Oxskull Duncarino
Shadow Company HQ
223
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Posted - 2013.09.24 08:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:
I remember using M-16 AR and those had 30 bullets per banana clip magazine back when the calendar said 1980..
So why does the Dust 514 AR have 60 bullets per magazine??
I notice the reload skills but when I ask AR using folks about them they say why bother when the AR has 60 bullets per magazine??
I was wondering if perhaps its time to make reload skills more relevant by reducing the AR magazine size down to 30 bullets for militia AR and 40 for regular AR.
I am thinking this perhaps help balance the ARs more.
???
This what I really don't get with ye lot. You attempt to make a point or have a debate about balancing in this game, but you more or less ruin it by A: Equating it to real life B: What you equate it to being so out of sync with what is actually real.
Standard mag sizes with standard calibur cased rounds for military assault rifles/carbines come in 30 round mags. Present tech using caseless rounds, different bullet design, and improved magazines easily have 150% of the mag capacities in general usage. Even without using caseless rounds the P90 has a 50 round mag due to cartridge design and the mag design and feed design. If ceaseless rounds were used in the design then even more rounds would go into the same space. Honestly, modern day tech is easily able to field capacities like what we see in Dust. Ya do yourself a disfavor by even comparing the two. I'd expect to have even larger mags again due to bullet design in both material and shape, aswell as the propellant required being miniscule.
Just so we're clear, I've been fully hmg since Christmas, and run a commando suit wit a primary of a laser and a secondary either shotgun or AR. Mag sizes are grand. Now that hit detection is working well, damage can be looked at. Reducing the mag is the wrong way. Reduce the damage, and have set recoil per round, not gradually build over time. And I don't think any balance should be attempt till more racial weapons are in to balance against.
Back to my main point though. Go ahead and use present knowledge to suggest potential directions for Dust weapons, but saying the balance/design of weapons in a sci-fi game based on a space travelling culture far in the future should be done around present day weapon designs that are at an epoch as it is, is idiocy of the highest order. Unfortunately that idiocy is shared by many on this forum. I don't really care if you get offended by what I've typed, but I do hope you have a better think about what you type in future.
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Oxskull Duncarino
Shadow Company HQ
225
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Reducing the Clipsize of the GAR is a tricky one as you would need to reduce the Clipsize of all automatic weapons as well. Just because you don't like a weapon does not mean it is totally unbalanced. The AR needs the correct DPS Range profile: High DPS (highest Dps of all AR) and low Range (lowest Range of all ARs) thats it. If you simply reduce the Clipsize of the AR the AsCR would become king: similar DPS, similar Range and similar Dispersion without barrel climb (all in all a stupid concept to make both weapons that similar). And if you are afraid of DPS or Damage per clip have a look at the other Automatic weapons: Scrambler Rifle (std): DPS: 840+ Damage per Clip: 3240 Clipsize: 45 AsCR (adv): DPS: 444 Damage per Clip: 2721 Clipsize: 72 TAR (adv) DPS: 500 Damage per Clip: 1350 Clipszie: 18 Assault Rifle Std: DPS: 425 Damage per Clip: 2040 Clipsize: 60 HMG (std) DPS: 533 Damage per Clip: 6800 Clipsize:450 SMG (std) DPS: 350 Damage per Clip:1680 Clipsize: 80 So in general the GAR is in a good place IMHO. Regarding Recoil and Dispersion have a look here the vids show that the GAR isn't that much more accurate than the AsCR unless it comes to skill. People tend to forget how much the GAR benefits from skills in terms of accuracy and of course people have learned to handle the recoil/dispersion the AR has so it becomes a non factor but thats not the fault of the weapon.... On a sidenote I wouldn't mind a bit more Recoil and Dispersion but honestly i think that would change things only for one or two weeks until people have adapted (that was what happened the last time they increased Recoil and Dispersion on that weapon). Except the scambler overheats and provides feedback damage. HMG overheats and the user is vulnerable for ten seconds. Laser has feedback damage. SMG is terrible versus shields since its a sidearm. The problem with the AR is right now it outperforms a HMG at five paces in CQC. The AR needs a tone down via haveing to pause to reload.
It is definitely an issue that the AR doesn't have any real downsides to use like the above weapons. With a little bit of pulse fire, which is easy to do, recoil is a non factor. As it stands recoil only seems to crop up after a certain amount of time has been spent firing, and 1 second pulse firing prevents it.This should be changed to recoil per shot, forcing those that want to have accurate midrange fire to have very good burst control, and those in CQB to exercise the same trigger finger control if they want head shots, or just hold down the trigger and dump the rounds at the center of the body.
By the way, if you find that an AR out preforms your HMG at 5m, in my part of the world a pace is a rough measure for a metre, then you mightn't be suited to running HMG. Inbetween 5-15m the HMG shreds similar level and gun AR toting tangos 1 on 1. I'm at 21mil SP as a dedicated heavy HMG user and it wrecks my head when people throw garbage comments out about what they don't know or can't use. Inside 5m can be tough due to faster movement and bunny hopping for sure but it is still good. |
Oxskull Duncarino
Shadow Company HQ
225
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 22:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:I can only say, thankfully I don't really care about this game anymore, what most of you are suggesting that ccp do is plainly silly.
I fought against most of you an know that you would rather produce a ruckus on the forums than improve this game.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE AR'S.
You know what I have a problem with, laser rifles.... why because they can shoot for longer than I can with an AR and have to reload, which means they just use the thing as a laser pointer and keep it up no matter how fast or for how long I have to run to in order to get to cover, I'm usually dead before the gun finishes reloading.....but then again each one of these players is probably running around with an unlicensed nuclear pack on their backs otherwise where is the power coming from.... some little nano?
Scrambler rifle, it is an AR with a charged shot and a scope.
Mass Driver, just keep raining shots down on your enemy with the bonus of effecting the enemies aim.
The HMG is just like a SMG with a larger clip.
Snipers and Forge gunners just seem to hide in the redline or up on someplace elevated.
All I see in this thread is some overly grandoised statements with a lot of blah blah blah; the only thing not discussed is that it is rarely a 1vs1 fight and it is normally a 1 vs 4 or 5 as the enemy has already slaughtered most of the guys coming with me.
So many heavies comlaining about the AR, yet why are the heavies not using a forge gun when there is a enemy vehicle on the field?
While I agree with ya about alot of the ideas here, if they are civil and somewhat thought out, let them at it. It's called brain storming. It mightn't be alot of people on these forums strong point but, such is life. At least they are trying unlike your banging of your heels.
I hate people that whing like yourself.
1- The laser as you said is like a pointer. Try using something in the plentiful Dust arsenal to follow that bright beam all the way back to the soft squelchy operator, like another laser, a sniper rifle, a tac rifle, a forgegun, or even, now hold onto your seat, TACTICS. That last one covers using a counter weapon as well as flanking, directing friendly units in better counter positions, etc. You're the exact type that is not helpful in any discussion on balance as all you did was cry that you weapon didn't work well enough outside of its optimum range and you got melded in the optimum range of another weapon 
2- Semi-auto scrambler rifle has great balance to it, and is most definitely not the same as the Gallente blaster rifle with a few attachments. Have you ever actually run with one for longer then a quick run around a supply depot?
3- The mass driver does need work in my view like a minimum arming distance, but all its other features I like. It gives it a nice difference. I can't stand the smoke etc when a round hits beside me but it's a nice effects for the weapon that I can appreciate.
4- So, a HMG is just like an SMG is it? Ya might want to look at the different fire rates of all variants. I'd tell ya to work out damage outputs put I'm figuring that might be beyond ya.
5- If you find that your mostly dying due to it being alot of 1 v 4 etc after the rest of you squad died, and this keeps on happening, then it is very possible that your squad suffer from the same lack of tactics that you do. If after trying different approach there is still no success then try finding another possibly softer wall to butt your head against before the brain damage has kicked in too much.
6- Right, all us HMG operators that are doing point defence, on hearing the callout of an enemy vehicle should drop everything we are doing and race off to find a depot to switch to a forge gun. Again, BIG AVAILABLE DUST ARSENAL. Try it out. On top of forgeguns we have proximity explosives, remote explosives, anti armour grenades, swarm launchers, and plasma cannons  . But hey, that probably isn't something you're going to do because you still sitting in the corner crying over your AR.
I'm luck to be at a point SP wise where I've my HMG, forge, suit, sidearm, and necessary core skills maxed, and have been able to dig in all the other weapons and classes aside from scout since I suck at it, and all are viable. Well, I'll be honest that the plasma cannon really takes a massive amount of skill and/or luck to use as AV, but I've seen people do so.
Try standing back and take a good look at everything rather than doing the exact thing you accuse others of. Or keep doing what your doing as plenty of people around here love tears. |