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Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
811
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Posted - 2013.09.13 09:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
i can see this as an acurate rebuttal to claims of the disparity between ARs and ASRs
buuuttttt......
ARs have gotten out of hand, you HAVE to use it to be competitive, anyone who ISNT using it competitivly and is using something else would stand to gain from switching to either the AR or the ASR/SR
so while i respect that the difference between them is marginal... that doesnt make it any better
and when i say AR i mean all 3, AR/SR/ASR. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
812
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 10:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:i can see this as an acurate rebuttal to claims of the disparity between ARs and ASRs
buuuttttt......
ARs have gotten out of hand, you HAVE to use it to be competitive, anyone who ISNT using it competitivly and is using something else would stand to gain from switching to either the AR or the ASR/SR
so while i respect that the difference between them is marginal... that doesnt make it any better
and when i say AR i mean all 3, AR/SR/ASR. So, essentially what your saying is this isn't related to the Assault Rifle anymore - it's related to anything that isn't a specialist weapon? Just the bread and butter of the races? DPS is largely the same and each have their own strengths and weaknesses. This was thrown up because I'm tired of people making false assumptions about weapons they really have no clue about because it just happens to be useful and used by other players who are effective with them. Range is also a significant factor as Assault Scrambler Rifles, while having the same optimal, have larger fall off range - so by all rights it's a better weapon with the single exception of low armor damage. Of course, this isn't something you really have to worry about considering that it's forefront design and philosophy is for use against shield tankers anyway and considering how many of them are left over from the FotM Caldari Logi, you shouldn't have a problem at all. I've yet to see any information provided that gives legitimate reasoning, let alone with accurate information, as to why the Assault Rifle should be nerfed.
step 1: equip proto logi suit of choice step 2: throw a duvolle AR on it (bonus points for as much proficiancy as you can manage) setp 3: Allotec Nanohive (rep hive) step 4: Brick tank with all the leftoveer CPU/PG forget everything else you dont need it
Setep 5: only die to those who dont follow this guide
easily repeatable experament
use this framework with any class (insert ASR if you wish) just brick tank with an assault rifle and only die to huge mistakes and other people using it....
thats an issue, it COMPLETLY domanates any other build, it invalidates any other weapon for all but the most experianced and skilled (SP and RL skils) and every person who uses specialist weapons would be 1000x better off just using an AR and will see a marked increase of effectivness in every situation, even situations where their specialist weapon would of shined |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
812
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 10:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:i can see this as an acurate rebuttal to claims of the disparity between ARs and ASRs
buuuttttt......
ARs have gotten out of hand, you HAVE to use it to be competitive, anyone who ISNT using it competitivly and is using something else would stand to gain from switching to either the AR or the ASR/SR
so while i respect that the difference between them is marginal... that doesnt make it any better
and when i say AR i mean all 3, AR/SR/ASR. So, essentially what your saying is this isn't related to the Assault Rifle anymore - it's related to anything that isn't a specialist weapon? Just the bread and butter of the races? DPS is largely the same and each have their own strengths and weaknesses. This was thrown up because I'm tired of people making false assumptions about weapons they really have no clue about because it just happens to be useful and used by other players who are effective with them. Range is also a significant factor as Assault Scrambler Rifles, while having the same optimal, have larger fall off range - so by all rights it's a better weapon with the single exception of low armor damage. Of course, this isn't something you really have to worry about considering that it's forefront design and philosophy is for use against shield tankers anyway and considering how many of them are left over from the FotM Caldari Logi, you shouldn't have a problem at all. I've yet to see any information provided that gives legitimate reasoning, let alone with accurate information, as to why the Assault Rifle should be nerfed. step 1: equip proto logi suit of choice step 2: throw a duvolle AR on it (bonus points for as much proficiancy as you can manage) setp 3: Allotec Nanohive (rep hive) step 4: Brick tank with all the leftoveer CPU/PG forget everything else you dont need it Setep 5: only die to those who dont follow this guide easily repeatable experament use this framework with any class (insert ASR if you wish) just brick tank with an assault rifle and only die to huge mistakes and other people using it.... thats an issue, it COMPLETLY domanates any other build, it invalidates any other weapon for all but the most experianced and skilled (SP and RL skils) and every person who uses specialist weapons would be 1000x better off just using an AR and will see a marked increase of effectivness in every situation, even situations where their specialist weapon would of shined Easy. Flux Grenade (removes equipment!) + Mass Driver. I run Assault as a specialization, it's my job to deal with everything and I know a hundred and one counters to anything infantry based.
you throw flux... you die...
do you knwo how many people tryed this on me today???
my hive isnt under my feet, its not like you can just walk up and flux it.
if i shoot you first... your not getting back into cover unless your built similarly, you die in under 2 seconds.
thats not a counter... it diddnt coutner me once today or yesterday during my testing, and it wasnt for lack of trying.
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Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
812
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 10:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
I challenge that theory - and I won't even use an Assault Rifle to prove it.
not a theory... ive spent nearly 2 days doing it...
this felt more like cheating then the good ole invisable shotgunner wars were infamous for.
(most peopel dont know how to stop cooking the granade though, they just kind of fall over and die....)
the point is that for that slip second while your standing their cooking, ive poped out and are already shooting, it takes less then 2 seconds to kill anyone who isnt brick tanked... and yuve just lost half that putting your granade away/ throwing it.
even if you get the hive or my shields... i have more hives and your still biomass...
its a shoot first or die environment where EHP and ARs win |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
812
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 10:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
I challenge that theory - and I won't even use an Assault Rifle to prove it.
not a theory... ive spent nearly 2 days doing it... this felt more like cheating then the good ole invisable shotgunner wars were infamous for. (most peopel dont know how to stop cooking the granade though, they just kind of fall over and die....) the point is that for that slip second while your standing their cooking, ive poped out and are already shooting, it takes less then 2 seconds to kill anyone who isnt brick tanked... and yuve just lost half that putting your granade away/ throwing it. Words are just that. It's a tried and true method used in PC frequently. We can sit here babbling on all night because you think it doesn't work and I am certain that it does - so maybe one day I'll catch you in a public match and show you.
it DID work.
but it takes too long to flux and shoot the MD 3 times for the kill now
more time then the AR can chew through you.
assuming the Ar guy doesnt just pull range on you or use a hill to obscure the MD rounds.
i USE the mass driver, its 1 of my favorite and primary weapons. its not so easy to fight me with it when i know how the thing works. i WILL use the terrain to prevent your shots. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
812
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 10:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
I challenge that theory - and I won't even use an Assault Rifle to prove it.
not a theory... ive spent nearly 2 days doing it... this felt more like cheating then the good ole invisable shotgunner wars were infamous for. (most peopel dont know how to stop cooking the granade though, they just kind of fall over and die....) the point is that for that slip second while your standing their cooking, ive poped out and are already shooting, it takes less then 2 seconds to kill anyone who isnt brick tanked... and yuve just lost half that putting your granade away/ throwing it. Words are just that. It's a tried and true method used in PC frequently. We can sit here babbling on all night because you think it doesn't work and I am certain that it does - so maybe one day I'll catch you in a public match and show you. it DID work. but it takes too long to flux and shoot the MD 3 times for the kill now more time then the AR can chew through you. assuming the Ar guy doesnt just pull range on you or use a hill to obscure the MD rounds. i USE the mass driver, its 1 of my favorite and primary weapons. its not so easy to fight me with it when i know how the thing works. i WILL use the terrain to prevent your shots. Plenty of other options.
everyone who tryed it today failed, because i was doing damage long before they were doing damage on me. a couple of times i ate a flux and it diddnt matter, i lost a hive or two occasionally but it diddnt matter... maybe they wernt that good...
unfortuantly i wasnt able to accduratly test agfainst good players... all the good players were brick tanking on rep hives with ARs |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
812
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 10:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:
everyone who tryed it today failed, because i was doing damage long before they were doing damage on me. a couple of times i ate a flux and it diddnt matter, i lost a hive or two occasionally but it diddnt matter... maybe they wernt that good...
unfortuantly i wasnt able to accduratly test agfainst good players... all the good players were brick tanking on rep hives with ARs
Yeah, you're just god's gift to shooters man. Nothing can beat you with all dem words and speculation.
have you met me?
im TERRIBLE
thats why its a problem
IM NOT EVEN GOOD and they couldnt stop me |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
812
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 10:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
As stated before in another thread - I deal in facts and numbers, not word of mouth and speculation. Someone said the Scrambler Rifle has more recoil so I went out of my way to show the difference between the two and wouldn't you know it, now that I have, everyone is tying the SRs into the mix and wanting them nerfed as well.
This is RAMBUNCTIOUS. The reason those people suck is because they don't know how to use their weapon effectively and I can almost guarantee that they weren't using it in a squad-based environment which is probably what it was intended for (which basically classifies ANY specialization weapon).
You can't run up on someone with a mass driver and expect to get results. You attack from afar and have the benefit of other team mates shooting at them.
You can't gun down someone with a Laser Rifle and not expect to be vulnerable when you're aiming down the sights or engaging at close range.
These weapons WERE NOT DESIGNED for people to run up and die at 30 meters and then whine and ***** about the assault rifle doing it's job - they're uninformed players who's sole instinct is that if it killed them (the entire point of this game might I add) then it MUST be over-powered because there is no possible way that they did something wrong.
Too many people grew up with World of Warcraft and got a reward everytime they did something. Your average gamer foams at the mouth when you mention "patience" or god for ****ing bid "think". What in the bloody hell did you expect to happen if they just died when they attacked AN ASSAULT RIFLE head on????????
the problem is there istn any room for any specialised wepaons (mass driver possably being the exception with its ability to drive people out of cover)
in any situation where you are building a squad your better off bringing in 6 assault rifles then any other configuration, for any job, the assault rifle does it better.
we dont NEED other weapons for anything, their purpose is served by the assault rifle.
ive seen over 9000 heavys runnign around with assault rifles now.... its getting out of hand that if you bring in another weapon your hurting your team.
keep in mind, im not an AR user. i blow people up with explosives. so for me to swap to something im unfamiliar with and instantly enter DUST514 godmode was rather startleing |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
812
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 11:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
I can't wait to see your corp go up against Red Star or Molon Labe, I really can't.
my corp has 3 active members.... your not seeing that anytime soon. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
812
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 11:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
I can't wait to see your corp go up against Red Star or Molon Labe, I really can't.
my corp has 3 active members.... your not seeing that anytime soon. Ah, well, maybe one day you'll see how awful it is to be assaulted by Mass Drivers and Forge Guns throughout the entire game.
forge gun on a power point is uncounterable and a different class different leuge all together.
mass drivers are my love... and skilled MD users will scare the crap out of most people when they show up in large numbers.
these are just simple truths. ( i <3 the breach MD)
maybe its a learning curve thing, maybe the AR is so dominating becuase new players can grab it and dominate with it, but specialised weapons require specialised tactics.
maybe thats why the AR was so damn deadly in my hands yesterday, it felt dirty... it felt like i wasnt even giving thema chance to dive into cover.
maybe it just signals the end of the old metagame and the birth of a very very cover intensive metagame where you arnt leaving cover unless you have a real plan on where your next piece of cover is.
this would actually be great, we woud finally see the battle lines drawn and a no-mans land of death start to form.
hell maybe this isnt even a bad thing at all.
i suppose that i should probably just wait and see and do what i do best instead of worrying about what others do |
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Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
813
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Posted - 2013.09.13 11:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Alternatively you could just use a weapon that requires more skill to use.. Not like it's shameful or anything.
the people who get blown up by my REs and send me hatemail seem to think its shameful :P |
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