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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
549
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Posted - 2013.09.16 12:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Alldin Kan wrote:Orenji Jiji wrote:Because as soon as it's in you guys will start trying to get the limitations lowered. CCP already knows that.
Also this would break the game, but you already know that, you just don't care. You'd like to have as much fun with the game, even if it means you would run it to the ground.
Also I'm with the other guy -- respec should cost you 50% of SP you reverse. You'd have to reverse every skill level manually and would only get half of it back, the rest would go *puff*. That would be some price to pay. Explain to me in full details how a respec for everyone truly breaks the game. Oh wait you can't. /sigh/ Seriously? Are you too lazy to find the answer yourself? This has been discussed for the past year and a half already and you didn't bother to do a search of the forums for it? http://dustsearch.com/ all the "reasons" would be true if all contant were ingame and balancing was already done. currently we are still in beta, we dont have many choices and we are still testing around (with limited content), despite CCP removing the beta flag.
not only that, but there are major changes every patch. |
steady rikia
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.09.16 12:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
For the millionth time no respecs end of. Dust514 is all about choice and consequences sometimes u get it right and sometimes you get wrong, learn to live with your choices |
D34NOS MAZDA
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
130
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Posted - 2013.09.16 12:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
Delonius from Khanid wrote:What is the point of 1 respec in 1 year? You can get 20mill SP during that time without boosters. Enough to master even multiple roles.
Respec would make this whole training system pointless. If you want to be effective in multiple roles to be able to accomodate better to different situations then work for it.
Any kind of respec would support only the people who are not even playing the game but want to jump from one broken/OP setup to another after balance changes. And this is not something what I would encourage.
Lol 20m SP to master multiple rolls.
I have around 18 - 19m SP and still have a further 8m to spend to max out my logi and this doesn't include all of my sharpshooter & reload etc.
Maybe the next 20m I will be able to max out a further 2 roles due to having my core skills already. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1248
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Posted - 2013.09.16 13:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
I understand both sides of the issue. The issue that I have with the no respec crowd is that the game isn't close to a finished product. I understand that the game will continue to evolve over time, Eve blah blah blah.
This game doesn't even have the core mechanics stable yet. Major changes in gameplay have taken place. Huge chunks of racial variants are not released yet. Vehicles sat neglected for months.
I have adjusted at every turn and in another 6 months it won't matter what change they'll make, but it still seems like a bad business model to hold people accountable for "mistakes" that are not their fault. There is no amount of convincing that will ever make me buy into believing that I must use a crystal ball to forecast future changes when making my SP decisions.
I adapt, but then again I am probably clinically addicted to this game. Not everyone shows the same patience. |
demonkiller 12
G.U.T.Z Covert Intervention
203
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Posted - 2013.09.16 13:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
500mil isk dust only there, we're done here
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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
733
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 13:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
The only respec idea I could support is DUST Fiend's "slow rolling respec" idea.
You'd get to undo one invested skill point per week. Points accumulate from week to week.
That's the only fair and balanced idea on this subject I've ever seen on these forums. |
semperfi1999
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
929
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Posted - 2013.09.16 14:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
One of the few time I can honestly say I completely agree with Jack McReady.......
Honestly anyone who argues against this now is just a ret@rd. This game has so many problems and massive swings in balance as CCP adds new content or nerf hammers something. Repecs should be given since it literally takes 3 months to max out a high tier skill....really 3 freaking months!!?? If you want to make this game 100% grind like CCP has done then they should offer respecs for those who would like. How they do it I dont care. Whether its slowly unskilling in an area and reskilling into another.....or whether you pay 100mil isk for that respec I dont think it matters. It just needs to be done.
I initially wasnt for respecs because I didnt want this game to be "carebear"....but its too late for that honestly. This is already the most carebear and least hardcore FPS game I have ever played. Its time for CCP to admit this and adjust their game philosophy accordingly. |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
420
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Posted - 2013.09.16 14:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:people get bored.. and they dont want to wait 3 months to try something new. You don't have to go full proto in order to "try something new." In fact--shocker!--you can try something new with the standard tier. ~200k sp (ONE WEEK) for Advanced. GTFO with nonsense arguments that you have to wait so long to try something new. It's an old and tired argument that nobody believes anymore.
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Lea Silencio
D3ath D3alers
167
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Posted - 2013.09.16 15:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
No for respec.
Live with your mistakes.
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TcuBe3
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
65
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Posted - 2013.09.17 00:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
DJINN MUSTARD wrote:Alldin Kan wrote:Can only be done once per year. Why is this not implemented yet? CRYING AGAIN? Just delete dust and cry to your mommy! Live with your choices SCRUB!
Way to bring this thread back to the 3rd grade. Why don't you take a timeout and come back to the adults table when you have something constructive to contribute to the thread!
The only "scrub" here is you for jumping on the scrub bandwagon. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8553
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 00:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Alldin Kan wrote:Orenji Jiji wrote:Because as soon as it's in you guys will start trying to get the limitations lowered. CCP already knows that.
Also this would break the game, but you already know that, you just don't care. You'd like to have as much fun with the game, even if it means you would run it to the ground.
Also I'm with the other guy -- respec should cost you 50% of SP you reverse. You'd have to reverse every skill level manually and would only get half of it back, the rest would go *puff*. That would be some price to pay. Explain to me in full details how a respec for everyone truly breaks the game. Oh wait you can't. /sigh/ Seriously? Are you too lazy to find the answer yourself? This has been discussed for the past year and a half already and you didn't bother to do a search of the forums for it? http://dustsearch.com/ all the "reasons" would be true if all content were ingame and balancing was already done. currently we are still in beta, we dont have many choices and we are still testing around (with limited content), despite CCP removing the beta flag. the fact that everything takes so long to get into also delays balancing significantly and there are major changes every patch too.
Balancing is never ending. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1249
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 01:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Alldin Kan wrote:Orenji Jiji wrote:Because as soon as it's in you guys will start trying to get the limitations lowered. CCP already knows that.
Also this would break the game, but you already know that, you just don't care. You'd like to have as much fun with the game, even if it means you would run it to the ground.
Also I'm with the other guy -- respec should cost you 50% of SP you reverse. You'd have to reverse every skill level manually and would only get half of it back, the rest would go *puff*. That would be some price to pay. Explain to me in full details how a respec for everyone truly breaks the game. Oh wait you can't. /sigh/ Seriously? Are you too lazy to find the answer yourself? This has been discussed for the past year and a half already and you didn't bother to do a search of the forums for it? http://dustsearch.com/ all the "reasons" would be true if all content were ingame and balancing was already done. currently we are still in beta, we dont have many choices and we are still testing around (with limited content), despite CCP removing the beta flag. the fact that everything takes so long to get into also delays balancing significantly and there are major changes every patch too. Balancing is never ending.
I think we can both agree that what is happening right now is a little beyond balancing. Personally I'm not worried about a respec. I however do worry that not enough people will have the patience to wait through whatever process this is. I think it's pretty fair to say this is still beta. I don't see the big deal in offering some sort of reallocation if it means a larger player base.
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321p
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2013.09.19 01:43:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP would **** a brick if they saw me respec 10 times through ISK...
100,000,000 ISK is too little :p
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3631
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Athena Sentinel wrote:Why do we have to think of the system for CCP - The vocal minority wants respecs.... We don't care how but with major changes to come we want it.
There should be no other issue. Let the minority shout - if they get gimped in 1.5 they would quickly change there minds! Fixed that for you. |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1142
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:the respec thing boils down to a few factors
people get bored.. and they dont want to wait 3 months to try something new.
you have to spend millions of SP and months of waiting just to try something new and see if you like it, thats a huge risk and that why you see so many AR Assault/logis running around. it works and even if you get bored you have a pretty stable playstyle that will always be viable.
other playstyles like heavy are risky, if you go with a basic heavy with basic stuff your not going to be terribly effective and it doesnt give you a good view of how the class is going to perform over the long run.
a novaknife scout is a sidespec for most of us who occasionally run them, we never know update to update weather its still going to work so we use a half effective version of it for fun but not as a serious playstyle (there are a few who go die hard novaknife all the time, but they are rare)
basically not having respecs in a game with this SP system means that you will losemost of the variety in a game built for variety, people will be stable and predictable.
thats why the AR is king, not becuase its the best weapon, but because its the safest weapon to learn and use. its predictable and will always be viable.
a limited respec would alow people to try out new playstyles at their peak and would intropduce some variety to gameplay, and while its true that it would also produce FOTM chasers thats not actually a bad thing because its a good indication of whats overpowered rather then whats overused like we have now.
+1 to this.... |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1142
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:05:00 -
[46] - Quote
Delonius from Khanid wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:the respec thing boils down to a few factors
people get bored.. and they dont want to wait 3 months to try something new.
you have to spend millions of SP and months of waiting just to try something new and see if you like it, thats a huge risk and that why you see so many AR Assault/logis running around. it works and even if you get bored you have a pretty stable playstyle that will always be viable.
other playstyles like heavy are risky, if you go with a basic heavy with basic stuff your not going to be terribly effective and it doesnt give you a good view of how the class is going to perform over the long run.
a novaknife scout is a sidespec for most of us who occasionally run them, we never know update to update weather its still going to work so we use a half effective version of it for fun but not as a serious playstyle (there are a few who go die hard novaknife all the time, but they are rare)
basically not having respecs in a game with this SP system means that you will losemost of the variety in a game built for variety, people will be stable and predictable.
thats why the AR is king, not becuase its the best weapon, but because its the safest weapon to learn and use. its predictable and will always be viable.
a limited respec would alow people to try out new playstyles at their peak and would intropduce some variety to gameplay, and while its true that it would also produce FOTM chasers thats not actually a bad thing because its a good indication of whats overpowered rather then whats overused like we have now. Some kind of practice mode would be more reasonable for that purpose.
It WONT HELP the people who already have 10+ mil already invested in crap that was changed/nerfed/modified or had shoddy descriptions... |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1145
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:people get bored.. and they dont want to wait 3 months to try something new. You don't have to go full proto in order to "try something new." In fact--shocker!--you can try something new with the standard tier. ~200k sp (ONE WEEK) for Advanced. GTFO with nonsense arguments that you have to wait so long to try something new. It's an old and tired argument that nobody believes anymore.
True, i have almost every suit (not gallante) Up to level 3. Every weapon in level 3-4. This leaves me at around - 7 million out of my 15 million i would really like back in order to improve the gamestyle i've chose upon.
''TESTING'' things shouldnt cost me a whole week of sp gain. |
William HBonney
Ancient Exiles
362
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
The fact that there are FOTM chasers says something is off about the game in general. This is NOT a hardcore game, the tactical decisions are limited and the only true thing about this "game" is that it often time feels like work. Having the need for grinding does not make a game good, having decisions "matter" doesn't matter because it is a game. The FPS that this game is most like would be MAG and it seems to be dying just as fast. The FPS crowd does not want a grind game, and you do not gain new people by having a grind game. New guy comes in can now kill people with the change to AIM assist, but if he wants to try something new out he is looking at 2 weeks of grinding with the same set-up he wants to get away from....which is when you turn a game into a job.
We don't want scrubs like that anyway! This game isn't lacking numbers or anything....and I love how people call Aldin a scrub...Respecs allow people to experiment and increases the joy of the game. Dust differs from EVE a bit because the battles are here and now and you cannot do laundry....wait... I see, if we allow respecs we will diminish AFKers as well, but we don't really want to improve the game, we want to keep the idea that we are badass and this game makes decisions matter... |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
766
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:29:00 -
[49] - Quote
How many people crying "Respecs are P2W" have used Boosters that are not purchasable with in-game currency? |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1146
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
William HBonney wrote:The fact that there are FOTM chasers says something is off about the game in general. This is NOT a hardcore game, the tactical decisions are limited and the only true thing about this "game" is that it often time feels like work. Having the need for grinding does not make a game good, having decisions "matter" doesn't matter because it is a game. The FPS that this game is most like would be MAG and it seems to be dying just as fast. The FPS crowd does not want a grind game, and you do not gain new people by having a grind game. New guy comes in can now kill people with the change to AIM assist, but if he wants to try something new out he is looking at 2 weeks of grinding with the same set-up he wants to get away from....which is when you turn a game into a job.
We don't want scrubs like that anyway! This game isn't lacking numbers or anything....and I love how people call Aldin a scrub...Respecs allow people to experiment and increases the joy of the game. Dust differs from EVE a bit because the battles are here and now and you cannot do laundry....wait... I see, if we allow respecs we will diminish AFKers as well, but we don't really want to improve the game, we want to keep the idea that we are badass and this game makes decisions matter...
''MAG and it seems to be dying just as fast'' Actually MAG hang on for quite a while....
''The FPS crowd does not want a grind game, and you do not gain new people by having a grind game. '' NOT ONLY THIS ^^^, but if FPS hardcore gamers AND casual gamers Leave,EVE players are not going to step up and keep the game going. As it is, the amount of EVE players in DUST514 is NOT the major player base of DUST players.FPS lovers are
''.Respecs allow people to experiment and increases the joy of the game.'' Well said. |
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William HBonney
Ancient Exiles
364
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Posted - 2013.09.19 02:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
I was with MAG the day beta started, I was with it for about 2.5-3 years, but their system was good because you could NOT get everything so how you allocated your skill points made more of a "decision matters" then what we have here in DUST. There is massive potential here, which is why I am still here, and my comp can't run PS2 very well, but when PS4 comes around it may mean that DUST dies, for me at least. Would a respec stop that from happening? perhaps not, but it would not damage the player base. I must say I enjoy this build the most, because it makes the people who shoot first matter, as well as scanners and communication play a larger role. |
William HBonney
Ancient Exiles
364
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:36:00 -
[52] - Quote
And I would make the respec cost a % of your total earned SP, and the cost for Repecs would be WP, not ISK, perhaps AUR, because they need to make money. |
Fire9er Greko
Axis of Chaos
72
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 10:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
BUMP |
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