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lrian Locust
DUST University Ivy League
107
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Posted - 2013.09.13 16:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm annoyed that it is relatively hard to kill by far most mercs with a sniper rifle. This makes it hard for a single sniper to kill his target, as it can take up to 8 consecutive hits, 2 reloads and 16 seconds with a proto sniper rifle to down a heavy.
I understand that CCP doesn't want snipers to be overpowered, so I'd like to see the following sniper rifle somewhere down the road:
- proto level - more sway - more zoom - just one bullet - But if you manage to hit someone, you'll be pretty sure that he's dead!
And while I'm at it, a breathing mechanic would be great for all snipers, to distinguish the good from the bad. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
114
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
I dont like this idea personally. But I have a counter-idea.
Right now, there are "heavy weapons", that are only fittable by a "heavy suit". What if there were special "sniper weapons" that were only fittable by a sniper suit? One that was very specificall a varient of a light suit? Medium has two variants: assault and logi. Light could then have two varients: scout and sniper
sniper-only rifles would be marked by their extra precision of fire, and possible target ID capabilities. All the "high-end" sniper rifles should be "sniperonly". This would eliminate the annoyance of "jerk sitting in a heavy suit with a thales"
It might also make CCP feel a bit less ... constricted.. about giving snipers more benefits.
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lrian Locust
DUST University Ivy League
107
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't like the idea of limiting weapons to certain advanced fits. And very advanced weapons in the hands of a specialist might very well become OP. People will always find a way to exploit it. That's why every weapon should be balanced. That's why I proposed a more powerful sniper rifle, but without the opportunity of follow-up shots and added sway. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
114
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
lrian Locust wrote:I don't like the idea of limiting weapons to certain advanced fits. And very advanced weapons in the hands of a specialist might very well become OP. People will always find a way to exploit it. That's why every weapon should be balanced. That's why I proposed a more powerful sniper rifle, but without the opportunity of follow-up shots and added sway.
We dont need a more powerful sniper rifle. Two HEADSHOTS takes out most anyone. If you cant get two headshots, switch to using TAC variant. If you still cant, then you should switch to a different weapon, cause you're not meant to be using a snipe rifle.
As for balance; the balance is putting the weapon in the hands of a scout suits, which means the player would be wearing tinfoil instead of armor.
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
249
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote: Light could then have two varients: scout and sniper
FYI, the pilot suit is going to be a light suit so lights will have two specializations as well.
Edit: And honestly, it's difficult to evaluate snipers atm due to Terrible rendering distance Terrain "inflating" at distance causing enemies to "sink" into buildings, ground, etc Poor hit detection
I feel that sniping will still need a buff after those are fixed though |
ghjl ghjkl
Patriotic Investment Group Inc.
5
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
lrian Locust wrote:I'm annoyed that it is relatively hard to kill by far most mercs with a sniper rifle. This makes it hard for a single sniper to kill his target, as it can take up to 8 consecutive hits, 2 reloads and 16 seconds with a proto sniper rifle to down a heavy.
I understand that CCP doesn't want snipers to be overpowered, so I'd like to see the following sniper rifle somewhere down the road:
- proto level - more sway - more zoom - just one bullet - But if you manage to hit someone, you'll be pretty sure that he's dead!
And while I'm at it, a breathing mechanic would be great for all snipers, to distinguish the good from the bad. or... How about a 50 cal rifle variant for a commando suit. You would need that frame to carry the weapon, but it takes up both light slots.
edit: maybe add a large dig to it to say look at me I have a big mofo gun that will rip your head right off! |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
114
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
ghjl ghjkl wrote: And while I'm at it, a breathing mechanic would be great for all snipers, to distinguish the good from the bad.
or... How about a 50 cal rifle variant for a commando suit. You would need that frame to carry the weapon, but it takes up both light slots.
[/quote]
Dont like the "commando" limitation. Do like the "uses up 2 weapon slots" requirement. 'Course, you could do something similar by just giving it ludicrous power requirements. But then it would still get taken up by logis. Requiring two weapon slots has the bonus that it doesnt let logis wield it.
Could make it, "no hipfire, requires mono-or-bipod". Which would give it an excuse to use up the sidearm slot, for the stand. but needs an excuse to not allow heavies to use it. Heavies have enough high damage weapons as it is. |
Jathniel
G I A N T EoN.
910
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
There's an upcoming heavy weapon that will work at mid-long range coming up soon.
(Laser Category)
https://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/
The Rail Rifle will probably be the next best alternative to the sniper rifle when it comes out. I advise saving your SP so you can go rail, when it comes out. Check CCP Remnant's description of the rail rifle at the bottom.
The sniper rifle as it currently works is a broken weapon. You can skill into scramblers now and have a decent weapon to use at mid-long range, or you can bite the bullet until the Rails come out.
But don't expect CCP to give ANY attention to the sniper rifle, at all.... ANYTIME soon. The new map design theory is completely geared against them. It's broken. |
ghjl ghjkl
Patriotic Investment Group Inc.
5
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:There's an upcoming heavy weapon that will work at mid-long range coming up soon. (Laser Category) https://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/The Rail Rifle will probably be the next best alternative to the sniper rifle when it comes out. I advise saving your SP so you can go rail, when it comes out. Check CCP Remnant's description of the rail rifle at the bottom. The sniper rifle as it currently works is a broken weapon. You can skill into scramblers now and have a decent weapon to use at mid-long range, or you can bite the bullet until the Rails come out. But don't expect CCP to give ANY attention to the sniper rifle, at all.... ANYTIME soon. The new map design theory is completely geared against them. It's broken. saving sp does sound like a great idea atm |
lrian Locust
DUST University Ivy League
108
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Posted - 2013.09.13 18:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:We dont need a more powerful sniper rifle. Two HEADSHOTS takes out most anyone. If you cant get two headshots, switch to using TAC variant. Try landing two headshots first. Then you'll notice that together they only do 622 damage - the same as a standard assault rifle does in a split second.
The first headshot is not that hard. The second one, with someone bunny-hopping, strafing and dashing for cover is extremely hard. That's why a tactical sniper rifle shines when it comes to support and assaults in a squad. By itself, e.g. a lone sniper covering an objective, it's hardly feasible. |
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
202
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Posted - 2013.09.13 18:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't like: More sway Breathing mechanic
I approve of: More zoom Higher damage for sniper rifles Limiting sniper rifles to light sniper suit
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Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
118
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Posted - 2013.09.13 19:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
lrian Locust wrote: The first headshot is not that hard. The second one, with someone bunny-hopping, strafing and dashing for cover is extremely hard. That's why a tactical sniper rifle shines when it comes to support and assaults in a squad.
You seem to imply travelling "with" a squad. In that situation, sniper rifle is the wrong tool for the job. The right tool there is either AR, or scrambler rifle. Complaining "A sniper rifle doesnt suit my game style while shooting from 50-150m" is kinda like complaining "my LAV doesnt suit my style of trying to shoot down tanks". Use the right tool for the job.
Yeah, you "can" use a sniper rifle in that sort of thing, but dont expect any sympathy that it isnt designed for the job.
Quote:
Besides, how many FPSs do you know where an ordinary grunt survives 2 headshots?
THAT, I have problems with. But you didnt complain about that in your post, you only whined for "MOAR POWAH!!" in general.
Also, for the record, I have never seen an "ordinary" grunt survive two headshots from a sniper rifle. Only heavies, and very very buffed up medium suits/logis Although I suppose I should mention that I usually use the "210+ hp damage" sniper rifles, not the tac ones.
Without any damage mods, btw.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
118
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Posted - 2013.09.13 19:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote: Edit: And honestly, it's difficult to evaluate snipers atm due to Terrible rendering distance Terrain "inflating" at distance causing enemies to "sink" into buildings, ground, etc Poor hit detection
What is this "terrible rendering distance" issue? Do you may be have details turned down in your options, or something? I dont notice a problem there when sniping @450m. Yes they're tiny. but I can see that the little ants are THERE, and I can hit them. And, to be honest.. it SHOULD be difficult to hit something at four hundred and fifty meters out So, not too much of a problem in my book :) Really, its an advantage to snipers :-/ The smaller they are, the easier they are to hit. Game mechanic glitch. If they are "1 pixel wide", and your scope target is "1 pixel wide", all you have to do is get them on top of each other and you hit them (in my experience, anyway). Not realistic, but easier than realistic. More zoom would probably make it more difficult.
skew of targets vs environment is a problem. didnt realize that is a "thing". Hadnt noticed too much, other than that one terrain glitch on top of the tower with the pointy bit in the middle. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
251
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Posted - 2013.09.13 19:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Krom Ganesh wrote: Edit: And honestly, it's difficult to evaluate snipers atm due to Terrible rendering distance Terrain "inflating" at distance causing enemies to "sink" into buildings, ground, etc Poor hit detection
What is this "terrible rendering distance" issue? Do you may be have details turned down in your options, or something? I dont notice a problem there when sniping @450m. Yes they're tiny. but I know they're THERE, and I can hit them. So, not a problem in my book :) skew of targets vs environment is a problem. didnt realize that is a "thing". Hadnt noticed too much, other than that one terrain glitch on top of the tower with the pointy bit in the middle.
...
After around 500m, mercs are not rendered. Occasionally a vehicle will be but not always.
After some distance (perhaps 250-ish?), buildings switch to a low res model that is larger than the higher res model and physics model, meaning targets running by a building will be "inside" the building and targets running on platform-like areas will be buried (often to where only their heads show).
How have you never noticed this? |
lrian Locust
DUST University Ivy League
108
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Posted - 2013.09.13 19:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:You seem to imply travelling "with" a squad. In that situation, sniper rifle is the wrong tool for the job. The right tool there is either AR, or scrambler rifle. Complaining "A sniper rifle doesnt suit my game style while shooting from 50-150m" is kinda like complaining "my LAV doesnt suit my style of trying to shoot down tanks". Use the right tool for the job.
Yeah, you "can" use a sniper rifle in that sort of thing, but dont expect any sympathy that it isnt designed for the job. That's EXACTLY the point I'm trying to make. By itself, the tactical sniper rifle is to weak to kill enemies without headshots. That's why it's only beneficial when supporting a squad. Note that that doesn't mean to BE with the squad, just to be able to shoot where they shoot.
Quil Evrything wrote:lrian Locust wrote:Besides, how many FPSs do you know where an ordinary grunt survives 2 headshots? THAT, I have problems with. But you didnt complain about that in your post, you only whined for "MOAR POWAH!!" in general. The added power would solve this. I don't think as I was whining, as a stated my reasons and calculated why. Can you please keep the discussion civil?
Quil Evrything wrote:Also, for the record, I have never seen an "ordinary" grunt survive two headshots from a sniper rifle. Only heavies, and very very buffed up medium suits/logis Although I suppose I should mention that I usually use the "210+ hp damage" sniper rifles, not the tac ones.Without any damage mods, btw. The headshot damage was nerfed during 1.4, losing 25% of its additional damage. I've used the tactical as an example, because that's the one that gets the most headshots. The fact that medium suits can survive 2 headshots of a proto rifle, should be enough. |
lrian Locust
DUST University Ivy League
108
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 19:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:After around 500m, mercs are not rendered. Occasionally a vehicle will be but not always.
After some distance (perhaps 250-ish?), buildings switch to a low res model that is larger than the higher res model and physics model, meaning targets running by a building will be "inside" the building and targets running on platform-like areas will be buried (often to where only their heads show).
How have you never noticed this? All the time! It's really annoying, because you can't shoot what you can't see.
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lrian Locust
DUST University Ivy League
108
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 19:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:I don't like: More sway Breathing mechanic
I approve of: More zoom Higher damage for sniper rifles Limiting sniper rifles to light sniper suit
Sniper rifles can use a buff in general, but for a significant increase in power there has to be a tradeoff in usability.
I wouldn't like to limit weapons to certain fittings. It wouldn't make sense either.
I understand that everyone wants to avoid the padded 3 x complex damage mod Thales user in the redline, but that should be done by fixing redlining. Even they can be countersniped (coordinated) and they aleady sacrificed their mobility, so their lines of sight and exit points are very limited. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
118
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 20:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
lrian Locust wrote: ... That's EXACTLY the point I'm trying to make. By itself, the tactical sniper rifle is to weak to kill enemies without headshots.
Then use a different one, if you want to "kill enemies". Again, "right tool for the right job". Tactical, does not mean "most deadly". Just the opposite, in fact.
If you want "da big boom", you obviously should be using a charged.
Quote: The headshot damage was nerfed during 1.4, losing 25% of its additional damage. ... The fact that medium suits can survive 2 headshots of a proto rifle, should be enough.
You're using the wrong proto rifle. Use the charged. It already has what you are asking for, I think? "extra damage, single shot". But even better than what you asked, becuase you get a half-damage followup shot.
I will agree that they should "un-nerf" headshots for sniper rifles, though. I didnt realize they'd messed with that.
PS to others: Oh, right, the wierd building behaviour. I dont see that much because I mostly countersnipe. In those cases, I just trust my instruments over my eyes, and take the shot anyway. Red dot + clean tactical readout, means, "line-of-sight clear, fire,fire,fire!" but yeah they should fix that. |
lrian Locust
DUST University Ivy League
109
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 22:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Then use a different one, if you want to "kill enemies". Again, "right tool for the right job". If you want "da big boom", you obviously should be using a charged. That's what I do most of the time, but with the Charge you lose zoom. And getting a headshot is much harder. So let's do the math for a Charge: a guaranteed kill needs 5 fully charged shots, which takes 12 seconds, provided the enemy doesn't move.
And that's for 5 fully charged shots, from the most powerful proto sniper rifle you can buy.
Same as with the tactical. All proto sniper rifles need a boost, so lone snipers have more of a change to kill targets without support. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
118
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 23:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
lrian Locust wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:Then use a different one, if you want to "kill enemies". Again, "right tool for the right job". If you want "da big boom", you obviously should be using a charged. That's what I do most of the time, but with the Charge you lose zoom. And getting a headshot is much harder.
But gee, wasnt that *exactly* what you were asking before, previously? "[give me more power, just make it harder to hit the enemy...]"
lrian Locust wrote: So let's do the math for a Charge: a guaranteed kill needs 5 fully charged shots, which takes 12 seconds, provided the enemy doesn't move.
I like math. Let's indeed "do the math". Please show your work, as they say in math class.
PS: what's the current headshot bonus factor? |
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lrian Locust
DUST University Ivy League
109
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Posted - 2013.09.13 23:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:But gee, wasnt that *exactly* what you were asking before, previously? "[give me more power, just make it harder to hit the enemy...]" No, that wasn't exactly what I said. I said two things: - sniper rifles should have a buff - for a significant boost in damage and/or zoom, there should be a tradeoff in usability. Hence the increased sway and 1 shot rifle. It would make it more of an OHK high damage, no second chances, hard to master weapon.
Quil Evrything wrote:lrian Locust wrote: So let's do the math for a Charge: a guaranteed kill needs 5 fully charged shots, which takes 12 seconds, provided the enemy doesn't move.
I like math. Let's indeed "do the math". Please show your work, as they say in math class. PS: what's the current headshot bonus factor? The current factor I've heard is 1.75, but that wasn't confirmed by a Dev. I'll get back to you on the math - already trashed my notes. And I didn't factor in damage modifiers for armor vs shield either, as I don't know the build with a maximum of 1,591 eHP. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
118
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Posted - 2013.09.14 00:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
lrian Locust wrote: The current factor I've heard is 1.75, but that wasn't confirmed by a Dev. I'll get back to you on the math - already trashed my notes. And I didn't factor in damage modifiers for armor vs shield either, as I don't know the build with a maximum of 1,591 eHP.
1500 hp is a walking LAV. (or low-flying dropship, lol?)
At that point, the problem isnt sniper rifles. The problem is OP shielding.
'cause if a sniper rifle could take out a dropsuit with that much HP in one hit, I would expect it to also be able to take out LAVs. Which isnt reasonable. |
lrian Locust
DUST University Ivy League
110
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Posted - 2013.09.14 00:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:1500 hp is a walking LAV. (or low-flying dropship, lol?) At that point, the problem isnt sniper rifles. The problem is OP shielding.
'cause if a sniper rifle could take out a dropsuit with that much HP in one hit, I would expect it to also be able to take out LAVs. Which isnt reasonable. I totally agree!
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
254
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Posted - 2013.09.14 03:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:lrian Locust wrote: The current factor I've heard is 1.75, but that wasn't confirmed by a Dev. I'll get back to you on the math - already trashed my notes. And I didn't factor in damage modifiers for armor vs shield either, as I don't know the build with a maximum of 1,591 eHP.
1500 hp is a walking LAV. (or low-flying dropship, lol?) At that point, the problem isnt sniper rifles. The problem is OP shielding. 'cause if a sniper rifle could take out a dropsuit with that much HP in one hit, I would expect it to also be able to take out LAVs. Which isnt reasonable.
Actually, no it couldn't. Sniper rifles have greatly reduced damage to vehicles. I believe against tanks its around 11% and I'm pretty sure it is similar for LAVs as well.
But yes, if there is a suit that can get 1500 ehp, then there is a problem. |
Thurak1
Psygod9
168
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Posted - 2013.09.14 04:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Pretty sure a heavy suit can come close to those numbers. My basic sentinal suit that i use often has 1k ehps. I only have a militia sheild extender so a proto suit with all proto gear i think can reach 1.5k ehps. |
Dominus Fatali
Nox Aeterna Security
211
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Posted - 2013.09.14 16:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
I've been one shotted in my proto suit before, from a Militia Snipper Riffle. That being said, I'm a Scout. Meaning that Snippers are OP against Scouts, nerf them!!!
This is the folly of judging a weapon by it's performance against a specific suit (i.e. Heavy or Scout). In general, I find Snipper Riffles to be pretty balanced as weapons, though some users seem to use them in silly ways (Redline/MCC Snippers).
However, the one shot super high damage variant might be interesting. Longer reload, charge time, better zoom, single round mag. Pretty balanced in my opinion. |
lrian Locust
DUST University Ivy League
115
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 02:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dominus Fatali wrote:I've been one shotted in my proto suit before, from a Militia Snipper Riffle. That being said, I'm a Scout. Meaning that Snippers are OP against Scouts, nerf them!!! Yes, but scouts need a buff as well. With the current 209 damage of a standard sniper rifle and the 190 eHP of a sniper suit, the sniper rifle vs. the scout seems balanced. The weakest version of the weakest suit in the game shouldn't be able to withstand a sniper bullet. A scout's speed (not enough) and a smaller hitbox (needs to be fixed) would make the scout much harder to hit with a sniper rifle. Or use modules to gain 20 HP more, so you can withstand a hit.
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Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
905
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Posted - 2013.09.15 02:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sniper Rifle that can kill most in great speed?
Forge Gun. Myself, I may be one of the few people who don't frown upon the use of it as a heavy sniper, but it works quite well for that purpose.
That, or a Charge Sniper.
Those things still 1-2HK me if I'm not careful to keep moving. |
Dominus Fatali
Nox Aeterna Security
213
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Posted - 2013.09.16 13:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
lrian Locust wrote:Dominus Fatali wrote:I've been one shotted in my proto suit before, from a Militia Snipper Riffle. That being said, I'm a Scout. Meaning that Snippers are OP against Scouts, nerf them!!! Yes, but scouts need a buff as well. With the current 209 damage of a standard sniper rifle and the 190 eHP of a sniper suit, the sniper rifle vs. the scout seems balanced. The weakest version of the weakest suit in the game shouldn't be able to withstand a sniper bullet. A scout's speed (not enough) and a smaller hitbox (needs to be fixed) would make the scout much harder to hit with a sniper rifle. Or use modules to gain 20 HP more, so you can withstand a hit. You may have missed the second part of my post, showing the inherent flaw in comparing a single weapon to a certain fitting, as you did in the original post (regarding heavies being hard to kill). I don't actually view being snipped as a problem, if they are skilled (or lucky) enough to hit me they deserve the kill. |
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