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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
494
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 16:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Like the title says, what racial fit is the best at hiding from scanners? Running my assault squad for my corporation, I need to get into dampening and scanners b/c we're pretty screw'd against good scanners since it's become a wide spread thing now. Also how does Margin of Error work? Is there a chance you will or will not get scan due to dampeners or...? |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1609
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 16:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Considering dampeners take a good chunk of CPU, and putting one or two in your lowslots would take away both CPU and regen speed for your shield tank, I'd say they aren't as big of a deal on suits which already have +1/+2 lowslots compared to other suits in their class. So typically, armor suits like Amarr and Gallente IMO. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1728
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 17:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gallente Scout is the best suit for profile dampening. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1318
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 17:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
The suit type influences that ability to hide but the Gallente tend to have the most low slots. You'll be sacrificing armor modules to hide though. I use Minmatar Logistics and the balance slot layout is nice so that works for me.
I don't believe chance has any part in determining if you are scanned. If their sensitivity is lower than your profile you will be found. Passive scanning does seem a bit wonky though.
I've started a guide on scanning and profiles here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=110190 and will update it as I find out more information. Comments gladly accepted to fix errors.
Once I'm confident in my formulas I may even publish my spreadsheet. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1497
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Posted - 2013.09.17 17:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
I would say Gallente scout, and "obviously", but I'm guessing you're referring to medium frame fits.
Logis are the best choice as usual, but for assault, the Gallente are best for evading the higher tier scanners. Whereas the Caldari can be profile dampened without sacrificing HP. Minmatar are the least able to evade scanners, however their inherent mobility bonus works well in tandem with a profile dampened fit. Amarr are'nt really an option for this IMO. They're built to be sturdy, not sneaky. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
59
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Posted - 2013.09.17 17:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
So you want to stop your whole squad showing up on scanners? That seems like a tough thing to do and still be competitive. And if you're running relatively close together as a squad, it only takes one of you to show up on someone's scan and you're basically all found.
I'd be more tempted to make sure just one of you has a scanner yourselves to level the playing field. Once someone has LoS on you, it makes no difference anyway.
My two penneth. |
TcuBe3
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
74
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Posted - 2013.09.17 17:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:So you want to stop your whole squad showing up on scanners? That seems like a tough thing to do and still be competitive. And if you're running relatively close together as a squad, it only takes one of you to show up on someone's scan and you're basically all found.
I'd be more tempted to make sure just one of you has a scanner yourselves to level the playing field. Once someone has LoS on you, it makes no difference anyway.
My two penneth.
+1
The best way to counter the scanner is scan back, then seek and destroy.
If your running a med frame look for the suit that has the lowest dB and enough available slots to fit your dampened and a decent mission load out. I role the proto min logi for this, it's fast, it has 4 x 4 high low and a hacking bonus. I throw on the quantum scanner as well.
Obviously don't forget to spec dampening to lvl 5.
Once you're dampening lvl 5 regardless of the suit you should be able to defeat a majority of the scanners out there. |
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
494
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
So it seems everyone agrees that Gallente's can run the best profile dampening. It's nice to know the other race's have their own advantages in the territory of scanners.
@Chunky Munky Lucky for me that I only have one Armor-Tanked Suit, with the rest being Repair-Oriented. Two Dampeners wouldn't be that much of a challenge to play with :o.
@IAmDun I'm well aware of that >.>. My squad isn't infiltration focused, we're assault. It's just that knowing, is half the battle I would agree that scanning is better since it works for the whole squad.
@Tcube3 Lvl 5 Dampening has that much of an advantage? Definitely taking note of that. |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1463
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lvl 5 dampening only reduces your scan profile a total of 10%, which isn't enough to hide anything other than a scout suit from even the standard scanners. However, adding complex dampening modules will make a hell of a difference to any suit. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
1200
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Lvl 5 dampening only reduces your scan profile a total of 10%, which isn't enough to hide anything other than a scout suit from even the standard scanners. However, adding complex dampening modules will make a hell of a difference to any suit. Nope.
Dampening V will hide any medium suit from a standard scanner. Why do you think it's the #1 thing on my list of things to skill into? lol
Using dampeners is the only way for anything to hide from an advanced scanner. And only a gallente scout or a logi [well... med frame I guess] using multiple damps is able to hide from the best proto scanner. |
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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2075
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
The level 1 active scanners have a precision of 46 dB. Medium suits have a profile of 50 dB. So at 8% reduced (92% total) the profile of a medium suit would be even at 46 dB, so you'd need just a little more than 8% reduction. Profile Dampening skill is 2% per level, meaning you'd need to take it all the way to level 5. At that point, without fitting any modules you are immune to standard scanners, which is what most people use I assume.
Profile Dampening is a 3x skill, so a little less than 1 million skill points. I've been considering it. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1320
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:So you want to stop your whole squad showing up on scanners? That seems like a tough thing to do and still be competitive. And if you're running relatively close together as a squad, it only takes one of you to show up on someone's scan and you're basically all found.
I'd be more tempted to make sure just one of you has a scanner yourselves to level the playing field. Once someone has LoS on you, it makes no difference anyway.
My two penneth. +1 The best way to counter the scanner is scan back, then seek and destroy. If your running a med frame look for the suit that has the lowest dB and enough available slots to fit your dampened and a decent mission load out. I role the proto min logi for this, it's fast, it has 4 x 4 high low and a hacking bonus. I throw on the quantum scanner as well. Obviously don't forget to spec dampening to lvl 5. Once you're dampening lvl 5 regardless of the suit you should be able to defeat a majority of the scanners out there.
If my math is correct to hide a medium frame from the 28 dB prototype scanners you need two complex dampeners and probably four of them to defeat the 15 dB scanner. I ran into one 15 dB user so far that kept scanning my scout that was at 21 dB. Unfortunately he was in a full prototype Caldari logistics setup and I was in my advanced scout. It never ended well.
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Yan Darn
DUST University Ivy League
145
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:So you want to stop your whole squad showing up on scanners? That seems like a tough thing to do and still be competitive. And if you're running relatively close together as a squad, it only takes one of you to show up on someone's scan and you're basically all found.
I'd be more tempted to make sure just one of you has a scanner yourselves to level the playing field. Once someone has LoS on you, it makes no difference anyway.
My two penneth.
If I'm with a group and get 'scan prevented', I scan back (assuming I haven't already lit them up), and then effectively use the group as a distraction while I flank. Obviously only really applies to built up areas where you can use cover to escape LOS, but you can use uneven terrain to mask your flank if the reds are sufficiently distracted. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3319
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Django Quik wrote:Lvl 5 dampening only reduces your scan profile a total of 10%, which isn't enough to hide anything other than a scout suit from even the standard scanners. However, adding complex dampening modules will make a hell of a difference to any suit. Nope. Dampening V will hide any medium suit from a standard scanner. Why do you think it's the #1 thing on my list of things to skill into? lol Using dampeners is the only way for anything to hide from an advanced scanner. And only a gallente scout or a logi [well... med frame I guess] using multiple damps is able to hide from the best proto scanner.
Not even that. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1320
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yan Darn wrote:If I'm with a group and get 'scan prevented', I scan back (assuming I haven't already lit them up), and then effectively use the group as a distraction while I flank. Obviously only really applies to built up areas where you can use cover to escape LOS, but you can use uneven terrain to mask your flank if the reds are sufficiently distracted.
I love scanning an objective on approach, seeing a defender or two start looking around, and then flank them. I use the quantum scanner so I can keep an eye on them while moving. Scan again and watch the dots spin around again looking for their attacker. I'll use the far side of a hill or building to mask my approach as well.
The scanner is my favorite piece of equipment now.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4052
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Any Logi suit, a Gallente Assault, or the Gallente Scout, can stack enough Dampeners to become invisible even to Prototype Active Scanners.
So... if you're Gallente or a Logi, you can do it! |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
59
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 09:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yan Darn wrote:IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:So you want to stop your whole squad showing up on scanners? That seems like a tough thing to do and still be competitive. And if you're running relatively close together as a squad, it only takes one of you to show up on someone's scan and you're basically all found.
I'd be more tempted to make sure just one of you has a scanner yourselves to level the playing field. Once someone has LoS on you, it makes no difference anyway.
My two penneth. If I'm with a group and get 'scan prevented', I scan back (assuming I haven't already lit them up), and then effectively use the group as a distraction while I flank. Obviously only really applies to built up areas where you can use cover to escape LOS, but you can use uneven terrain to mask your flank if the reds are sufficiently distracted.
Hmm might have to try that, I usually run as a scout and do occasionally get scan prevented messages. Wouldn't take much to fit some dampeners at the expense of something else and try this out - nice thinking! |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
561
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 09:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:TcuBe3 wrote:IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:So you want to stop your whole squad showing up on scanners? That seems like a tough thing to do and still be competitive. And if you're running relatively close together as a squad, it only takes one of you to show up on someone's scan and you're basically all found.
I'd be more tempted to make sure just one of you has a scanner yourselves to level the playing field. Once someone has LoS on you, it makes no difference anyway.
My two penneth. +1 The best way to counter the scanner is scan back, then seek and destroy. If your running a med frame look for the suit that has the lowest dB and enough available slots to fit your dampened and a decent mission load out. I role the proto min logi for this, it's fast, it has 4 x 4 high low and a hacking bonus. I throw on the quantum scanner as well. Obviously don't forget to spec dampening to lvl 5. Once you're dampening lvl 5 regardless of the suit you should be able to defeat a majority of the scanners out there. If my math is correct to hide a medium frame from the 28 dB prototype scanners you need two complex dampeners and probably four of them to defeat the 15 dB scanner. I ran into one 15 dB user so far that kept scanning my scout that was at 21 dB. Unfortunately he was in a full prototype Caldari logistics setup and I was in my advanced scout. It never ended well. the 15db only shows your presence for short time and has long recharge though, so if you get scanned go somewhere else and come back few seconds later. |
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