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Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
865
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 03:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
If i dont bring a scanner, we dont have one If i dont bring uplinks we dont have any if i dont bring a squad theres no squads on our team if i dont bring ammo, we dont have any if i dont bring AV we dont have any if i dont defend our only base we lose it if i dont attack a base we dont get new ones if i dont countersnipe the snipers they shoot freely if i dont get rid of the forge gunner nobody will
fix matchmaking so that i dont have to do everything please... |
TcuBe3
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 04:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:If i dont bring a scanner, we dont have one If i dont bring uplinks we dont have any if i dont bring a squad theres no squads on our team if i dont bring ammo, we dont have any if i dont bring AV we dont have any if i dont defend our only base we lose it if i dont attack a base we dont get new ones if i dont countersnipe the snipers they shoot freely if i dont get rid of the forge gunner nobody will
fix matchmaking so that i dont have to do everything please...
Have a little faith in your fellow players!
Is this a matchmaking problem or a problem with blueberries? |
Cotsy8
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
6
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 04:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
The matchmaking system is broken. Matchmaking system should allow for players who don't want t wait around to find a team to pick up the game and join a lobby with similar minded players of similar skill and SP. sort of like CoD where you can select mercenary battles where there are no teams allowed. The second problem is the disparity in skill, where noobs and vets are mixed in randomly to produce teams (only to get stomped by a group of 6 elite players).
Everyone should be given a score or players rank based on whatever (SP, Average match points, k/d etc..) and you should be placed in a lobby with similar skilled players. Problem is the game time with go from 6-8 seconds to 25-30. Most vets don't see this as a problem but game developers want players playing and not sitting in a lobby waiting (yet they don't seem to care how long it takes to find a team).
If you wanted to go further you can be ranked by on class as well to give every team balance of assault, heavy, logi and light.
Personally I want to pick up my controller and join a game where I don't run into elite 6 man teams who stomp the noobs on my team. I much prefer a mercenary mode, no teams just pick up and play. Work with your team and don't waste my time forming a group or waste my time entering a match where the teams are unbalanced. There is no reason as a solo player i run I to hell storm type elite teams every match who just beat up on players who have 1/10th their SP.
There is no skill in pub stomping and matchmaking should reflect balanced matches.
I hope I spaced everything out. Using iPhone
-Cots
|
dustwaffle
Commando Perkone Caldari State
540
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 05:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:If i dont bring a scanner, we dont have one If i dont bring uplinks we dont have any if i dont bring a squad theres no squads on our team if i dont bring ammo, we dont have any if i dont bring AV we dont have any if i dont defend our only base we lose it if i dont attack a base we dont get new ones if i dont countersnipe the snipers they shoot freely if i dont get rid of the forge gunner nobody will
fix matchmaking so that i dont have to do everything please... Have a little faith in your fellow players! Is this a matchmaking problem or a problem with blueberries? This.
Less a matchmaking problem, more a blueberry problem. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
866
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 05:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
dustwaffle wrote:TcuBe3 wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:If i dont bring a scanner, we dont have one If i dont bring uplinks we dont have any if i dont bring a squad theres no squads on our team if i dont bring ammo, we dont have any if i dont bring AV we dont have any if i dont defend our only base we lose it if i dont attack a base we dont get new ones if i dont countersnipe the snipers they shoot freely if i dont get rid of the forge gunner nobody will
fix matchmaking so that i dont have to do everything please... Have a little faith in your fellow players! Is this a matchmaking problem or a problem with blueberries? This. Less a matchmaking problem, more a blueberry problem.
its a matchmaking problem when if i que solo i have all of these problems without exception.
aka aparently the matchmaking system thinks im good enough to carry a team.... so it gives me a team that needs carrying |
TcuBe3
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 05:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:dustwaffle wrote:TcuBe3 wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:If i dont bring a scanner, we dont have one If i dont bring uplinks we dont have any if i dont bring a squad theres no squads on our team if i dont bring ammo, we dont have any if i dont bring AV we dont have any if i dont defend our only base we lose it if i dont attack a base we dont get new ones if i dont countersnipe the snipers they shoot freely if i dont get rid of the forge gunner nobody will
fix matchmaking so that i dont have to do everything please... Have a little faith in your fellow players! Is this a matchmaking problem or a problem with blueberries? This. Less a matchmaking problem, more a blueberry problem. its a matchmaking problem when if i que solo i have all of these problems without exception. aka aparently the matchmaking system thinks im good enough to carry a team.... so it gives me a team that needs carrying
Quite a arrogant statement I'm glad you think so highly of yourself.
Getting back on topic I think this is less a matchmaking problem and more a problem with the player base. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
866
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 05:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote: Quite a arrogant statement I'm glad you think so highly of yourself.
Getting back on topic I think this is less a matchmaking problem and more a problem with the player base.
its a problem because i DONT think that highly of myself
aparently the matchmaking system doesnt agree.
statistically speaking i sguess its right 20m SP 3.0 KDR top 400 on leaderboard positive win loss
statistically im alot "better" then your average player...
realistically im not.
dont confuse facts for arrogance |
TcuBe3
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 05:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Is this happening solo or squaded? I was assuming the new matchmaking system would eliminate this. The problem is you have no idea the sp base of your team mates they may just be really bad experienced players although that is highly doubtful. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
866
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 05:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:Is this happening solo or squaded? I was assuming the new matchmaking system would eliminate this. The problem is you have no idea the sp base of your team mates they may just be really bad experienced players although that is highly doubtful.
statistically speaking havning 20mil+ SP is rare.
it pretty much requires that you started at last full SP reset and have used boosters a few times.
this stuff happens when i bring a squad of 3 or less.
aka if im not pubstomping in a full 6 man deathsquad of hand picked players its a clusterfuck....
only 1/10 games do i even find people talking on mics
|
dustwaffle
Commando Perkone Caldari State
542
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 06:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:TcuBe3 wrote:Is this happening solo or squaded? I was assuming the new matchmaking system would eliminate this. The problem is you have no idea the sp base of your team mates they may just be really bad experienced players although that is highly doubtful. statistically speaking havning 20mil+ SP is rare. it pretty much requires that you started at last full SP reset and have used boosters a few times. this stuff happens when i bring a squad of 3 or less. aka if im not pubstomping in a full 6 man deathsquad of hand picked players its a clusterfuck.... only 1/10 games do i even find people talking on mics it follows the pattern, i literally have to bring it with me into a game if i want it at all. if i want AV, i have to bring an AV guy if i want uplinks i have to bring someone with them if i want defenders, i have to bring my own if i want attackers, i have to bring my own. its just wierd that it always puts me with entire teams of people that arnt on par with my skill level... if i dont bring it myself... it dont get it. no team support from randoms
Get into teamchat and ask for blueberries to drop ammo/uplinks etc. That said, they hardly have mics on. Hence, more of a blueberry problem than a matchmaking problem. |
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Cotsy8
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
6
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 06:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is a matchmaking problem. Having 20m and 3+ k/d SP means you are elite. You should be placed in lobbies with very experience players who are on par with your skill level and your character stats. Frankly, you shouldn't be able to find a lobby that isn't full of guys with 10m SP and higher. Equality in lobbies will solve so many issues. Player are chased from the game by getting pub stomped by teams. Players have a hard time finding teammates with group up and when you find a team of lesser quality you should face lesser quality teams and not elite squads.
Balancing teams creates a fair playing field for both parties. I shouldn't have to battle noobs or elite players and for that matter I shouldn't have to battle groups if I won't want too. Let me have quality team and a quality opponent based on my skill level and stats etc... Why offer me a lobby of bad teammates and the frustration that goes along with it. Let noobs learn together and let the others avoid their torment. |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
278
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 06:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:If i dont bring a scanner, we dont have one If i dont bring uplinks we dont have any if i dont bring a squad theres no squads on our team if i dont bring ammo, we dont have any if i dont bring AV we dont have any if i dont defend our only base we lose it if i dont attack a base we dont get new ones if i dont countersnipe the snipers they shoot freely if i dont get rid of the forge gunner nobody will
fix matchmaking so that i dont have to do everything please...
So many possibilites :) Man - so many wp for you. I'm usualy got mixed feelings, proud and angry when: - last point on map is ...my - last nanohive/drop link is ... my (man i'm heavy and this is not my job... but I can do this too) - I take sniper nest or just take its fire onself ... noone die in same time at my side. - solo run at tank...
but...
that is Dust, and take a little sympathy for rest. SHOW THEM WHERE IS LIGHT AND HOPE ;) Show them how to play. They survive longer. |
Aisha Ctarl
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1325
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 13:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
I think the lack of a tutorial for the blueberries result in DUST blueberries being the worst in all of the FPS games. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
511
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 13:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:I think the lack of a tutorial for the blueberries result in DUST blueberries being the worst in all of the FPS games.
This is main problem as a vet you already know the importance of equipment, but a lot of blueberries don't there is no guidance, you are left to your own devices, and expected to pull your weight, vets shout down the mic "I need help at C, I need help at C where is my support, you $#@&/#"
Thats the just not noob friendly, and its why blueberries don't know what to do. In COD (sorry I know) the goal is clear, kill them, dont focus on anything else just kill them, it easy, yet boring.
But the fact its so easy it doesn't need a tutorial, and wp gains alone won't spell it out, the need a hand, training wheels a backstory!!
I imagine a tutorial documenting your change from human to immortal mercanary, not just "You have shown great promise, but you need more training before I can authorise you for battle" Where did I show promise, in the character select screen? |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
278
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 13:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nope... this is problem new gamers now. They come , do 'fast pew pew'... and noone of them trying to think what he must do. They want anything 'NOW'. If not ... cry or leave with taughts that this game is: - unfair - keyboard/mouse - veteran pub stomping - why I must stay in this game for months to get anything...
But some of them stays and become hardcore ;)
Dust is what it is. Hard, free and player requiring attention... Stay if you like this. |
Mortedeamor
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
259
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 13:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:If i dont bring a scanner, we dont have one If i dont bring uplinks we dont have any if i dont bring a squad theres no squads on our team if i dont bring ammo, we dont have any if i dont bring AV we dont have any if i dont defend our only base we lose it if i dont attack a base we dont get new ones if i dont countersnipe the snipers they shoot freely if i dont get rid of the forge gunner nobody will
fix matchmaking so that i dont have to do everything please... Have a little faith in your fellow players! Is this a matchmaking problem or a problem with blueberries? when people with over 20 mill sp who are multi specced a majority of the time running alone get dropped into matches with 15 scrubs maybe 14 scrubs on their side thats a problem..i have both proto av unless i bring a squad mate i havnt seen a fellow av user put ina match with me my matches tend to be logi low as well as i am a proto logi i guess thats why when i do see a aver on my side hes a mlt user or stnd driving around witha saga dieing repeatedly to turrets. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
511
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 13:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jack Boost wrote:Nope... this is problem new gamers now. They come , do 'fast pew pew'... and noone of them trying to think what he must do. They want anything 'NOW'. If not ... cry or leave with taughts that this game is: - unfair - keyboard/mouse - veteran pub stomping - why I must stay in this game for months to get anything...
But some of them stays and become hardcore ;)
Dust is what it is. Hard, free and player requiring attention... Stay if you like this.
True but without proper introduction you loose alot of players who might enjoy it but don't yet understand, I joined 3 mknths ago, by alot of you , id probably be considered a blueberry!
I consider myself hardened, not a vet but hardened. I would have left in the first 2 weeks if I hadn't actively looked up the lore, eve and all that, it just seemed like a shooter with tok much effort, suits were free and I didn't underatand death meant more than a number on the leadboards!!
But im still here because I like the intricate mechanics, teamplay, freedom of choice, and moments you just dont get anywhere else! |
Sir Eos
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 14:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
This has nothing to do with tutuorials, or the game being to hard for new players to comprehend. Because the game isn't that hard to comprehend. So stop acting like you're special because you "Get it"
It has everything to do with the game itself and how much it sucks and encourages people to just AFK.
AND matchmaking.
Let me repeat...
MATCHMAKING..... Has never worked, for any game it has been in.
Oh, sure, it works at that most basic level of throwing a bunch of people into a lobby together, I'll give it that. But no game that I know of today from Halo onward has had a Matchmaking system that actually put "quality" matches together.
Now, if Halo and CoD with a population of 300k players can't do quality skill matchmaking. What makes you think Dust has a chance with 5k?
Then you run into another problem.... If you prioritize too much on Skill..... you still haven't fixed your matchmaking issue. Because eventualy people will quit for OTHER reasons. Such as map and gametype. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1601
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 14:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
The way I see the game, the best chance you have of making good isk each match, is by doing the thing other players aren't doing.
You don't have to compete with slayers if you are laying down equipment/repping/resupplying etc. Or if you are going for vehicle kills and remote explosives guarding/hacking objectives you can expect to get more points than if you are just fighting for kill assists against the proto-AR users.
You can't go around all entitled to the same pile of WP that everyone else is earning from. Grow the pile yourself. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
511
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 14:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sir Eos wrote:This has nothing to do with tutuorials, or the game being to hard for new players to comprehend. Because the game isn't that hard to comprehend. So stop acting like you're special because you "Get it"
It has everything to do with the game itself and how much it sucks and encourages people to just AFK.
AND matchmaking.
Let me repeat...
MATCHMAKING..... Has never worked, for any game it has been in.
Oh, sure, it works at that most basic level of throwing a bunch of people into a lobby together, I'll give it that. But no game that I know of today from Halo onward has had a Matchmaking system that actually put "quality" matches together.
It seems to work alright for me, nearly every match I have been in since .4 has been to the bitter end. A difference of 2 clones, or 4 mcc health bars, almost everytime!!
So I don't why its not working for you!! |
|
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
430
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 15:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Many of these issues stem from blueberries, and I'm pretty sure it's because they just don't know. I know I can admit that I never realized that dropping an uplink is a WP fountain until I got the free one from the Eve Collector's Edition. After I saw it was a WP fountain, I looked into other equipment and even became a logi, a role I very much enjoy now.
I'm sure a comprehensive NPE that TEACHES some of the complexities of Dust--the entire game map is dynamic spawning, not picking up others' weapons, no ammo on the ground, etc.--you'll see more players fall in line.
Listen, guys, it's just going to take time. Dust is a new shooter experience. Many of the things from warpoints to skillpoints, skill trees to fittings are ALL NEW to the genre. Give people time to realize that uplinks MUST be dropped to spawn close into battle or that ammo ONLY (for the most part) comes from hives. Nevermind that you get 60 WP for saving a life and only 50 for killing one.
I've seen more and more blueberries--well, some at least--dropping uplinks or using needles. That's good, because it means my equipment slots don't have to be needles or uplinks anymore. They can be used for hives or scanners or reppers or hopefully bubble shields down the line. |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
228
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 15:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cotsy8 wrote:The matchmaking system is broken. Matchmaking system should allow for players who don't want t wait around to find a team to pick up the game and join a lobby with similar minded players of similar skill and SP. sort of like CoD where you can select mercenary battles where there are no teams allowed. The second problem is the disparity in skill, where noobs and vets are mixed in randomly to produce teams (only to get stomped by a group of 6 elite players).
Everyone should be given a score or players rank based on whatever (SP, Average match points, k/d etc..) and you should be placed in a lobby with similar skilled players. Problem is the game time with go from 6-8 seconds to 25-30. Most vets don't see this as a problem but game developers want players playing and not sitting in a lobby waiting (yet they don't seem to care how long it takes to find a team).
If you wanted to go further you can be ranked by on class as well to give every team balance of assault, heavy, logi and light.
Personally I want to pick up my controller and join a game where I don't run into elite 6 man teams who stomp the noobs on my team. I much prefer a mercenary mode, no teams just pick up and play. Work with your team and don't waste my time forming a group or waste my time entering a match where the teams are unbalanced. There is no reason as a solo player i run I to hell storm type elite teams every match who just beat up on players who have 1/10th their SP.
There is no skill in pub stomping and matchmaking should reflect balanced matches.
I hope I spaced everything out. Using iPhone
-Cots
I completely agree. I would add that the matchmaker should be able to detect pubstompers. When there is a complete blowout in a match, and there are players that all have massive K/D and WP relative to the rest of their squad they should be "penalized" by having their matchmaking rank increased significantly. This will force those players to fight better players in future matches.
|
TcuBe3
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
73
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 15:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:TcuBe3 wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:If i dont bring a scanner, we dont have one If i dont bring uplinks we dont have any if i dont bring a squad theres no squads on our team if i dont bring ammo, we dont have any if i dont bring AV we dont have any if i dont defend our only base we lose it if i dont attack a base we dont get new ones if i dont countersnipe the snipers they shoot freely if i dont get rid of the forge gunner nobody will
fix matchmaking so that i dont have to do everything please... Have a little faith in your fellow players! Is this a matchmaking problem or a problem with blueberries? when people with over 20 mill sp who are multi specced a majority of the time running alone get dropped into matches with 15 scrubs maybe 14 scrubs on their side thats a problem..i have both proto av unless i bring a squad mate i havnt seen a fellow av user put ina match with me my matches tend to be logi low as well as i am a proto logi i guess thats why when i do see a aver on my side hes a mlt user or stnd driving around witha saga dieing repeatedly to turrets.
Why don't you expand your vocabulary?
Why do you call new players scrubs? I wish you guys could find a different word to define uneducated or new players. I'm a little disappointed in the way my fellow veteran players treat new people.
Team chat is the best way to go on this, obviously matchmaking was suppose to fix this but it looks like it hasn't.
I'm curious of the enemy team in these matches is populated the same? |
TcuBe3
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
73
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 15:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:Many of these issues stem from blueberries, and I'm pretty sure it's because they just don't know. I know I can admit that I never realized that dropping an uplink is a WP fountain until I got the free one from the Eve Collector's Edition. After I saw it was a WP fountain, I looked into other equipment and even became a logi, a role I very much enjoy now.
I'm sure a comprehensive NPE that TEACHES some of the complexities of Dust--the entire game map is dynamic spawning, not picking up others' weapons, no ammo on the ground, etc.--you'll see more players fall in line.
Listen, guys, it's just going to take time. Dust is a new shooter experience. Many of the things from warpoints to skillpoints, skill trees to fittings are ALL NEW to the genre. Give people time to realize that uplinks MUST be dropped to spawn close into battle or that ammo ONLY (for the most part) comes from hives. Nevermind that you get 60 WP for saving a life and only 50 for killing one.
I've seen more and more blueberries--well, some at least--dropping uplinks or using needles. That's good, because it means my equipment slots don't have to be needles or uplinks anymore. They can be used for hives or scanners or reppers or hopefully bubble shields down the line.
+1
Not everyone is ready to contribute to the team coming straight out of the academy and here is why...
COD, BF3... Games are now promoting individualistic rewards and people are only concerned with getting the next toy. Teamwork exists in other games but it is on a rapid decline.
This game does a hoorible job of introducing a new player to the game and preparing them for the pub stomp that will occur when they leave the academy.
Back to the thread, I think this will take some more matchmaking tweaking from ccp. Obviously this isn't suppose to happen. |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
432
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 16:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:I completely agree. I would add that the matchmaker should be able to detect pubstompers. When there is a complete blowout in a match, and there are players that all have massive K/D and WP relative to the median score of the rest of their team they should be "penalized" by having their matchmaking rank increased significantly. This will force those players to fight better players in future matches. +1 to the bolded and underlined statement. Matchmaker needs to be more intelligent about creating balanced matches where one team isn't a bunch of randoms and one team has squads full of proto guys. Definitely agree that players with "massive K/D and WP relative to the median score of the rest of their team they should be "penalized" by having their matchmaking rank increased significantly." |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
954
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 16:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:If i dont bring a scanner, we dont have one If i dont bring uplinks we dont have any if i dont bring a squad theres no squads on our team if i dont bring ammo, we dont have any if i dont bring AV we dont have any if i dont defend our only base we lose it if i dont attack a base we dont get new ones if i dont countersnipe the snipers they shoot freely if i dont get rid of the forge gunner nobody will
fix matchmaking so that i dont have to do everything please...
yep I do think these in almost every single skirmish match I play, quite frustrating, it's why I don't play skirmish |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
99
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 16:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cotsy8 wrote:Let noobs learn together and let the others avoid their torment. Please tell me you're joking. This forum is filled with two types of poster: 1. Those complaining about the small player base, or 2. Those complaining about how new players are terrible.
Notice a correlation there?
The problem stems from two basic issues: 1. The game really, really does a poor job of "breaking in" new players. Simply throwing a bunch of new players into Academy Battles together isn't going to help them out; I could throw my 8 year-old daughter and some of her friends into a car and tell them to learn how to drive--but unless someone that actually knows how to drive is in there with them, they aren't going to get very far. 2. Many of the veterans on these boards are openly hostile towards players that are "beneath" them. Perhaps if they spent more time helping out new players instead of complaining about them, we might actually see an increase in the number of players that stick around and play often. |
TcuBe3
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
73
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 16:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:Cotsy8 wrote:Let noobs learn together and let the others avoid their torment. Please tell me you're joking. This forum is filled with two types of poster: 1. Those complaining about the small player base, or 2. Those complaining about how new players are terrible. Notice a correlation there? The problem stems from two basic issues: 1. The game really, really does a poor job of "breaking in" new players. Simply throwing a bunch of new players into Academy Battles together isn't going to help them out; I could throw my 8 year-old daughter and some of her friends into a car and tell them to learn how to drive--but unless someone that actually knows how to drive is in there with them, they aren't going to get very far. 2. Many of the veterans on these boards are openly hostile towards players that are "beneath" them. Perhaps if they spent more time helping out new players instead of complaining about them, we might actually see an increase in the number of players that stick around and play often.
+1
But what is ccp going to do to help indoctrinate new players into the game? Longer academy? PVE? I hope something... |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
954
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 16:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:Cotsy8 wrote:Let noobs learn together and let the others avoid their torment. Please tell me you're joking. This forum is filled with two types of poster: 1. Those complaining about the small player base, or 2. Those complaining about how new players are terrible. Notice a correlation there? The problem stems from two basic issues: 1. The game really, really does a poor job of "breaking in" new players. Simply throwing a bunch of new players into Academy Battles together isn't going to help them out; I could throw my 8 year-old daughter and some of her friends into a car and tell them to learn how to drive--but unless someone that actually knows how to drive is in there with them, they aren't going to get very far. 2. Many of the veterans on these boards are openly hostile towards players that are "beneath" them. Perhaps if they spent more time helping out new players instead of complaining about them, we might actually see an increase in the number of players that stick around and play often.
how should we help them?
non of them use mics, none of them squad, most probably don't even watch team chat.
the very few I do talk to that have mics, more often then not aren't asking any questions.
theirs no systems in place for mentoring, or teaching players.
dust university is a corp currently built for the purpose of teaching players, if new people can't find their way into that corp how are we supposed to do anything about it? |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
99
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 16:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:Everything Dies wrote:Cotsy8 wrote:Let noobs learn together and let the others avoid their torment. Please tell me you're joking. This forum is filled with two types of poster: 1. Those complaining about the small player base, or 2. Those complaining about how new players are terrible. Notice a correlation there? The problem stems from two basic issues: 1. The game really, really does a poor job of "breaking in" new players. Simply throwing a bunch of new players into Academy Battles together isn't going to help them out; I could throw my 8 year-old daughter and some of her friends into a car and tell them to learn how to drive--but unless someone that actually knows how to drive is in there with them, they aren't going to get very far. 2. Many of the veterans on these boards are openly hostile towards players that are "beneath" them. Perhaps if they spent more time helping out new players instead of complaining about them, we might actually see an increase in the number of players that stick around and play often. +1 But what is ccp going to do to help indoctrinate new players into the game? Longer academy? PVE? I hope something...
It would be great if vets could sign up to act as "tutors" and take part in Academy battles ( maybe two or three on each side, all restricted to militia gear) and act in specialized roles--i.e. sniper, AV, scout, etc.
Hell, isn't the Dust University corporation supposed to function similar to this? Maybe CCP could take graduates from the Academy and place them into a University/Corporation where they can be paired up with even more vets and participate in public battles that exclude players (aside from the instructors) that have SP above a certain amount. |
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Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
894
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Posted - 2013.09.17 16:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
the problem is also that i cant just switch roles to whatever is needed at that moment...
becuase usually they are all needed simultaniously
and i cant switch suits without holding the supply depot... wich in tern means my team wont hold any bases becuase they usually cant defend even 1 base.
so whats more important
holding the supply depot to drop uplinks? wich get killed instantly because we dont have a foothold....
hold the base we do have so we can stay in the fight?
grab a new base to draw them away (and lose the old one in the process)
kill the tank...
its not a matter of doing what needs done... all of them need done and you can only acomplish one at a time while sacraficing all the others. |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
99
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Posted - 2013.09.17 16:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:
how should we help them?
non of them use mics, none of them squad, most probably don't even watch team chat.
the very few I do talk to that have mics, more often then not aren't asking any questions.
theirs no systems in place for mentoring, or teaching players.
dust university is a corp currently built for the purpose of teaching players, if new people can't find their way into that corp how are we supposed to do anything about it?
Many of those problems exist as a result of CCP, true, but that doesn't mean that vets can't do more to help out. Even if no one is responding with a mic, encourage players to at least activate voice in team chat. Then simply talk to them during the battle--point out objectives, identify targets, suggest needed weaponry, places to seek cover, etc. I have no mic, but I listen to the members of my team that do, and I try to react to what they're seeing.
A great help, though, would be for the big corporations to roll out more 4 or 5 person squads and ask for newer players to fill out the open spot(s) as opposed to sending out the full squad of 6 and expecting the rest of the team to keep up with them. There's simply no substitute for being an active learner in how good players/teams play the game. |
Thumb Green
Novashift
390
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Posted - 2013.09.17 16:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lot of talk about blueberries but where's your huckleberries? You're complaining about not being able to fill multiple roles at once while running solo in a squad based FPS. You want to run solo, that's fine but you're not playing the game the way it's intended to be played and you will be at a disadvantage for it. |
TcuBe3
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
74
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Posted - 2013.09.17 17:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Lot of talk about blueberries but where's your huckleberries? You're complaining about not being able to fill multiple roles at once while running solo in a squad based FPS. You want to run solo, that's fine but you're not playing the game the way it's intended to be played and you will be at a disadvantage for it.
The OP isn't talking about running solo he's talking about the matchmaking system and how it pairs his squad with lower SP players who don't contribute to the required tasks of the team. It's a matchmaking topic that has turned into a topic of teamwork and training. No one here is talking about running solo. |
R F Gyro
Clones 4u
506
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Posted - 2013.09.17 17:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Lot of talk about blueberries but where's your huckleberries? You're complaining about not being able to fill multiple roles at once while running solo in a squad based FPS. You want to run solo, that's fine but you're not playing the game the way it's intended to be played and you will be at a disadvantage for it. The OP isn't talking about running solo he's talking about the matchmaking system and how it pairs his squad with lower SP players who don't contribute to the required tasks of the team. It's a matchmaking topic that has turned into a topic of teamwork and training. No one here is talking about running solo. He may not say he's running solo, but he certainly implies it.
If he is with a squad then there should be 5 other players who are sharing those tasks with him. If they aren't, that's not a matchmaking problem.
I don't see a matchmaking issue here, personally. It sounds more like unrealistic expectations to me. I don't see how a matchmaking system can make decisions based on the player's ability to contribute to an ad-hoc team. If it filled the game (both sides) with players who have exactly the same WP, SP, and KDR as you, that still wouldn't solve the problem.
Maybe CCP could incorporate some sort of AI-based "certificate of teamwork", and then include that in the matchmaking logic?
---edit--- Just found this
Chances Ghost wrote:its a matchmaking problem when if i que solo i have all of these problems without exception. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
898
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:17:00 -
[36] - Quote
even if i dont que solo i have these problems, if me and my buddys hop in the ole python... my teams probably going to lose
becuase my squad isnt on the ground carrying the team.
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ABadMutha13
Nihil-Obstat Mercs General Tso's Alliance
18
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:Many of these issues stem from blueberries, and I'm pretty sure it's because they just don't know. I know I can admit that I never realized that dropping an uplink is a WP fountain until I got the free one from the Eve Collector's Edition. After I saw it was a WP fountain, I looked into other equipment and even became a logi, a role I very much enjoy now.
I'm sure a comprehensive NPE that TEACHES some of the complexities of Dust--the entire game map is dynamic spawning, not picking up others' weapons, no ammo on the ground, etc.--you'll see more players fall in line.
Listen, guys, it's just going to take time. Dust is a new shooter experience. Many of the things from warpoints to skillpoints, skill trees to fittings are ALL NEW to the genre. Give people time to realize that uplinks MUST be dropped to spawn close into battle or that ammo ONLY (for the most part) comes from hives. Nevermind that you get 60 WP for saving a life and only 50 for killing one.
I've seen more and more blueberries--well, some at least--dropping uplinks or using needles. That's good, because it means my equipment slots don't have to be needles or uplinks anymore. They can be used for hives or scanners or reppers or hopefully bubble shields down the line.
Dust has no tutorial and 3 game types.
It has been out for months.
It has nothing new in the way of systems other than it costs money to buy. I suppose it is rather innovative in the fact that you can buy stuff but not sell it.
It has airships, tanks, cars(Nothing new)
Never talk about this game and what it WILL have because until it does you are just parroting Dev ideas, not any of their implementations. |
Gallente Mercenary 08551380
The Vanguardians
25
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
If anyone here is familiar with how WOT(World of Tanks) does their matchmaking, I believe that DUST works in much a similar fashion.
Tanks are ranked in Tiers ranging from 1 to 10, 1 being weakest 10 being strongest. You think of this as the difference between basic and proto gear, noobs and vets.
Basically, matches are made by trying to have both team have an equal average tier number. This is an extreme and unrealistic example, but; Team A could have 10 Tier 5 tanks. Team B could have 2 Tier 10 tanks and 4 tier 5 tanks and 4 tier 3 tanks The average Tier for Team A is 5 The average Tier for Team B is 5.2
The average tier is similar enough that the system will match the players together. This leads to one side having a few extremely powerful veteran players and a bunch of noobs, and the other having a mixture of average players and noobs.
Just like how fresh out of the War Academy I can get matched against enemies with 20mil SP. That can happen because other veteran players on my team raise the team average high enough that I can get matched against much more powerful players.
It is technically speaking, a fair system of matchmaking. But it leads to the noobs feeling stomped and the veterans feeling responsible for everything because the rest of their team is noobs.
I don't like this. I would wait a few minutes to get matched against players who are close to my average "Tier" not the average "Tier" of the team. |
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