DUST Search - {[Request]} [Snipers] Proposed Sniper Mechanics (How to Make Snipers Better)

Vesago Ghostcore wrote:

Synbot wrote:

Bullet Mechanics

Currently our bullets travel at a set line. Much unrealistic, even for high tech equipment. This decreases the amount of skill you need to use this weapon, making it easier to use than most other games. Being a sniper SHOULD take skill, this is not like an assault rifle. This weapon has the potential to take you out in one shot, and making it easy to use makes no sense at all. It's as easy as putting the dot on the enemy and press the trigger. Far too easy. Providing these mechanics will make these snipers more realistic, give them more depth, and require players to use more skill.

Bullet drop

Bullet delay

Bullet drop is an almost must-have with a shooter that spans across different planets. Each planet has varying gravity of course. It's simple. Planets with high gravity increases bullet drop intensity. Vise versa. Wind should also be a factor, the dust that violently blows in some of these maps doesn't even effect our bullet's path. That's quite amazing. Even with high tech weaponry, this should STILL be a factor. Using the crosshairs, as previously mentioned, to compensate for bullet drop and delay would increase the required skill to use these weapons. This is a common sense mechanic that should have been implemented from the get-go. In reality, nearly all weapons should have this mechanic (with the exception of the laser of course).

I think that if these mechanics were to happen, which would make the game more interesting for snipers in my opinion, there is one thing that needs to be buffed. We snipers would need more ammo, and larger magazines... taking test shots to figure for range wind and bullet drop would use the very very limited ammunition supply we are given.

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Synbot Expert Intervention Caldari State 146	Posted - 2013.09.22 01:12:00 - [1] - Quote This will be a long read. A TL;DR will NOT be provided. If you don't have the time, patience, or if snipers don't interest you, this thread is not for you. If you are in support of this proposal/request, please give a +1, reply/give me your feedback. If you do not support this, please leave your constructive input. I believe my proposition would make snipers more realistic, fun, and require more skill to use without penalizing it or making it too overpowered. The proposition goes by the following points. Zoom Mechanics Currently we are only able to use a SET zoom. This is bad because it does not allow snipers to adjust to their environment, which is a crucial part of being a sniper. A sniper MUST adjust to their environment, otherwise they could be nothing more than ineffective. Having a set zoom penalizes snipers, increasing the difficulty of acquiring a headshot at LONG ranges. This is a LONG ranged weapon, why should it be penalized at long ranges? My proposal will nullify this penalty by providing these mechanics. Ability to adjust your zoom Horizontal and vertical crosshairs While looking through your scope you can use two set buttons on your DS3 or KB to adjust your zoom. You'll be able to zoom much like how a camera zooms. Variants that currently provide increased zoom fidelity would give you the ability to further increase your zoom. Horizontal and vertical crosshairs tie in with the next segment, this should be implemented for obvious reasons, as I'll demonstrate next. Bullet Mechanics Currently our bullets travel at a set line. Much unrealistic, even for high tech equipment. This decreases the amount of skill you need to use this weapon, making it easier to use than most other games. Being a sniper SHOULD take skill, this is not like an assault rifle. This weapon has the potential to take you out in one shot, and making it easy to use makes no sense at all. It's as easy as putting the dot on the enemy and press the trigger. Far too easy. Providing these mechanics will make these snipers more realistic, give them more depth, and require players to use more skill. Bullet drop Bullet delay Bullet drop is an almost must-have with a shooter that spans across different planets. Each planet has varying gravity of course. It's simple. Planets with high gravity increases bullet drop intensity. Vise versa. Wind should also be a factor, the dust that violently blows in some of these maps doesn't even effect our bullet's path. That's quite amazing. Even with high tech weaponry, this should STILL be a factor. Using the crosshairs, as previously mentioned, to compensate for bullet drop and delay would increase the required skill to use these weapons. This is a common sense mechanic that should have been implemented from the get-go. In reality, nearly all weapons should have this mechanic (with the exception of the laser of course). Hit Detection Mechanics Hit detection is off. This should be dealt with as soon as possible. This should be the priority above all. There's no sense in having weapon restats if the weapon's hit detection is messed up to begin with. With 1.4 there was improvement, and I thank CCP for this, but the problem persists. Not only do we need better hit detection, but mechanics that go with it. And most of these points should, of course, be added to ALL weapons. Better hit detection and registering Reduced damage when limbs are hit Increase the current damage modifier for headshots Increase base damage Graze shots, dealing -80% less damage Currently the damage has a set amount throughout all of the body, except the head. Shields and armor are in factor too. If I shoot you in your toe that'll deal the same amount of damage as if I shot you in your chest. Doesn't make sense at all. If the bullet barely touches you, or grazes you, you should take very little damage. Also, snipers need to be rewarded more for acquiring headshots. Headshots need to be OHK for 95% of the time at least. Snipers are powerful weapons. They should be capable of doing this. With the addition of more skill involved with snipers, increasing the base damage by 10-20% of all snipers is necessary. All weapons should be able to have reduced damage for limbs and graze shots, as well as better hit detection of course. Not just snipers. Aesthetic Mechanics The aesthetics of a weapon could prove helpful in war. These few points will make the game slightly more immersive, prettier, and benefit those being sniped (as well as snipers in some situations), and will even further improve skill requirement in using these weapons. Scope glare/glint Improved bullet visibility (bullet trail, flash of light, impact) Improved sound (increased distinction and volume) Giving snipers scope glares will increase their visibility. This will make it a bit easier for people to spot, otherwise invisible, snipers. The scope glare will be at its most intensive state ONLY when it is aimed at you. It'll slowly fade away the farther it is aimed from you. This is realistic, and will allow players to know if their being aimed at (if you happen to be looking at the right direction at the right time). It'll help spot these snipers as well. So if a person in your sights looks toward you, that means you need to get up and move from that spot. You've been spotted. This will also help snipers find other snipers. Improving the bullet visibility will discourage players from missing. Making the bullet visible enough, which you can do by giving it a visible bullet streak/trail, and a flash of light (if it's pretty close towards you) as well as a visible impact spot, will make players run in fear. The same effect if you make the sound much louder and distinct, and an even louder impact sound. This encourages
Synbot Expert Intervention Caldari State 146	Posted - 2013.09.22 01:12:00 - [2] - Quote snipers to aim carefully and hit their target. Otherwise everyone runs. Aiming Mechanics The current sway mechanics aren't realistic, and is just too heavy. It's pretty straightforward here. These aspects will improve the sway mechanics. Lighter sway Sways while crouched Ability to go prone (does not sway, but more prone to vibrations) Vibrations caused by environment and heartbeat Ability to hold your breath to eliminate heartbeat vibration and reduce sway, using stamina The sway is unrealistically too 'heavy'. It does need to be just a tad more lighter. Crouching shouldn't eliminate sway. It makes absolutely no sense. It should only SLIGHTLY reduce it. The ability to go prone is a must have. Snipers NEED this. Going prone ELIMINATES sway, BUT makes you more prone to environmental vibrations. Environmental vibrations are caused by things like sniper fire, if someone is near you and fires there sniper, then you'll have a slight vibration that can offset your aim a tad. Other vibrations such as dropship landings, explosions, etc. should also have this type of impact on aiming. This could effectively penalize people for sniping in herds. The ability to hold your breath to eliminate heartbeat vibration and slightly reduce sway is also a must have. This will use your stamina. BUT, you will NOT automatically take a breath if your stamina runs out. If it does, you'll start trembling and shaking, offsetting your aim, and you'll also take damage. It intensifies the longer you continue to hold your breath. This way YOU have to release the button, YOU have to take the breath, you can't 'automatically' breathe. This provides a lot more realism to sniping. Better Sniping Positions Come on CCP, you can do better. Sniping positions in DUST are not good at all. I have to purchase an 80k ISK militia dropship just to get on top of a somewhat decent sniping position? In terms of sniping positions, DUST has really poor ones. CCP needs to emphasize a little bit more on sniping positions in their upcoming maps. You should be able to enter those huge tower buildings. Easily accessible sniper/'over-watch' areas Quality sniping positions We need more accessible areas for snipers. Not only for snipers, but for everyone. Give counter-sniping and sniping a balance. Quality sniping positions as well. Look at other game's sniping positions, we need things like that. Enterable buildings where you can snipe from the 8th floor. Not just big towers or hills. That's boring. And this is where I conclude. Thank you for your time, and hopefully you can provide me with your constructive input.
Synbot Expert Intervention Caldari State 146	Posted - 2013.09.22 01:14:00 - [3] - Quote Reserved just incase I need to collaborate a bit more.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 429	Posted - 2013.09.22 01:31:00 - [4] - Quote I often find myself leading a target while sniping and missing because I'm used to bullet travel time....wich is practically mute now but apparently the bullet shoots at 2500m/s so I guess they have bullet travel time right on the peg. O and +1 there is some good ideas you have
ALPHA DECRIPTER M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces League of Infamy 493	Posted - 2013.09.22 02:00:00 - [5] - Quote Reduce bullet speed? Yes! This "insta-hit" crap is annoying as hell. Bullet Drop? Eh, I could do without that but then again I could also get used to it either way. Scope glare? Cool! I'd like to see how things change with such a feature. I doubt CCP is ever going to implement prone OR hold breathe functions but I do like them. The amount of realism(vibrations from outside forces) you are asking for is unrealistic for CCP (not a dis, just a fact). Better sniping spots? Yes! When I can't find one I just quickscope and I'm a scout so you know that's not going to end well. I absolutely dispise redline sniping and will only do it if I conclude the match as a loss (90% of the time I'm right). Adjustable Scope? Hell yea (nuff said). As you mentioned, that was a long poste so I probably forgot some of the points you maid and I'm not about to read that whole thing over again lol. Overall I say +1 `Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST.
Sgt Buttscratch SLAPHAPPY BANDITS 793	Posted - 2013.09.22 02:08:00 - [6] - Quote Need hit detection fixed on tacticals before any fancy stuff
Synbot Expert Intervention Caldari State 148	Posted - 2013.09.22 03:14:00 - [7] - Quote ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote: Reduce bullet speed? Yes! This "insta-hit" crap is annoying as hell. Bullet Drop? Eh, I could do without that but then again I could also get used to it either way. Scope glare? Cool! I'd like to see how things change with such a feature. I doubt CCP is ever going to implement prone OR hold breathe functions but I do like them. The amount of realism(vibrations from outside forces) you are asking for is unrealistic for CCP (not a dis, just a fact). Better sniping spots? Yes! When I can't find one I just quickscope and I'm a scout so you know that's not going to end well. I absolutely dispise redline sniping and will only do it if I conclude the match as a loss (90% of the time I'm right). Adjustable Scope? Hell yea (nuff said). As you mentioned, that was a long poste so I probably forgot some of the points you maid and I'm not about to read that whole thing over again lol. Overall I say +1 `Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST. I agree with you. I hate how it's just a matter of 'when that dot turns red, shoot'. There's no depth in that. I don't feel like I am actually that mercenary, like I'm actually sniping. There's no immersion in it. Some of these features are long-term, but some can easily be implemented soon. I hope CCP gives this a read and gives us their input on it.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1669	Posted - 2013.09.22 03:24:00 - [8] - Quote in dust sniper rounds travel faster then 7,000m/s at 2,500m/s
Synbot Expert Intervention Caldari State 148	Posted - 2013.09.22 04:27:00 - [9] - Quote ladwar wrote: in dust sniper rounds travel faster then 7,000m/s at 2,500m/s Pretty fast, but I still think a drop and delay should still be implemented. Even for other weapons. But make it really light.
Synbot Expert Intervention Caldari State 149	Posted - 2013.09.22 20:47:00 - [10] - Quote I want to bring this back up. A few minutes ago I played a game, and all it was was a sniper and forge gun match on domination. It was probably one of the most boring matches I've ever played. It bothers me that I have to shoot 4+ times just to kill a heavy. By the 1-2 shot I took out most of their shield but they're hiding behind cover. Then I get shot by a forge gun. It almost makes snipers pointless.

Vesago Ghostcore Rejected Clones 15	Posted - 2013.09.22 21:02:00 - [11] - Quote Synbot wrote: Bullet Mechanics Currently our bullets travel at a set line. Much unrealistic, even for high tech equipment. This decreases the amount of skill you need to use this weapon, making it easier to use than most other games. Being a sniper SHOULD take skill, this is not like an assault rifle. This weapon has the potential to take you out in one shot, and making it easy to use makes no sense at all. It's as easy as putting the dot on the enemy and press the trigger. Far too easy. Providing these mechanics will make these snipers more realistic, give them more depth, and require players to use more skill. Bullet drop Bullet delay Bullet drop is an almost must-have with a shooter that spans across different planets. Each planet has varying gravity of course. It's simple. Planets with high gravity increases bullet drop intensity. Vise versa. Wind should also be a factor, the dust that violently blows in some of these maps doesn't even effect our bullet's path. That's quite amazing. Even with high tech weaponry, this should STILL be a factor. Using the crosshairs, as previously mentioned, to compensate for bullet drop and delay would increase the required skill to use these weapons. This is a common sense mechanic that should have been implemented from the get-go. In reality, nearly all weapons should have this mechanic (with the exception of the laser of course). I think that if these mechanics were to happen, which would make the game more interesting for snipers in my opinion, there is one thing that needs to be buffed. We snipers would need more ammo, and larger magazines... taking test shots to figure for range wind and bullet drop would use the very very limited ammunition supply we are given.
Synbot Expert Intervention Caldari State 150	Posted - 2013.09.22 21:08:00 - [12] - Quote Vesago Ghostcore wrote: Synbot wrote: Bullet Mechanics Currently our bullets travel at a set line. Much unrealistic, even for high tech equipment. This decreases the amount of skill you need to use this weapon, making it easier to use than most other games. Being a sniper SHOULD take skill, this is not like an assault rifle. This weapon has the potential to take you out in one shot, and making it easy to use makes no sense at all. It's as easy as putting the dot on the enemy and press the trigger. Far too easy. Providing these mechanics will make these snipers more realistic, give them more depth, and require players to use more skill. Bullet drop Bullet delay Bullet drop is an almost must-have with a shooter that spans across different planets. Each planet has varying gravity of course. It's simple. Planets with high gravity increases bullet drop intensity. Vise versa. Wind should also be a factor, the dust that violently blows in some of these maps doesn't even effect our bullet's path. That's quite amazing. Even with high tech weaponry, this should STILL be a factor. Using the crosshairs, as previously mentioned, to compensate for bullet drop and delay would increase the required skill to use these weapons. This is a common sense mechanic that should have been implemented from the get-go. In reality, nearly all weapons should have this mechanic (with the exception of the laser of course). I think that if these mechanics were to happen, which would make the game more interesting for snipers in my opinion, there is one thing that needs to be buffed. We snipers would need more ammo, and larger magazines... taking test shots to figure for range wind and bullet drop would use the very very limited ammunition supply we are given. I don't think snipers would need more ammo or larger magazines. Test shots wouldn't be necessary if we have indicators on the gravity level and a wind gauge of some sorts. These indicators will help us determine how we should shoot. An experienced sniper would know how much to lead if the wind was going 22mph from west, rather than going 31mph from east.
Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 87	Posted - 2013.09.22 23:39:00 - [13] - Quote Even the most realistic shooters available (say..ARMA 3 for example) don't have wind effects. This is for good reason. It would make sniping frustratingly slow (like it is in the real world) and incredibly unappealing to the majority of players. . Bullet drop, would be good where it actually applied. the rail sniper rifle currently in game shoots a small flechette at an extreme velocity. At the ranges we're playing at now, bullet drop wouldn't really be an issue. Plasma weapons like the current 'assault rifle' (plasma rifle) fire bolts with little mass at exceptional velocities (blasters in EVE have much higher projectile velocities than railguns, but the magnetically-bottled-plasma projectiles have a very short life span. The plasma rifle works by the same principle as a blaster. The Plasma cannon...does not. Really, the plasma cannon makes little sense at all). Bullet drop on blaster-like weapons makes no sense due to their short range and high velocity. Projectile rifles with lower speeds, including lower-powered rail rifles, bullet drop could be cool. Bullet delay needs to be matched to projectile speed. That forge gun should be hitting things instantaneously...not that we need to make it even more powerful.
Synbot Expert Intervention Caldari State 153	Posted - 2013.09.23 21:50:00 - [14] - Quote Dagger-Two wrote: Even the most realistic shooters available (say..ARMA 3 for example) don't have wind effects. This is for good reason. It would make sniping frustratingly slow (like it is in the real world) and incredibly unappealing to the majority of players. . Bullet drop, would be good where it actually applied. the rail sniper rifle currently in game shoots a small flechette at an extreme velocity. At the ranges we're playing at now, bullet drop wouldn't really be an issue. Plasma weapons like the current 'assault rifle' (plasma rifle) fire bolts with little mass at exceptional velocities (blasters in EVE have much higher projectile velocities than railguns, but the magnetically-bottled-plasma projectiles have a very short life span. The plasma rifle works by the same principle as a blaster. The Plasma cannon...does not. Really, the plasma cannon makes little sense at all). Bullet drop on blaster-like weapons makes no sense due to their short range and high velocity. Projectile rifles with lower speeds, including lower-powered rail rifles, bullet drop could be cool. Bullet delay needs to be matched to projectile speed. That forge gun should be hitting things instantaneously...not that we need to make it even more powerful. Good point. We probably could do without wind effects. But all others would be really nice to have.


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