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P14GU3
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
385
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 20:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't use it, and I've noticed an incredible TTK boost. I used it last night just to see what all the fuss was about. So in the ~4 hours I played, I noticed the hipfire assist is a bit strong, but not enough to entice this kind of rage. ADS it does practically nothing.
I say turn it off CCP, just for a week, so that the ones complaining can see that the hit detection is the reason for decreased TTK and not AA. |
N1ck Comeau
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
1367
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 20:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
People are just mad that you can't strafe like a little ***** anymore. |
First Prophet
Unkn0wn Killers
997
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 20:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's actually super noticable when you ADS. I used to never ADS with my SMG, 'cause it was hard. But now I always do. |
BLUE WAFFLE TASTY
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 20:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
strafing is a huge part of assault, so assault got a major nerf, and the aim assist , whatever you wanna call it, is geared for new players....y r we catering to new boots when weve been thru all the bs, dealt with all the changes, and in the end to please the call of duty hordes in the hopes of making them stay, weve made the game easier for them. matchmaking is sooooo cod, aim assist...jumping like grasshoppers, etc. u should impose a timer for ALL PLAYERS IN ALL REDZONES to avoid redzone snipers and tank sniping. get ur a$$ in the game. red should only be for spawning and vehicle call ins...otherwise STAYOUT. with recent nerfs to lavs, bring back unlimited, who cares...its a large portion of swarmers diets, or refund all my sp n proto swarms, and lavs.....seeing as they r both almost useless now. i hate to see this game get any worse or more cod like, theres a reason i play this NOT COD......just food for thought |
P14GU3
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
387
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
First Prophet wrote:It's actually super noticable when you ADS. I used to never ADS with my SMG, 'cause it was hard. But now I always do. Logi, no sidearm..
I've only used it with the ScAR and that thing is sh!t when ADS, bounces around like crazy with AA on. I had to turn it back off after awhile. I understand the feeling of 'catering to noobs' but I still destroy noobs w/ or w/o AA. If your mad about not being able to superstafe and 5 noobs anymore, well, I've been playing gallente for awhile now and could never do that anyways. Not sure what strafing changes they made, so I wont comment on that.
My point is, if you really had any gungame, not just MLG (keyboard) starfe techniques, you'll be fine, if not, just use AA! |
GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
65
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
oh look what have we here another southern legion bitching on the forum's seriously GTFO troll ! |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:I don't use it, and I've noticed an incredible TTK boost. I used it last night just to see what all the fuss was about. So in the ~4 hours I played, I noticed the hipfire assist is a bit strong, but not enough to entice this kind of rage. ADS it does practically nothing.
I say turn it off CCP, just for a week, so that the ones complaining can see that the hit detection is the reason for decreased TTK and not AA. I think a lot of people are upset about the aim assist because the increase in use of hip fire which I totally understand. To be honest I love 1.4 in every way, I think its a great addition to Dust and has brought back a lot of players. But I see there are issue regarding aim assist in the community when I truly don't think its the aim assist being the problem. First I want to address every shooter out there has had aim assist in some form or another especially console games. Whether its adhesion, friction, etc. and aim assist in Dust 514 is not really the issue i find most players are troubled by. I feel it is the problem with Dispersion and recoil in this game.
So Dispersion in Dust 514 is apparent, but should be even more so; considering there is a skill to sharpen this mechanic in the game. This Skill Sharpshooter and certain operation skills (ex. assault rifles reducing kickback) the spray of the weapon is nearly as accurate as aiming down the sights making them very effective. So we should be seeing larger dispersion in hipfire (and perhaps aiming down the sights too) and the skill sharpshooter which helps tighten that hip fire have less impact (or just increase dispersion in general which making skilling into sharpshooter more viable) so people who wish to hipfire have to actually invest into this particular skill no different from any other weapon or skill points in the game.
Recoil in this game is virtually non-existent and it is only masked by the dispersion of some automatic weapons (HMG). You will notice very few automatic weapon have low recoil but high dispersion (or at least higher than other weapons) a great example would be our HMG and SMG(which has recoil but not nearly enough for the rate of fire) which does not recoil at all. But despite having no recoil its dispersion is quite large, yet some might figure with a weapon that is a sort of replica of LMG in modern day weapons there would be higher recoil. Now this example goes hand and hand with Assault rifles and SMG; every automatic in the game. The only weapons that seem to have some sense of recoil is semi automatics.
So in conclusion, aim assist really is not the issue I see being apart of the core shooting mechanic in the game. Everyone has played with aim assist and probably didn't even know it. The only reason its apparent now is because we had adjust without aim assist for so long that now we see how aim assist helps with precision and comfortable shooting. I think players who are upset about aim assist should be more focused on giving feedback on Dispersion and Recoil in the game if anything. Look at game like battlefield which survivability is so much lower compared this game but hipfire from 50 meters is pointless compared to aiming down the sights. Yet in Dust which Survivability is higher considering we can taking more of a beating; dispersion and recoil which is not even noticeable is what I think everyone truly feels is overlooked. |
P14GU3
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
387
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Minor Treat wrote:P14GU3 wrote:I don't use it, and I've noticed an incredible TTK boost. I used it last night just to see what all the fuss was about. So in the ~4 hours I played, I noticed the hipfire assist is a bit strong, but not enough to entice this kind of rage. ADS it does practically nothing.
I say turn it off CCP, just for a week, so that the ones complaining can see that the hit detection is the reason for decreased TTK and not AA. I think a lot of people are upset about the aim assist because the increase in use of hip fire which I totally understand. To be honest I love 1.4 in every way, I think its a great addition to Dust and has brought back a lot of players. But I see there are issue regarding aim assist in the community when I truly don't think its the aim assist being the problem. First I want to address every shooter out there has had aim assist in some form or another especially console games. Whether its adhesion, friction, etc. and aim assist in Dust 514 is not really the issue i find most players are troubled by. I feel it is the problem with Dispersion and recoil in this game. So Dispersion in Dust 514 is apparent, but should be even more so; considering there is a skill to sharpen this mechanic in the game. This Skill Sharpshooter and certain operation skills (ex. assault rifles reducing kickback) the spray of the weapon is nearly as accurate as aiming down the sights making them very effective. So we should be seeing larger dispersion in hipfire (and perhaps aiming down the sights too) and the skill sharpshooter which helps tighten that hip fire have less impact (or just increase dispersion in general which making skilling into sharpshooter more viable) so people who wish to hipfire have to actually invest into this particular skill no different from any other weapon or skill points in the game. Recoil in this game is virtually non-existent and it is only masked by the dispersion of some automatic weapons (HMG). You will notice very few automatic weapon have low recoil but high dispersion (or at least higher than other weapons) a great example would be our HMG and SMG(which has recoil but not nearly enough for the rate of fire) which does not recoil at all. But despite having no recoil its dispersion is quite large, yet some might figure with a weapon that is a sort of replica of LMG in modern day weapons there would be higher recoil. Now this example goes hand and hand with Assault rifles and SMG; every automatic in the game. The only weapons that seem to have some sense of recoil is semi automatics. So in conclusion, aim assist really is not the issue I see being apart of the core shooting mechanic in the game. Everyone has played with aim assist and probably didn't even know it. The only reason its apparent now is because we had adjust without aim assist for so long that now we see how aim assist helps with precision and comfortable shooting. I think players who are upset about aim assist should be more focused on giving feedback on Dispersion and Recoil in the game if anything. Look at game like battlefield which survivability is so much lower compared this game but hipfire from 50 meters is pointless compared to aiming down the sights. Yet in Dust which Survivability is higher considering we can taking more of a beating; dispersion and recoil which is not even noticeable is what I think everyone truly feels is overlooked.
People hipfire from 50m? I don't even..
But I think you have point. I think thete are a lot of issues compiled on top of AA that people just want to use AA as an excuse. Some of us have been saying ARs beed more kick/dispersion for months, but the AR crowd wont openly ask for a nerf on their own weapon...
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P14GU3
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
387
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR wrote:oh look what have we here another southern legion bitching on the forum's seriously GTFO troll ! Did you even read the thread or are you just another darkstar scrub spewing nonsense. Mad you had to get out of your LAV and use a gun? |
Taeryn Frost
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:People are just mad that you can't strafe like a little ***** anymore.
I miss the old dances of death. Getting close, staring into each other's visors under the moonlit night. I remember it like it was yesterday. Oh how the sparks would fly. Though someone would always get their heart broken.
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First Prophet
Unkn0wn Killers
998
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:First Prophet wrote:It's actually super noticable when you ADS. I used to never ADS with my SMG, 'cause it was hard. But now I always do. Logi, no sidearm.. I've only used it with the ScAR and that thing is sh!t when ADS, bounces around like crazy with AA on. I had to turn it back off after awhile. I understand the feeling of 'catering to noobs' but I still destroy noobs w/ or w/o AA. If your mad about not being able to superstafe and 5 noobs anymore, well, I've been playing gallente for awhile now and could never do that anyways. Not sure what strafing changes they made, so I wont comment on that. My point is, if you really had any gungame, not just MLG (keyboard) starfe techniques, you'll be fine, if not, just use AA! I don't use the scramblers, but ADS with AA on with an SMG or gallente AR is pretty easy. I'm not mad about anything. I will say though that game the game went through a major slide from being a tracking shooter to a twitch one. Which was really jarring at first. And while there isn't really anything wrong with either type of game, the maps will need redesigning if CCP does intend this to be more twitch, and the guns will need rebalancing, along with the suits. They nerfed strafe speeds a bit. |
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
235
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
The decreased TTK is from improved hit detection not AA. That's why a militia rifle can chew through a proto suit like tissue paper, every bullet counts. |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
68
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
I second the notion to remove AA for a week. More I've played, the more I'm leaning towards the revised hit box being the biggest change. Let CCP take the week to analyze the results and determine if AA needs to go or if adjustments need to be made to how accurate the high ROF weapons are. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
871
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:I don't use it, and I've noticed an incredible TTK boost. I used it last night just to see what all the fuss was about. So in the ~4 hours I played, I noticed the hipfire assist is a bit strong, but not enough to entice this kind of rage. ADS it does practically nothing.
I say turn it off CCP, just for a week, so that the ones complaining can see that the hit detection is the reason for decreased TTK and not AA. This is a great suggestion. It is the rhetorical equivalent of a 100 Megatonne Tactical anti-booolshit Nuke.
How can a tactical nuke be 100 Megatonnes? Well, theresalotta bs on these forums. Plus you have to flash-boil all those tears.
Do it CCP. |
P14GU3
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
392
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 00:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
LoL @ Vrain |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
343
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 00:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:People are just mad that you can't strafe like a little ***** anymore.
I prefer the term texas 2 step, stops people getting confused with real strafing, which by the way works!! We should revert to old hit detection, but tell them we removed aim assist!! |
Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
18
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 09:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:The decreased TTK is from improved hit detection not AA. That's why a militia rifle can chew through a proto suit like tissue paper, every bullet counts.
I have marked what i think is the real reason a lot of vets are pissed off, regardless of it being a consequence of AA, hit detection, strafe speed, match making etc. And I can understand them, even if I personally don't use prototype stuff.
It has upset the risk / reward scheme, and neglected the time and effort they put into the game. Prototype equipment is very expensive, and if it does not give an big edge over militia, what is the point?
What would you feel if you have 17M skill points, and have level 5 in weapon / suite skill X, Y and Z, but you can't really use the fancy stuff if you don't want to hemorrhoid ISK every game?
I think the game needs to cater for both new and old players.
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Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
1333
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 09:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
What i notice is that the aim-assist is working as a bullet magnet. Is negating the effects of skills like bullet dispersion ( Sharp Shooter ), which means that you can use a Militia Rifle ( For example ) and use it as effectively as someone that have fulled skilled to bullet dispersion skills. In other words ;
If you skilled into Sharp Shooter skills, you just wasted a lot of SP. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5091
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 09:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:The decreased TTK is from improved hit detection not AA. That's why a militia rifle can chew through a proto suit like tissue paper, every bullet counts. Aim assist, hit box sizes, the 10% damage increase on weapons to compensate for aiming and hit detection problems since 1.0, strafing being nerfed, the AR having no kick whatsoever.... There's a pretty long list of reasons why TTK is an absolute joke and the majority of them stem from hot fixes that were used as temporary solutions. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
156
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:The decreased TTK is from improved hit detection not AA. That's why a militia rifle can chew through a proto suit like tissue paper, every bullet counts. Aim assist, hit box sizes, the 10% damage increase on weapons to compensate for aiming and hit detection problems since 1.0, strafing being nerfed, the AR having no kick whatsoever.... There's a pretty long list of reasons why TTK is an absolute joke and the majority of them stem from hot fixes that were used as temporary solutions.
Yes I agree is not the AA alone what we get now is the combination of old balance changes (that were fine till 1.4) and a lot of changes to the core system with 1.4.
If the game stays as it is CCP has to rebalance mostly everything from skills to weapons, maps and dropsuits. Until then we will have a total devaluation of skills and higher tier gears. As a sideeffect ISK income will also shrink when everyone is using std or militia gear.
The changes that came with 1.4 completly screw the balance we had without rebalancing to the new core mechanic. These changes had a very big impact and I am not sure that CCP has forseen all of them... |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
5091
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Cosgar wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:The decreased TTK is from improved hit detection not AA. That's why a militia rifle can chew through a proto suit like tissue paper, every bullet counts. Aim assist, hit box sizes, the 10% damage increase on weapons to compensate for aiming and hit detection problems since 1.0, strafing being nerfed, the AR having no kick whatsoever.... There's a pretty long list of reasons why TTK is an absolute joke and the majority of them stem from hot fixes that were used as temporary solutions. Yes I agree is not the AA alone what we get now is the combination of old balance changes (that were fine till 1.4) and a lot of changes to the core system with 1.4. If the game stays as it is CCP has to rebalance mostly everything from skills to weapons, maps and dropsuits. Until then we will have a total devaluation of skills and higher tier gears. As a sideeffect ISK income will also shrink when everyone is using std or militia gear. The changes that came with 1.4 completly screw the balance we had without rebalancing to the new core mechanic. These changes had a very big impact and I am not sure that CCP has forseen all of them... Just like they foresaw how OP the CaLogi was after players warned them repeatedly, before Uprising? |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
156
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cosgar wrote: Just like they foresaw how OP the CaLogi was after players warned them repeatedly, before Uprising?
Ok you have a point here, there were some things where the community right of said they won't work well and CCP didn't listen.
But I guess the consequences rising from the 1.4 changes could be a bit more tricky as the changes triggered some kind of chain reaction in the way they worked together leaving us with the mess we have right now. But maybe I am wrong and this is the game CCP wants it to be (also I doubt that). |
Omareth Nasadra
QcGOLD
45
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:Minor Treat wrote:P14GU3 wrote:I don't use it, and I've noticed an incredible TTK boost. I used it last night just to see what all the fuss was about. So in the ~4 hours I played, I noticed the hipfire assist is a bit strong, but not enough to entice this kind of rage. ADS it does practically nothing.
I say turn it off CCP, just for a week, so that the ones complaining can see that the hit detection is the reason for decreased TTK and not AA. I think a lot of people are upset about the aim assist because the increase in use of hip fire which I totally understand. To be honest I love 1.4 in every way, I think its a great addition to Dust and has brought back a lot of players. But I see there are issue regarding aim assist in the community when I truly don't think its the aim assist being the problem. First I want to address every shooter out there has had aim assist in some form or another especially console games. Whether its adhesion, friction, etc. and aim assist in Dust 514 is not really the issue i find most players are troubled by. I feel it is the problem with Dispersion and recoil in this game. So Dispersion in Dust 514 is apparent, but should be even more so; considering there is a skill to sharpen this mechanic in the game. This Skill Sharpshooter and certain operation skills (ex. assault rifles reducing kickback) the spray of the weapon is nearly as accurate as aiming down the sights making them very effective. So we should be seeing larger dispersion in hipfire (and perhaps aiming down the sights too) and the skill sharpshooter which helps tighten that hip fire have less impact (or just increase dispersion in general which making skilling into sharpshooter more viable) so people who wish to hipfire have to actually invest into this particular skill no different from any other weapon or skill points in the game. Recoil in this game is virtually non-existent and it is only masked by the dispersion of some automatic weapons (HMG). You will notice very few automatic weapon have low recoil but high dispersion (or at least higher than other weapons) a great example would be our HMG and SMG(which has recoil but not nearly enough for the rate of fire) which does not recoil at all. But despite having no recoil its dispersion is quite large, yet some might figure with a weapon that is a sort of replica of LMG in modern day weapons there would be higher recoil. Now this example goes hand and hand with Assault rifles and SMG; every automatic in the game. The only weapons that seem to have some sense of recoil is semi automatics. So in conclusion, aim assist really is not the issue I see being apart of the core shooting mechanic in the game. Everyone has played with aim assist and probably didn't even know it. The only reason its apparent now is because we had adjust without aim assist for so long that now we see how aim assist helps with precision and comfortable shooting. I think players who are upset about aim assist should be more focused on giving feedback on Dispersion and Recoil in the game if anything. Look at game like battlefield which survivability is so much lower compared this game but hipfire from 50 meters is pointless compared to aiming down the sights. Yet in Dust which Survivability is higher considering we can taking more of a beating; dispersion and recoil which is not even noticeable is what I think everyone truly feels is overlooked. People hipfire from 50m? I don't even.. But I think you have point. I think thete are a lot of issues compiled on top of AA that people just want to use AA as an excuse. Some of us have been saying ARs beed more kick/dispersion for months, but the AR crowd wont openly ask for a nerf on their own weapon... dude i've tried hip fire from 50m with my 600k sp alt SR versus ADS all night and find out that ADS may be more accurate, but not really worth the trouble, i just shoot in the general direction and things keep dying, those shots should not have hit but they do, personnally i prefer ads for headshot, but hipfire is so strong now |
P14GU3
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
407
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 23:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
I would have to agree the hipfire is a bit too strong, but I rarely use hipfire. Gimme them hadshots!
I do like the discussion going in this thread. We are seeing a lot more factors coming into play besides hit detection an AA. CCP definitely has some more work to do |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5111
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 23:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Cosgar wrote: Just like they foresaw how OP the CaLogi was after players warned them repeatedly, before Uprising?
Ok you have a point here, there were some things where the community right of said they won't work well and CCP didn't listen. But I guess the consequences rising from the 1.4 changes could be a bit more tricky as the changes triggered some kind of chain reaction in the way they worked together leaving us with the mess we have right now. But maybe I am wrong and this is the game CCP wants it to be (also I doubt that). Judging by how things have been drastically changing for the past few months, I'm wondering if CCP even knows what direction this game is supposed to be going. We're still arguing over things that should have been long since resolved in beta. We should be discussing new content and re-balancing new weaponry, suits, modules, equipment and vehicles. Instead it's the same core gameplay issues every update, just like the last. |
P14GU3
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
407
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 00:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Cosgar wrote: Just like they foresaw how OP the CaLogi was after players warned them repeatedly, before Uprising?
Ok you have a point here, there were some things where the community right of said they won't work well and CCP didn't listen. But I guess the consequences rising from the 1.4 changes could be a bit more tricky as the changes triggered some kind of chain reaction in the way they worked together leaving us with the mess we have right now. But maybe I am wrong and this is the game CCP wants it to be (also I doubt that). Judging by how things have been drastically changing for the past few months, I'm wondering if CCP even knows what direction this game is supposed to be going. We're still arguing over things that should have been long since resolved in beta. We should be discussing new content and re-balancing new weaponry, suits, modules, equipment and vehicles. Instead it's the same core gameplay issues every update, just like the last. I got a survey email from CCP, and as I was completing it, I was thinking the exact same thing. Are they sticking to their original "plan" or are they going to start catering to the twitch-CoD crowd. I guess we will have to wait and see. I can tell you though, I wont be spending any more money on this game until they figure it out. |
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