DUST Search - can heavies get better resistence damage

Master Jaraiya wrote:

Aleksander Black wrote:

I don't like the idea of adding damage resistance to dropsuits. Vehicles, fine, but going with damage resistance for infantry is over complicating it. Why not say straight up that you want more EHP? You could have that in a number of ways, the easier to implement without affecting the rest of the game would be adding it to the suit's original HP pool.

But then again, is it really the lack of HP that is bothering you? Couldn't it be, let's say, the lack of other Heavy Weapons, the lack of other Heavy Suits, the lack of teamplay (makes bigger difference for heavy suits), the overall reduced TTK since 1.5 because of hit detection/aim assist, or a combination of all these things?

Because the hit pool is already so huge that adding some random reasonable number wouldn't really change all that much, would it?

You left out the fact that the Amarr Heavy has been around for so long, that everyone already knows exactly how to counter it.

Unless we fit damage mods and armor plates, we are working against our suit instead of buffing it's inherent strengths. You can't shield tank the Amarr Heavy because there aren't enough Highs. You cant speed tank an Amarr Heavy because our base movement speed and stamina is too slow. You can't really benefit from stealth mods because our base profile is super high.

Basically, anything other than damage Mods, and Plates/Repair that a Heavy tries to fit work against the suit.

Heavies need more variety in a very bad way.

If we are not going to be getting more suits soon, I wouldn't mind seeing something like this.


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Aleksander Black Immortal Retribution 102	Posted - 2013.09.10 01:11:00 - [1] - Quote I don't like the idea of adding damage resistance to dropsuits. Vehicles, fine, but going with damage resistance for infantry is over complicating it. Why not say straight up that you want more EHP? You could have that in a number of ways, the easier to implement without affecting the rest of the game would be adding it to the suit's original HP pool. But then again, is it really the lack of HP that is bothering you? Couldn't it be, let's say, the lack of other Heavy Weapons, the lack of other Heavy Suits, the lack of teamplay (makes bigger difference for heavy suits), the overall reduced TTK since 1.5 because of hit detection/aim assist, or a combination of all these things? Because the hit pool is already so huge that adding some random reasonable number wouldn't really change all that much, would it?
Aleksander Black Immortal Retribution 108	Posted - 2013.09.10 09:33:00 - [2] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Aleksander Black wrote: I don't like the idea of adding damage resistance to dropsuits. Vehicles, fine, but going with damage resistance for infantry is over complicating it. Why not say straight up that you want more EHP? You could have that in a number of ways, the easier to implement without affecting the rest of the game would be adding it to the suit's original HP pool. But then again, is it really the lack of HP that is bothering you? Couldn't it be, let's say, the lack of other Heavy Weapons, the lack of other Heavy Suits, the lack of teamplay (makes bigger difference for heavy suits), the overall reduced TTK since 1.5 because of hit detection/aim assist, or a combination of all these things? Because the hit pool is already so huge that adding some random reasonable number wouldn't really change all that much, would it? You left out the fact that the Amarr Heavy has been around for so long, that everyone already knows exactly how to counter it. Unless we fit damage mods and armor plates, we are working against our suit instead of buffing it's inherent strengths. You can't shield tank the Amarr Heavy because there aren't enough Highs. You cant speed tank an Amarr Heavy because our base movement speed and stamina is too slow. You can't really benefit from stealth mods because our base profile is super high. Basically, anything other than damage Mods, and Plates/Repair that a Heavy tries to fit work against the suit. Heavies need more variety in a very bad way. If we are not going to be getting more suits soon, I wouldn't mind seeing something like this. I didn't miss it. Actually, that is exactly what I meant in the highlighted part. As for armor resistance increasing the effectiveness of armor repairers, that is true. Albeit that, I still think it will overcomplicate a game that is already too complicated imo. Also, since we don't have the equivalent of shield repairers (transporters, was it?), adding armor resistance for this reason would do nothing for shield based heavies, even if they were to get shield resistance too. I keep my opinion that keeping it simple is the best way. You want repairers to work better in your heavies? I still think it's a better approach to switch the operation bonus of the Sentinel from "reduce overheat damage by x%/lvl" to "increase the effectiveness of remote armor repairers used in it by x%/lvl". Simple, neat, maybe even overpowered when you combo it with proto repairers and the Amarr logi bonus in a Rooks and Kings fashion, but I can like that. I can't like damage resistance to infantry. Plus, modules for specific damage types reduction? Like, explosive hardeners? In infantry? We really don't have that many slots to spare, this would end up in leaving huge gaps in the suits. DUST suits usually have less slots than you average EVE ship, remember that. The 8 slots you find in a proto suit is about what you can find in a cruiser, there are way bigger slot layouts over there wich allow you to explore point defenses in your profile, I don't think this idea would carry well to dropsuits though.
Aleksander Black Immortal Retribution 108	Posted - 2013.09.10 20:45:00 - [3] - Quote Fair enough, Talos. I'd still rather avoid applying damage reduction to infantry as I believe you could achieve the same effect in other more interesting ways without having to recur to it, but I see your point. But instead, we could take your suggestions and turn them into modules, for example: "The Adaptive Plating". It gives a little less armor than regular plates but offer a bonus to remote repair modules being used in you. It creates a linear progression of the desired effect without having to risk getting things out of control with damage resistance. Damage resistance is very strong when stacked enough and there is no reason to not stack it, really. At 50% resistance your EHP doubles. This sort of change can be game breaking and won't give more options, instead will just be made the new rule and replace the old one, but with non-linear progression and being way harder to balance around. I repeat, the effects you desire could be achieved with other means, like suggested. I believe that in the end what you think is that Heavies are under powered and melt too fast, and I can agree that with you, for a number of reasons, but I still don't think resistance is the solution. Just say outright you want more one thousand or two of ehp, which is what you aim to get with resistance, or a bonus to remote repairs, which you said you wanted to further differentiate armor from shields, I could like that. I just think that hiding these buffs behind damage resistance is a bit problematic because adding a new mechanic will create problems in balancing, will inevitably streamline fitting and will be harder to detect by the other players.
Aleksander Black Immortal Retribution 108	Posted - 2013.09.10 22:41:00 - [4] - Quote If damage reduction were to be added to infantry the one way I consider the most viable is this, Dexter307. But again, 3% resistance per level means 15% resistance at lvl 5, which nets a total of + 117.6 EHP (or +17.6% efficacy to remote reps). Why not just make it a 3% (or 3.5 to be closer of the 17.6%) bonus to hp/remote repair efficacy then? If the resistance can't be further stacked that would seem better and reveal the results for what they truly are. However, if the resistance can be further stacked we can have the problem of godmode heavies real easy. Low resistances don't deviate too much from normal bonuses, but as you go further up the difference becames too big. At 50% resistance your ehp doubles. At 75% its x4. That's one of the reasons I'm against implementing this mechanic for infantry, especially considering that there are better options.