DUST Search - WP threshold for orbitals will need raised in 1.5

Beren Hurin wrote:

Monkey MAC wrote:

Beren Hurin wrote:

Lets say that your squad of 6 gets 40% of the kills in a skirmish where you clone the other team. That's 60 kills. Assuming that you get ALL kills from a scan that would be 900 pts from scan kills + 180 from squad leader commendations and MAYBE +180 to +360 for defend order commendations. So scanning MIGHT help you get an additional HALF of an orbital.

Then if you include a logi, thats another 800WP from ammo, spawns, heals, revives. Then say you as a team cap 3 points thats another 300WP plus hack assists, then you hack, cru turrets and supply depots. Now all of sudden you can stack upto 3 OB as a squad. Half an orbital is lot from scanning, if we are giving out more warpoints we need to make it harder to achieve an OB without squad commendations, logistics play and scanner play.

OB is a tool for the effective team!
Are you an effective team? (Oblivion reference)

I forgot to calculate that more than one person can get points from scan kills so you could be looking at well over 1000 pts from scanning. But I realy don't think 3 OBs is too much. OBs can pretty much ensure that people don't proto stomp because they are hard to defend against.

They could do a lot of different things with WP. Like give you 25% more WP for being in the right suit for your actions.

-Heavies/assaults get +65 pts for kills while logistics get +35 and scouts +50.
-Logistics players get the most points (+25%) for reps (+30)/hacking(+20%)/revives(+75)
-Scouts get the most points for scanning, spawns, and assists.
-Commandos give squads a +30% commendation bonus rather than a +20%

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Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 1783	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:01:00 - [1] - Quote Well, actually it needed raised in 1.(whatever patch raised squad size to 6 but kept orbital price the same). combine that with new WP mechanics for things like active scanning and you're going to be seeing a bit too many nukes.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1219	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:03:00 - [2] - Quote CCP shouldn't give WPs for killed scanned targets period.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 414	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:08:00 - [3] - Quote You have to remember not everyone plays in a full squad all the time. Scanning does need WPs as well and im happy they are adding it, I just hope it'll work for vehicle scanners.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1422	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:10:00 - [4] - Quote Shh, I like playing OB saturation to AC/DC's thunderstruck.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1219	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:20:00 - [5] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: You have to remember not everyone plays in a full squad all the time. Scanning does need WPs as well and im happy they are adding it, I just hope it'll work for vehicle scanners. Say it's the old man pumping his fist syndrome, but the fact is most people will get it to WP horde. Not for the basis of helping their team. Like the OP stated, everyone is going to get scanners now. Which also nullifies the changes to the radar. Everyone will have a scanner besides the heavy. And everybody will be on radar constantly. I think a backlash is going to come out of this. If it doesn't, great. But it doesn't feel right. This will bring about more QQ threads. More people not sticking with their roles. If you weren't out to help your team in the first place, why are you getting WPs for doing something that you wouldn't normally do without it? Some things just shouldn't be rewarded. My reward is helping the teammates locate the enemies, I didn't need WPs to justify its usage. The strategy and element of New Eden does.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 1783	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:24:00 - [6] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: You have to remember not everyone plays in a full squad all the time. Scanning does need WPs as well and im happy they are adding it, I just hope it'll work for vehicle scanners. Say it's the old man pumping his fist syndrome, but the fact is most people will get it to WP horde. Not for the basis of helping their team. Like the OP stated, everyone is going to get scanners now. Which also nullifies the changes to the radar. Everyone will have a scanner besides the heavy. And everybody will be on radar constantly. I think a backlash is going to come out of this. If it doesn't, great. But it doesn't feel right. This will bring about more QQ threads. More people not sticking with their roles. If you weren't out to help your team in the first place, why are you getting WPs for doing something that you wouldn't normally do without it? Some things just shouldn't be rewarded. My reward is helping the teammates locate the enemies, I didn't need WPs to justify its usage. The strategy and element of New Eden does. I never said everyone was going to get scanners now... In fact I'm not even going to get a scanner. wat
Vin Vicious Capital Acquisitions LLC Public Disorder. 517	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:24:00 - [7] - Quote No they just need to remove them from ambush mode and were good
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1422	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:27:00 - [8] - Quote I'd push for a more incremental reward... say 5 WP or something. If it is small enough then you can apply it to all kinds of situations without really providing an inappropriate incentive. You could reward WP for finally killing a player (sniper, tank, whatever) that had a kill streak of more than N victims, for example. We could also get a reward, no matter how minimal, for counter-hacking an objective. You could also do things like award 1 WP for each 1000 damage causes to suits and vehicles during the game (round down to the nearest 5). Basically, you can start to measure actual contributions -- which may be more valuable than blowing up installations on your own end of the field that nobody has claimed yet.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1219	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:27:00 - [9] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: You have to remember not everyone plays in a full squad all the time. Scanning does need WPs as well and im happy they are adding it, I just hope it'll work for vehicle scanners. Say it's the old man pumping his fist syndrome, but the fact is most people will get it to WP horde. Not for the basis of helping their team. Like the OP stated, everyone is going to get scanners now. Which also nullifies the changes to the radar. Everyone will have a scanner besides the heavy. And everybody will be on radar constantly. I think a backlash is going to come out of this. If it doesn't, great. But it doesn't feel right. This will bring about more QQ threads. More people not sticking with their roles. If you weren't out to help your team in the first place, why are you getting WPs for doing something that you wouldn't normally do without it? Some things just shouldn't be rewarded. My reward is helping the teammates locate the enemies, I didn't need WPs to justify its usage. The strategy and element of New Eden does. I never said everyone was going to get scanners now... In fact I'm not even going to get a scanner. wat Ok. You didn't word it as such. But how else are you going suggest that Precision strikes will come quicker? Why, because squad members are scanning left and right. It's the end result. This will be picked up by other squads as well. So yea, its pretty inevitable that the majority of folks will fit scanners for solely WP gain.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 1784	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:29:00 - [10] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: You have to remember not everyone plays in a full squad all the time. Scanning does need WPs as well and im happy they are adding it, I just hope it'll work for vehicle scanners. Say it's the old man pumping his fist syndrome, but the fact is most people will get it to WP horde. Not for the basis of helping their team. Like the OP stated, everyone is going to get scanners now. Which also nullifies the changes to the radar. Everyone will have a scanner besides the heavy. And everybody will be on radar constantly. I think a backlash is going to come out of this. If it doesn't, great. But it doesn't feel right. This will bring about more QQ threads. More people not sticking with their roles. If you weren't out to help your team in the first place, why are you getting WPs for doing something that you wouldn't normally do without it? Some things just shouldn't be rewarded. My reward is helping the teammates locate the enemies, I didn't need WPs to justify its usage. The strategy and element of New Eden does. I never said everyone was going to get scanners now... In fact I'm not even going to get a scanner. wat Ok. You didn't word it as such. But how else are you going suggest that Precision strikes will come quicker? Why, because squad members are scanning left and right. It's the end result. This will be picked up by other squads as well. So yea, its pretty inevitable that the majority of folks will fit scanners for. uh. Because people using scanners already will now be getting some WP for their contributions. Sure some people will spec into it. I don't think everyone is going to trade their suits to spin in circles scanning all day as you imagine.

dustwaffle The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 578	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:41:00 - [11] - Quote Guessing a lot of people will have at least basic active scanners. While I used to think we should get WP for scanners, 1.4 has made me realise that we don't need THAT much WP reward, or probably little to none, since active scanners really help your team out a lot in itself. Now, better reward for winning matches would balance low WP gain imo. Also, with everyone running scanners, dampened proto scouts may actually be a viable tactic? /shrugs
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1220	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:42:00 - [12] - Quote The majority of the community are opportunists not strategists. You are missing that point. When the flaylock was nerfed, didn't you see a decrease in its use? What about the infamous MD? Weren't there a drop there too? So you have to wonder, were those users into it because they liked the weapon or was it because it was easier to kill with? They were being opportunists. So with that data in mind, I no doubt believe that people who didn't even think about scanners are going to jump right into it because of the WPs attributed to it.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 1785	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:51:00 - [13] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: The majority of the community are opportunists not strategists. You are missing that point. When the flaylock was nerfed, didn't you see a decrease in its use? What about the infamous MD? Weren't there a drop there too? So you have to wonder, were those users into it because they liked the weapon or was it because it was easier to kill with? They were being opportunists. So with that data in mind, I no doubt believe that people who didn't even think about scanners are going to jump right into it because of the WPs attributed to it. but they could easily get better WP for other things. Plus it required a squad to get any WP. Plus it's not really that much, and their targets need to be killed BY squad members. This is already one of the least exploitable WP farming methods in the game lol. Have you met my friend Nano-spam-circle? You may have seen him. He's a cluster of 2-6 players sitting in a corner near the MCC throwing nano hives and firing their militia AR's off into the air for a circle jerk of free WP.
Cosgar ParagonX 5444	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:56:00 - [14] - Quote WP threshold should've been raised back in 1.0 when we got 6 man squads. Or we need more things to use WP for like installations and purchasing clone packs.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 714	Posted - 2013.09.25 08:59:00 - [15] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: You have to remember not everyone plays in a full squad all the time. Scanning does need WPs as well and im happy they are adding it, I just hope it'll work for vehicle scanners. Say it's the old man pumping his fist syndrome, but the fact is most people will get it to WP horde. Not for the basis of helping their team. Like the OP stated, everyone is going to get scanners now. Which also nullifies the changes to the radar. Everyone will have a scanner besides the heavy. And everybody will be on radar constantly. I think a backlash is going to come out of this. If it doesn't, great. But it doesn't feel right. This will bring about more QQ threads. More people not sticking with their roles. If you weren't out to help your team in the first place, why are you getting WPs for doing something that you wouldn't normally do without it? Some things just shouldn't be rewarded. My reward is helping the teammates locate the enemies, I didn't need WPs to justify its usage. The strategy and element of New Eden does. I don't think you are going be rewarded if you scan then kill your own scanned target. Not everyone will carry scanners, many people will still use guns What will happen is people will begin squading with a scanner user. Multiple scanner users per squad will be useless because you will sacrifice manpower to achieve it. I think its important to give warpoints as active scanning is one of the scouts jobs its already a thankless task for scouts, but denying them WP would be to spit in their face. The introduction of more WP rewards does warrant a higher OB threshold, Ill agree with the OP their! But I think .5 will cause a similar stir to .4 day one did. The first few days everyone wore brick tanked suits stood in the open and shot each other continously until 1 popped. But now I see flanking tactics, suppression, use of cover, more than ever before! The tension is jacked up, buf the pace is slower! I think we will see a lot of scanners again at the begining of .5 but normality will return, just with a little added tactic!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 714	Posted - 2013.09.25 09:07:00 - [16] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: I'd push for a more incremental reward... say 5 WP or something. If it is small enough then you can apply it to all kinds of situations without really providing an inappropriate incentive. You could reward WP for finally killing a player (sniper, tank, whatever) that had a kill streak of more than N victims, for example. We could also get a reward, no matter how minimal, for counter-hacking an objective. You could also do things like award 1 WP for each 1000 damage causes to suits and vehicles during the game (round down to the nearest 5). Basically, you can start to measure actual contributions -- which may be more valuable than blowing up installations on your own end of the field that nobody has claimed yet. I think buzzkill or goliath kills are to COD like. Counter hacking neecs warpoints. 50 would suffice. Damage again is a difficult 1, you would end up having to remove or severly curtail kill WP, you need to be careful. Also it'll be annoying for Suit Damage +1 Pop up every few seconds what we should reward are things like vehicles giving lifts/transport suppresion/diversion of enemies guardian angel shots that kinda thing!
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1711	Posted - 2013.09.25 09:43:00 - [17] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: CCP shouldn't give WPs for killed scanned targets period. CCP shouldn't give WP for anything, period.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1429	Posted - 2013.09.25 11:43:00 - [18] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Also it'll be annoying for Suit Damage +1 Pop up every few seconds Yeah, I wouldn't image that happening... at the end of the match it shows damage done vs damage taken -- which could drive such a calculation. I'm all for putting the WP in for the usefulness of the action. For example, using a nanohive without having caused damage to anything could result in zero WP for the person who dropped the hive. So much for the nanohive circle-jerk being a viable tactic. There are a lot of opportunistic folks out there.
D34NOS MAZDA Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 167	Posted - 2013.09.25 11:52:00 - [19] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: Well, actually it needed raised in 1.(whatever patch raised squad size to 6 but kept orbital price the same). combine that with new WP mechanics for things like active scanning and you're going to be seeing a bit too many nukes. But I like getting OB's by myself when running solo really pisses off the other team.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1692	Posted - 2013.09.25 11:58:00 - [20] - Quote Lets say that your squad of 6 gets 40% of the kills in a skirmish where you clone the other team. That's 60 kills. Assuming that you get ALL kills from a scan that would be 900 pts from scan kills + 180 from squad leader commendations and MAYBE +180 to +360 for defend order commendations. So scanning MIGHT help you get an additional HALF of an orbital.

Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 721	Posted - 2013.09.25 11:59:00 - [21] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Also it'll be annoying for Suit Damage +1 Pop up every few seconds Yeah, I wouldn't image that happening... at the end of the match it shows damage done vs damage taken -- which could drive such a calculation. I'm all for putting the WP in for the usefulness of the action. For example, using a nanohive without having caused damage to anything could result in zero WP for the person who dropped the hive. So much for the nanohive circle-jerk being a viable tactic. There are a lot of opportunistic folks out there. Fair enough, but consider that your starting to get into rather prescise requirements, which all in all will slow down the game! Im all for stopping nanohive boosting I think that prehaps you should be rewarded more or less points for the kill or assist based on the damage you do. I mean mass drivers are designed to mop up damaged enemies but a problem persits where I end up kill stealing (not intentionally), from my squad mates, I get lots of juicy WP for putting 70 damage on em' But if your are gonna base an SP bonus on damage dealt, forge gunners are gonna be rolling SP they give out upwards of 6000 per mag so thats an extra 6wp for everh shot that hits a target!
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1714	Posted - 2013.09.25 11:59:00 - [22] - Quote well since CCP thinks the average player gets 100wp they should lower it to only 1,000 wp.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 721	Posted - 2013.09.25 12:05:00 - [23] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Lets say that your squad of 6 gets 40% of the kills in a skirmish where you clone the other team. That's 60 kills. Assuming that you get ALL kills from a scan that would be 900 pts from scan kills + 180 from squad leader commendations and MAYBE +180 to +360 for defend order commendations. So scanning MIGHT help you get an additional HALF of an orbital. Then if you include a logi, thats another 800WP from ammo, spawns, heals, revives. Then say you as a team cap 3 points thats another 300WP plus hack assists, then you hack, cru turrets and supply depots. Now all of sudden you can stack upto 3 OB as a squad. Half an orbital is lot from scanning, if we are giving out more warpoints we need to make it harder to achieve an OB without squad commendations, logistics play and scanner play. OB is a tool for the effective team! Are you an effective team? (Oblivion reference)
Cosgar ParagonX 5445	Posted - 2013.09.25 12:12:00 - [24] - Quote ladwar wrote: Michael Arck wrote: CCP shouldn't give WPs for killed scanned targets period. CCP shouldn't give WP for anything, period. Yeah, let's completely destroy any reason to play logistics. We're already getting nerfed to hell anyway right?
Knight Soiaire Better Hide R Die 2455	Posted - 2013.09.25 12:17:00 - [25] - Quote Its so easy to get OBs, even if you are solo.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1714	Posted - 2013.09.25 12:19:00 - [26] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ladwar wrote: Michael Arck wrote: CCP shouldn't give WPs for killed scanned targets period. CCP shouldn't give WP for anything, period. Yeah, let's completely destroy any reason to play logistics. We're already getting nerfed to hell anyway right? kill +0 WP hack +0 wp MCC kill +0 wp suicide other teammates +0 wp i love it. no more orbitals, ever again. honestly i do have an idea for match maker fails. just like other ranked matches, a battle rank. yea at first there will be no data but then once its been running for a while it'll balance itself out. kill a hit ranked guy +12 die from a noob -3 might as well go full MMO with matchmaker.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1692	Posted - 2013.09.25 12:26:00 - [27] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Lets say that your squad of 6 gets 40% of the kills in a skirmish where you clone the other team. That's 60 kills. Assuming that you get ALL kills from a scan that would be 900 pts from scan kills + 180 from squad leader commendations and MAYBE +180 to +360 for defend order commendations. So scanning MIGHT help you get an additional HALF of an orbital. Then if you include a logi, thats another 800WP from ammo, spawns, heals, revives. Then say you as a team cap 3 points thats another 300WP plus hack assists, then you hack, cru turrets and supply depots. Now all of sudden you can stack upto 3 OB as a squad. Half an orbital is lot from scanning, if we are giving out more warpoints we need to make it harder to achieve an OB without squad commendations, logistics play and scanner play. OB is a tool for the effective team! Are you an effective team? (Oblivion reference) I forgot to calculate that more than one person can get points from scan kills so you could be looking at well over 1000 pts from scanning. But I realy don't think 3 OBs is too much. OBs can pretty much ensure that people don't proto stomp because they are hard to defend against. They could do a lot of different things with WP. Like give you 25% more WP for being in the right suit for your actions. -Heavies/assaults get +65 pts for kills while logistics get +35 and scouts +50. -Logistics players get the most points (+25%) for reps (+30)/hacking(+20%)/revives(+75) -Scouts get the most points for scanning, spawns, and assists. -Commandos give squads a +30% commendation bonus rather than a +20%
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 722	Posted - 2013.09.25 12:36:00 - [28] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Lets say that your squad of 6 gets 40% of the kills in a skirmish where you clone the other team. That's 60 kills. Assuming that you get ALL kills from a scan that would be 900 pts from scan kills + 180 from squad leader commendations and MAYBE +180 to +360 for defend order commendations. So scanning MIGHT help you get an additional HALF of an orbital. Then if you include a logi, thats another 800WP from ammo, spawns, heals, revives. Then say you as a team cap 3 points thats another 300WP plus hack assists, then you hack, cru turrets and supply depots. Now all of sudden you can stack upto 3 OB as a squad. Half an orbital is lot from scanning, if we are giving out more warpoints we need to make it harder to achieve an OB without squad commendations, logistics play and scanner play. OB is a tool for the effective team! Are you an effective team? (Oblivion reference) I forgot to calculate that more than one person can get points from scan kills so you could be looking at well over 1000 pts from scanning. But I realy don't think 3 OBs is too much. OBs can pretty much ensure that people don't proto stomp because they are hard to defend against. They could do a lot of different things with WP. Like give you 25% more WP for being in the right suit for your actions. -Heavies/assaults get +65 pts for kills while logistics get +35 and scouts +50. -Logistics players get the most points (+25%) for reps (+30)/hacking(+20%)/revives(+75) -Scouts get the most points for scanning, spawns, and assists. -Commandos give squads a +30% commendation bonus rather than a +20% Now before I discuss your second part, Ill just consider something, if you don't mind! "OB can pretty much ensure people don't proto stomp" Now I understand what your saying having plenty of OB stikes stop people running proto for fear of loosing money. Fine, it makes sense. But if a proto squad is stomping they can stack upto 6 OB, Ive been on the recieving end. And basically who ever earns the first orbital can supress the other team indefinitely. So of the 2 ways to stop it is 1. Make OB drops rare, only a highly organised, diverse and effective team can earn their devastating power. 2. Give different OB limits to squads based on the average metalevel of gear! As for giving suits different bonuses for completing roles, I think it could be a potential master stroke. But you should never penalise a character for doing something not necessarily expected of him.
Cosgar ParagonX 5445	Posted - 2013.09.25 12:38:00 - [29] - Quote ladwar wrote: Cosgar wrote: ladwar wrote: Michael Arck wrote: CCP shouldn't give WPs for killed scanned targets period. CCP shouldn't give WP for anything, period. Yeah, let's completely destroy any reason to play logistics. We're already getting nerfed to hell anyway right? kill +0 WP hack +0 wp MCC kill +0 wp suicide other teammates +0 wp i love it. no more orbitals, ever again. honestly i do have an idea for match maker fails. just like other ranked matches, a battle rank. yea at first there will be no data but then once its been running for a while it'll balance itself out. kill a hit ranked guy +12 die from a noob -3 might as well go full MMO with matchmaker. What happens when you're capped then?


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