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Shotgun is better but needs some tweaks

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CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 803	Posted - 2013.09.16 22:06:00 - [1] - Quote It still loses to MD and AR in CQC. Perhaps increase the damage by a lot and increase the spread, proportionally, so getting an OHK is easier.
SgtDoughnut M.E.R.C. Elite 126	Posted - 2013.09.16 22:08:00 - [2] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: It still loses to MD and AR in CQC. Perhaps increase the damage by a lot and increase the spread, proportionally, so getting an OHK is easier. WUT?
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster 1702	Posted - 2013.09.16 22:20:00 - [3] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: It still loses to MD and AR in CQC. Perhaps increase the damage by a lot and increase the spread, proportionally, so getting an OHK is easier. No.
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles 1245	Posted - 2013.09.16 22:23:00 - [4] - Quote The hit detection I hear is wonky. I have tested it and it is indeed. Shoot in a direction then quickly turn about 45 degrees and shoot. The shot will land In the same spot as the first does
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1164	Posted - 2013.09.17 13:48:00 - [5] - Quote Devs are investigating. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=109788 In the mean time ... I'll be hipfiring a Gek :p
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1600	Posted - 2013.09.17 13:54:00 - [6] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: It still loses to MD and AR in CQC. Perhaps increase the damage by a lot and increase the spread, proportionally, so getting an OHK is easier. See this is where confirmation bias comes in again. Do you feel like it is losing in 1v1 battles all the time against them? Or are you not paying attention to the fact that you are actually going 1 v 3 and just getting gunned down by multiple targets, and you often to HAPPEN to die to AR and MD all the time?
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1191	Posted - 2013.09.18 14:34:00 - [7] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: See this is where confirmation bias comes in again. Do you feel like it is losing in 1v1 battles all the time against them? Or are you not paying attention to the fact that you are actually going 1 v 3 and just getting gunned down by multiple targets, and you often to HAPPEN to die to AR and MD all the time? Strongly disagree. As a shotgun scout, I die at or under 0.5 seconds when engaging -- within my 5-10m optimal range -- a single Medium/AR. Provided every pellet hits -- which is never the case -- it takes substantially longer than 0.5 seconds to fire the 2-3 blasts required to drop said Medium/AR. I'll win if he's wounded, panicked, distracted or just plain bad. Otherwise, I am at severe disadvantage (even when engaging from behind). Odell is right. The shotgun is imbalanced against the AR within its severely restricted optimal range. As an aside, I've been running an AR for the past week or so. Starting at zero SP invested, I've mostly run a BPO (just unlocked the Gek yesterday). I have died precisely twice 1v1'ing a shotgunner in close quarters. In the same period and engagement range, I've dropped around around a dozen shotgunners hipfiring while backpedaling or sidestepping. I'd remind you that I'm a Scout with one-half to one-third the HP of a medium. I should've been 2 for 12, not 12 for 2. - Shotty GoBang
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 244	Posted - 2013.09.18 14:56:00 - [8] - Quote I haven't logged in because of the AR shenanigans. It's reminding me of lasers in Chromosone. I just wish the core AR users would recognize an issue rather than knee-jerking to 'omg, nerf AR posts lulzlulz.". It's not about nerfing. It's about balancing. I haven't even used my shotgun lately because it's so wack and I've dropped a million plus SP into it. That's a lot of time and to have it constantly broken, which is beyond frustrating at this point. Being killed by AR at any range of engagement is wacky, there's no competing against that with a broken gun.
8213 Grade No.2 275	Posted - 2013.09.18 15:39:00 - [9] - Quote Shotguns are hard to balance in any game, because they are such a unique weapon. Every weapon has potential to be dominant, but shotgun has more limitations than advantages. It really doesn't have a place in DUST 514 as a dominating weapon. It's more of a fun factor toy. The maps are made for shotguns. The kill process isn't made for them either. Shotguns take a lot of work to do well with, let alone be dominate. The faulty hitboxes and hit detection don't help either. I can't think of a solution for shotguns in this game; shotguns are my main weapon in all other FPSes that I've played over the last 20 years.
BARDAS DUST University Ivy League 491	Posted - 2013.09.18 15:45:00 - [10] - Quote Had my shotgun turn into a scanner the other day visually. When I tried to shoot I was shooting bullets and killed a number of people with a scanner. lmao... funny ****.

8213 Grade No.2 275	Posted - 2013.09.18 15:49:00 - [11] - Quote BARDAS wrote: Had my shotgun turn into a scanner the other day visually. When I tried to shoot I was shooting bullets and killed a number of people with a scanner. lmao... funny ****. My SMG became a grenade. I was cooking them, then throwing them across the screen... sounds like no match for your scanner machine gun
TREY Trey THE DOLLARS 38	Posted - 2013.09.18 15:57:00 - [12] - Quote 8213 wrote: Shotguns are hard to balance in any game, because they are such a unique weapon. Every weapon has potential to be dominant, but shotgun has more limitations than advantages. It really doesn't have a place in DUST 514 as a dominating weapon. It's more of a fun factor toy. The maps are made for shotguns. The kill process isn't made for them either. Shotguns take a lot of work to do well with, let alone be dominate. The faulty hitboxes and hit detection don't help either. I can't think of a solution for shotguns in this game; shotguns are my main weapon in all other FPSes that I've played over the last 20 years. Shotgun should have been done like it is in MAG. The shotgun has short range but should be doing heavy damage to soldiers by damaging both shield and armor at once. Right now I can't even one shot enemies with sneak shots. That was the first sigh that something was wrong with it.
621311251521 3316 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2013.09.18 16:30:00 - [13] - Quote TREY Trey wrote: 8213 wrote: Shotguns are hard to balance in any game, because they are such a unique weapon. Every weapon has potential to be dominant, but shotgun has more limitations than advantages. It really doesn't have a place in DUST 514 as a dominating weapon. It's more of a fun factor toy. The maps are made for shotguns. The kill process isn't made for them either. Shotguns take a lot of work to do well with, let alone be dominate. The faulty hitboxes and hit detection don't help either. I can't think of a solution for shotguns in this game; shotguns are my main weapon in all other FPSes that I've played over the last 20 years. Shotgun should have been done like it is in MAG. The shotgun has short range but should be doing heavy damage to soldiers by damaging both shield and armor at once. Right now I can't even one shot enemies with sneak shots. That was the first sigh that something was wrong with it.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 3335	Posted - 2013.09.18 16:39:00 - [14] - Quote Shotgun doesn't actually do much more damage than any other weapon, and before you start bitching about AR 514 that includes a number of weapons other than the AR. Hell, the scrambler pistol does comparable damage to the shotgun - and that's a sidearm with significantly more range and a huge headshot bonus.
major faux-pas Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 83	Posted - 2013.09.20 18:37:00 - [15] - Quote TREY Trey wrote: 8213 wrote: Shotguns are hard to balance in any game, because they are such a unique weapon. Every weapon has potential to be dominant, but shotgun has more limitations than advantages. It really doesn't have a place in DUST 514 as a dominating weapon. It's more of a fun factor toy. The maps are made for shotguns. The kill process isn't made for them either. Shotguns take a lot of work to do well with, let alone be dominate. The faulty hitboxes and hit detection don't help either. I can't think of a solution for shotguns in this game; shotguns are my main weapon in all other FPSes that I've played over the last 20 years. Shotgun should have been done like it is in MAG. The shotgun has short range but should be doing heavy damage to soldiers by damaging both shield and armor at once. Right now I can't even one shot enemies with sneak shots. That was the first sigh that something was wrong with it. ^^ Agree totally with this and what Shotty GoBang says. I had invested multiple millions in shotgun as my primary Now I dont use it Im far better off using my non-proficient massdriver, AR or scrambler in CQC (or sniper rifle). Fixed scan profiles and scanners promised SO much for the shotgun scout. But with this babysitting hitbox crap, and delayed fire and reduced shotgun damage its all a bit of a disappointment. Never mind GTA V is out now !
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 184	Posted - 2013.09.20 18:45:00 - [16] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: It still loses to MD and AR in CQC. Perhaps increase the damage by a lot and increase the spread, proportionally, so getting an OHK is easier. Depends if you engage a mass driver user you'd die but if you sneak behind him one shot would alert him and he would do a 180 cos of mouse (or control sensitivity high) and shoot you theres only one way but if its a MLT using an MD you can 1 headshot him
Tectonic Fusion The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 234	Posted - 2013.09.20 18:46:00 - [17] - Quote 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: Had my shotgun turn into a scanner the other day visually. When I tried to shoot I was shooting bullets and killed a number of people with a scanner. lmao... funny ****. My SMG became a grenade. I was cooking them, then throwing them across the screen... sounds like no match for your scanner machine gun My repair took became an SMG a while back, and the ADS was a bit OP when the glitch happend
Toby Flenderson research lab The Superpowers 38	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:24:00 - [18] - Quote I run an enhanced Gallente scout suit with 2 complex shield extenders and 1 complex kinetic catalyzer. I also have 0 sp invested in shotguns and yet I wouldn't blame CCP if they nerfed the MLT shotgun. With this fit I am able to pull out 20-2 games every so often or just decent games. I think there is a lot to say about the way you approach using a scout/shotgun fitting so I'm not sure if the shotgun is the problem rather than the strategy. I don't think that a MLT shotgun should be able to one-shot as many people as I do but I think if someone puts the SP into the shotgun then it should one-shot any medium suit close point blank and maybe 2 shot them if not. Shotguns should reward you for your strategy/stealth but not for the balls it takes to charge opponents in a weak suit.
Phazoid The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 40	Posted - 2013.09.20 20:46:00 - [19] - Quote its simple, we kill the batman, jajaja they just have to return it to chome levels the damage is very underwhelming many times i got 2 shots on a medium and he lived, 2 close range shots, sometimes the dmg doesnt registers and a MD normally kills you with 2 shots, and the AR well is plain op, the shotgun as always should be the dominant weapon in CQC, as simple as that, the shotgun is desing and created to devastate something at close range, only heavies should survive a blast of the shotgun at point blank, not even at point blank but at 4-5 meters or more, shotgunners are the dominant species at close range and heavies as well
Dengru SyNergy Gaming EoN. 111	Posted - 2013.09.20 21:05:00 - [20] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: I run an enhanced Gallente scout suit with 2 complex shield extenders and 1 complex kinetic catalyzer. I also have 0 sp invested in shotguns and yet I wouldn't blame CCP if they nerfed the MLT shotgun. With this fit I am able to pull out 20-2 games every so often or just decent games. I think there is a lot to say about the way you approach using a scout/shotgun fitting so I'm not sure if the shotgun is the problem rather than the strategy. I don't think that a MLT shotgun should be able to one-shot as many people as I do but I think if someone puts the SP into the shotgun then it should one-shot any medium suit close point blank and maybe 2 shot them if not. Shotguns should reward you for your strategy/stealth but not for the balls it takes to charge opponents in a weak suit. Full auto weapons and forge guns are effective in their Miltia variants. Shotguns need something else scaled in addition to damage cause everything above the crg superfluous. Making those changes cause people don't like being killed by mlt shotguns is dumb though...

Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1218	Posted - 2013.09.21 04:00:00 - [21] - Quote On the topic, anyone else noticing erratic behavior when firing on moving targets? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=109788&find=unread The above thread discusses (and demonstrates) an alarming, off-target firing pattern. The bug is purportedly dismissed by CCP_Logibro as VFX error, which suggests that damage is dealt appropriately. I bring this up after dying a couple times today after emptying my magazine into a strafing enemies. Having to 3-shot a medium frame I've flanked (who can kill me in a half second) is quite annoying, but what's more annoying not being able to hit someone in range if/when he strafes or hops. Lightning xVx and Morathi III reported having similar problems. Is anyone else? I suspect something more is at play then Uprising's "fire delay" ... - Shotty GoBang ~ 19M SP, SG Operation V, Proficiency III, DS3
Hawk Steel1 The Walking Targets 7	Posted - 2013.09.21 05:03:00 - [22] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: It still loses to MD and AR in CQC. Perhaps increase the damage by a lot and increase the spread, proportionally, so getting an OHK is easier. Why not include God Mode too.
Phazoid The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 43	Posted - 2013.09.21 05:10:00 - [23] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: On the topic, anyone else noticing erratic behavior when firing on moving targets? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=109788&find=unread The above thread discusses (and demonstrates) an alarming, off-target firing pattern. The bug is purportedly dismissed by CCP_Logibro as VFX error, which suggests that damage is dealt appropriately. I bring this up after dying a couple times today after emptying my magazine into a strafing enemies. Having to 3-shot a medium frame I've flanked (who can kill me in a half second) is quite annoying, but what's more annoying not being able to hit someone in range if/when he strafes or hops. Lightning xVx and Morathi III reported having similar problems. Is anyone else? I suspect something more is at play then Uprising's "fire delay" ... - Shotty GoBang ~ 19M SP, SG Operation V, Proficiency III, DS3 same shotty, i experienced that today as well
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1087	Posted - 2013.09.21 05:13:00 - [24] - Quote True story, I had a shotgun toting lunatic bum rush me, and instead of switching to my SMG I instead "Out-shotgunned" him with my Kali Proto tactical... Not that it means I think Shotguns are OP or UP, I just find it hilarious.
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 83	Posted - 2013.09.21 05:55:00 - [25] - Quote I don't really get the saturation of shotgun complaints. I will say that I have noticed some inconsistencies with hit detection, but not nearly as much as everyone seems to be claiming. Overall, with the damage increase, I would say the shotty is performing slightly better than it was in early Uprising. I have seen some odd hit detection, and disappearing damage, but they are few and don't escalate far beyond minor annoyances. Other than that, the shotgun does excellent damage, and has a well balanced spread pattern. I have had no trouble fighting ARs, SRs, MDs, or SMGs in close quarters outside of the unbalanced advantage given by the aim assist. MDs are going to give shotguns trouble in CQC, it does heavy AoE damage, the difference is that the MD user has to sacrifice their own HP to do damage if the shotgunner gets close enough. The only buff I could see not overpowering it would be a very slight optimal and absolute range increase. Something like +1-3m to optimal and +4-6m to absolute. Keep in mind that even a tiny increase to the shotgun's optimal range is a significant buff, as the damage begins to slowly decrease almost immediately as the range increases. It would give the shotgun better consistency if it did 100% damage to about 2m, instead of the variance of about 100-85% that it currently has within that range. Also, Char, did you land on your head during one of your last few corporation bailouts? Most of your recent posts have been a bit...convoluted...more so than usual, I mean. I guess it was bound to happen when you jump ship as often as you do.


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