no-one uses it any more" type posts.
But then I looked at its stats on the wiki:
http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flaylock_Pistol
They still seem pretty good! So... what's the problem?
I'm considering switching from scrambler pistol to flaylock. What should I be aware of?
One thing I notice is that there is no rate of fire given on the wiki :( What's it like, compared to lets say a breech scrambler pistol?
hmm. no accuracy rating given on it either.
Another thing described in the writeup, though, is the rather interesting,
"armed with pack-loaded dumbfire or seeker missiles"
Umm.. heck yeah? !! Is this still true, and if so, which model gets the "seeker" ammo? I'm not expecting AV levels of seeker, but if its even slightly seeking, (as in 1-3 degrees of corrected aim) i'd be up for it.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
183
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'd say its ROF is slightly faster than a breach scrambler pistol. It has perfect accuracy but that's mitigated by rocket travel time.
[/quote]
what do you mean by "has perfect accuracy" ? |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
183
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:It's still good post nerf, but you're better off using it to open an engagement to put a dent in your target instead of relying on the gun as a finisher. Depending on how you fit your suit, you can do the latter, but cooking a grenade can do the job better..
Thanks. sounds like its good for CPU/PG limited fits, where you cant squeeze in a grenade AND a sidearm, but want that sort of capability.
and I like the "more than 3" ammo. So maybe I'll try it out.
Edit: would be kinda funny to fit it with an MD. Think of the enemy's reaction:
"ok finally he's out of ammo, time to rush him!
wait, what is.. a MINI-MD? @#$#@$!!" |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
184
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Posted - 2013.09.27 04:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:IMO, it's not as great as you think it is until you get to Advanced level. The Standard is more of a finisher, and then the GN-20/13 can still kill a Militia suit in 3 shots.
Huh... kinda sounds like knives. Funny thing, that.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
191
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Posted - 2013.09.30 17:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Awry Barux wrote:
I'd say its ROF is slightly faster than a breach scrambler pistol. It has perfect accuracy but that's mitigated by rocket travel time.
what do you mean by "has perfect accuracy" ?
Since Awry didnt reply, I'm going to follow up myself, with details on this interesting weapon.
Flaylock is unique amoung sidearms, and potentially all weapons, in that its "hip fire" mode, is MORE accurate than its "Aim-Down-Sights" mode.
First off, its important to understand that its "guidance" mentioned in its description, would seem to mean that it has zero scatter. If you are standing still, it WILL hit exactly where you are aiming at. This is why there is no "accuracy" percentage rating in its marketplace stats. It is 100%, aka "perfect accuracy".
With that in mind, the rest makes more sense.
Its crosshairs is: a teenietiny, 1-pixel-linewidth cross.
So, as mentioned, if you're standing still, it will hit *exactly* what you aim at.
Oddly, if you use aim-down-sight, you get the clean crosshairs replaced with the much more chunky physical weapon sights, which give you a LESS clear view. Never use them!
Drawbacks
- Regular rate-of-fire is about equivalent to a breech scrambler pistol, I think.
The breech flaylock is just crazy-slow.
- its projectile travel seems almost as slow as an MD round. It's not near-instantaneous, like a scrambler pistol
- very small clip
Positives
- Should make a great finisher, because its the opposite of scrambler. flaylock is strong against armor, rather than shields.
- high damage. breech flaylock gets CRAZY high damage. Probably could take out a stock militia light or scout suit with a single round.
In summary, if you would do well with the equivalent of a short-range sniper rifle, then a flaylock pistol may be the sidearm for you.
And even if you're more a run-and-gun... As Patrick said;
The ADV model GN-20/13 can take out a regular militia suit if you land all 3 shots. I did that yesterday, because some raspberry was doing a lone gunman on the back of an LAV. I stood still, aimed, and spamed R1.
Landed all 3 shots from about 40-50m away. Took him out. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
192
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Posted - 2013.09.30 17:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thanks.
Things still to look into, if someone doesnt beat me to it:
investigate truth claims of description,
"effective against infantry and armored targets"
So, check efficiency rating against vehicles and turrets.
Idealy, verify ratings against unshielded targets also.
Dropships too? Hmmm...
Not too often I have a dropship in my face, but there have been a few times.
Popping off 600 damage against the SOBs might give them pause for thought...  |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
192
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
notice that I updated post #12 with some important info about armor
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
193
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Posted - 2013.09.30 23:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
As you say, you have not actually *USED* it. So, while you bring up some potentially valid theoretical considerations, they have considerably less weight than those from an actual experienced flaylock user.
Here's some more theoretical considerations.
Your mention of the "TY-5 Breach Scrambler Pistol" is noted. However, that's a level IV skill weapon.
And it has a RpM speed roughly equivalent to a flaylock.
Unless the user is really good at head shots, the flaylock will probably do better for them, for less SP invested.
Looking at the numbers (AGAINST ARMOR ONLY) for the TY-5, with the 80% efficiency against armor, it will only do 96 body damage, compared with the flaylock's 214. For the same RpM!!
And even if you DO land a headshot.. you only get 360, vs 330 for the flaylock.
In summary: if a player's style favours a breech AR in a pistol.. then yeah great, the scrambler line wins purely through higher clip capacity.
In contrast, if a player's style can manage actually landing pistols shots in a consistent fashion, then the damage against armor numbers... not to mention the better crosshairs! favor the flaylock.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
193
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:[
And RoF
It would be like talking about an SMG and not ever mentioning DPS lol.
Someone has already mentioned, that the standard flaylock has a RoF that is (slightly) *BETTER* than the breach scrambler pistol. The one you recommended.
If you want to talk about DPS instead of RoF... then the number clearly favour the flaylock as well, so long as the person can land the shots.
If on the other hand, the person can only land a small number of pistol shots, then they are better of with either the regular scrambler, or perhaps the burst scrambler.
(or the SMG, if they are truely lacking in aim under pressure)
Odd that you also brought up splash damage, because nowhere in my posts did I mention splash damage.
I'm only talking about direct hit damage.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
194
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Posted - 2013.10.01 05:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fist Groinpunch wrote:OP, the giant flaw in your analysis is that you're equivocating the ease of getting a body shot with a scrambler pistol with the ease of getting a body shot with a flaylock pistol. That is not the case at all. The slower speed of the rocket makes this so much more difficult compared to the near instantaneous scrambler bullet.
That is a good point. Although it mostly just requires
1. close range (within 20m)
2. a slightly different timing while leading your target.
let's face it, if you're in a standoff with a pistol vs (ALMOST ANYTHING ELSE) at greater than 20m... you're probably going to lose anyway.
If, on the other hand, they have their back to you, then the slight travel time delay wont matter either.
Fist Groinpunch wrote:
On top of that, the fact that even a militia scrambler pistol has 11 rounds in the clip.
The flaylock has what, three rounds in the clip? And is way more difficult to score a hit with?
you are grossly miscomparing them.
A militia scrambler pistol, has *6* in the clip. Since after all, you're only going to be using militia if you have no skill in it.
There's only 11 in the clip if you have skill=5.
But if we're going there: then skill=5 in flaylock, gives you 7 in the clip for a standard one.
There's also the issue that if you're going to be firing off 11 pistol shots, even if you are fast on the trigger, you've still been hoping around for over 2 seconds. That's "you're dead" time, if you're up against an AR wielder.
Also, as far as your burst scrambler pistol goes.. yes sounds great for potentialy getting 1 headshot. but each shot has half damage,
So even if you score a headshot with a round.. that's only 120 damage. (or 160, if against shield).
That's barely enough to kill a level 1 scout.
If you're up against something with over 300hp, like most things, then with burst,
you'd need to either nail THREE headshots, or land ... 300/43 is roughly 7, so 7/17?
In contrast, with flaylock, you only need to land 2/7, for the kill.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
195
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 15:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Whoops. Thanks for the correction on flaylock clip. The non-expandable clip is indeed a huge drawback :(
As far as not having used stuff... I have now used flaylocks.. but I have not used burst scrambler pistol. So perhaps I am underestimating the speed of the "burst", and need to visit it, with a char actually skilled up there..
....
Daaaang it requires scrambler pistol level 4. Well, I'd hope it would be awesome, for that :)
Guess I'll have to wait to try it out. I'm not done playing around with my existing alts, and they "only" have 100,000SP free.
meanwhile, I'm perfectly willing to concede that a level 4 sidearm is better than a level 1 sidearm :D
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
195
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Especially since the gallente scout has such a big head. It's hard to miss.
I'm guessing you're a KBM user?
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
195
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Posted - 2013.10.01 18:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Huh.
What do you have your stick sensitivity set to?
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
197
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Posted - 2013.10.02 00:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Managed to get access to a burst scrambler. Impressive rate!
however, when I test-fired it against a walll. the dispersion was horribly spread out.
Seems like a very short-range weapon.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
199
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Posted - 2013.10.02 04:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:Managed to get access to a burst scrambler. Impressive rate!
however, when I test-fired it against a walll. the dispersion was horribly spread out.
Seems like a very short-range weapon.
The only pistols you should really be hipfiring are the breach variants. Like I said it has some pretty bad spread but you need to use it opposite of what you think.
The way i mangle the controller, its the opposite.
using ADS slows down my tracking too much. I cant keep up with the bouncing bunnies, nor avoid their spray.
(since it slows down your movement as well as tracking!)
Contrariwise, using hipfire with auto-aim gets me a lot of hits with regular scrambler.
Yet, when I use breech... I sometimes use ADS, since I "gotta make the one shot count"
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