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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
3441
   |
Posted - 2013.09.24 21:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:XANDER KAG wrote:Just a correction there Adamance, we weren't split in two exactly, only the Nefantar tribe sided with the Amarr and that wasn't during the rebellion, but during the initial reclaiming.
((In reality it was to start buying up all the Starkimir slaves to save them from being completely wiped out, no one knows this but the elders and a few of the Amatar/Nefantar though. An Amarrian general wanted revenge because a Starkimir killed the head of his house or something. I'll need to look it up again to be sure.)) That's right, you also mentioned the Starkimir who I was going to ask about.
Khu-Arzad and what he did for the Starkmanir is one of the main reasons I have respect for the Amarrians.
At the same time, Ardishapur is one of the main reasons I despise them so. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
3444
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 22:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:True Adamance wrote:XANDER KAG wrote:Just a correction there Adamance, we weren't split in two exactly, only the Nefantar tribe sided with the Amarr and that wasn't during the rebellion, but during the initial reclaiming.
((In reality it was to start buying up all the Starkimir slaves to save them from being completely wiped out, no one knows this but the elders and a few of the Amatar/Nefantar though. An Amarrian general wanted revenge because a Starkimir killed the head of his house or something. I'll need to look it up again to be sure.)) That's right, you also mentioned the Starkimir who I was going to ask about. Khu-Arzad and what he did for the Starkmanir is one of the main reasons I have respect for the Amarrians. At the same time, Ardishapur is one of the main reasons I despise them so. Yet Articio Kor Azor was able to somewhat make amends for Ardishapurs sins, and his own.
Tearing down a people like Ardishapur did is hardly a redeemable act. You can try to make amends, but the fact is that it happened.
And wait... Aritcio Kor-Azor making amends? You must be joking. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
3445
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 22:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Indeed he was a changed man after his visit from the Speak of Truth.
Again - He committed countless atrocities once. It hardly redeems a people when the characters you'd hold up as the best in your society were once so despicable. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
3458
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 18:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:itsmellslikefish wrote:True Adamance wrote:
Traditionally a Matari warrior would say he is fighting for Freedom for his people (an Ideal inspired by the Gallente), Revenge against the Amarr for the enslavement of his people, because they have something to prove. Under the surface their is a lot of bitterness against the Amarr in some cases unwarranted ( the chronicle where a bitter Matari man cannot understand why the Ammatar love being a part of the Empire, in the end he kills his own people because he is bitter).
I am not 100% sure but this seems just a wee bit biased. How so. It is what happened.
I have cut down your initial statement to indicate the bit which I feel is the most biased.
You don't know what drives the Minmatar if you think it's because 'They have something to prove', and that's a poor attempt at making them look petty.
As if the enslavement - and it was enslavement, not 'spiritual purification' - was a minor thing and holding a grudge about it was a silly thing to do.
Aero Yassavi wrote:itsmellslikefish wrote:
I am not 100% sure but this seems just a wee bit biased.
There is nothing bias except for the part where he clearly states the beginning of his propaganda. Everything above that is unarguable historical facts.
Similarly, see above.
There are numerous points in the 'unarguable historical facts' which are obviously slanted towards showing the Amarrians in a favourable light. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
3502
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Freedom given, or assumed given, is meaningless, and a cage of complacency and entitlement that sheathes the mind. Freedom earned through toil, is valuable, freedom earned in the service of a higher cause is a key that will open your mind to greater possibilities.
The very idea of your 'freedom' being achieved through forced labour is disgusting.
That runs completely against the very definition of the word. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
3545
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Continuing from Aero's point. They also end up in a political system that means even should they want to exercise their rights to freedom and liberty and leave the Federation they are not able to because of the threat of military response.
I suppose you are referring to the Caldari here.
You are aware they razed one of our cities and killed every single person there, yes? |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
3545
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:True Adamance wrote:
Continuing from Aero's point. They also end up in a political system that means even should they want to exercise their rights to freedom and liberty and leave the Federation they are not able to because of the threat of military response.
I suppose you are referring to the Caldari here. You are aware they razed one of our cities and killed every single person there, yes? A terrorist wing, not affiliated with the State itself. I am also aware that there was significant destruction of Caldari Prime, and many casualties when the Gallente took the planet.
And yet that was the catalyst, not the mere act of leaving the Federation. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
3553
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
And yet that was the catalyst, not the mere act of leaving the Federation.
Yet you still would not let people who did not instigate the attack, nor had anything in common but race, go?
We let them go just fine, until they killed our people.
Do you seriously think any empire would simply stand by and do nothing when their cities were being razed?
And you are hardly one to point the finger of blame for unjust orbital bombardments. I seem to recall you murdered almost an entire people simply for adapting your religion slightly to their own ways. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
3556
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:True Adamance wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
And yet that was the catalyst, not the mere act of leaving the Federation.
Yet you still would not let people who did not instigate the attack, nor had anything in common but race, go? We let them go just fine, until they killed our people. Do you seriously think any empire would simply stand by and do nothing when their cities were being razed? And you are hardly one to point the finger of blame for unjust orbital bombardments. I seem to recall you murdered almost an entire people simply for adapting your religion slightly to their own ways. We were not discussing my religion, though I won't deny it, God's word is not adaptable, it is a truth. I am much saddened that we were forced to take such a destructive course, but God's mercy is limited. We were discussing how the Federations reluctance to let the Caldari see to their own affairs, and their seemingly lack of contriteness for killing millions of Caldari on their home world. Please do not go off topic.
Please do not go off topic? You were the one who first strayed from the initial topic of the Minmatar to start bashing on the Federation.
I would point out that it was one of your own people who allowed, even encouraged and suggested the Minmatar incorporate your religion into their ways. It's also rather ironic that you should say we're reluctant to allow others to see to their own affairs when you enslave so many.
Of course we're not contrite for killing Caldari. They killed our people first. You can of course claim it's a terrorist group, but what empire would genuinely stand by whilst its people are butchered?
The Gallente-Caldari war is a long history of atrocities, but the Caldari started the killing first. |
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