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Slen Kaleth BlackWater Liquidations 31	Posted - 2013.09.09 18:21:00 - [1] - Quote I was wondering what Scotty uses to match players? A thought I had was to add a rolling KDR. Reason being is that once you have played for a long time it becomes increasingly hard to effectively raise your KDR as you make it into the thousands and ten's of thousands. So adding a rolling KDR can accurately capture where you are sitting at the moment. Something like a month time frame can be used. Of course there is the possibility that someone can purposely obtain low KDR in a bunch of matches to artificial hid their real skill. To counter this thresholds can be made that once you reach them you can not go back down for match makings purposes, or maybe only if it is consistent for say 2 months or more. Another concern would be for Logis or other support classes who do not get high KDR, but high WPs, so I suggest also adding a rolling WDR (WP/death ratio) for them and have the system use both for match making, or maybe use the best of the 2. Any thoughts? CCP is this something you already have in mind, or might consider?
Pandora Mars Afterlife Overseers 312	Posted - 2013.09.09 19:42:00 - [2] - Quote I don't really like the idea of KDR as a matchmaking variable in general, but especially for this game... There are several reasons, but most of them can be summarized as "KDR is not a concrete skill meter". Just think of a sniper going 10-0 in a Skirmish match, he's basically useless. Or, even worst, think at a poor HAV pilot struggling in a terrible match full of proto AV, he loses 3 tanks (millions of ISK) just to go... let's say 13-3. Which might be a decent score for an assaulter, but it's bad for the tanker and catastrophic for his wallet... still it's definitely a positive K/D for the game to count... KDR can give a very generic idea of the player's potential, but this game more than any other should NOT count it too much when it comes to matchmaking. Also, gear used affects the K/D at the end of the match... And there's more, but this gives an idea...
Slen Kaleth BlackWater Liquidations 31	Posted - 2013.09.09 20:16:00 - [3] - Quote Pandora Mars wrote: I don't really like the idea of KDR as a matchmaking variable in general, but especially for this game... There are several reasons, but most of them can be summarized as "KDR is not a concrete skill meter". Just think of a sniper going 10-0 in a Skirmish match, he's basically useless. Or, even worst, think at a poor HAV pilot struggling in a terrible match full of proto AV, he loses 3 tanks (millions of ISK) just to go... let's say 13-3. Which might be a decent score for an assaulter, but it's bad for the tanker and catastrophic for his wallet... still it's definitely a positive K/D for the game to count... KDR can give a very generic idea of the player's potential, but this game more than any other should NOT count it too much when it comes to matchmaking. Also, gear used affects the K/D at the end of the match... And there's more, but this gives an idea... Those are good points. Perhaps something along the lines of a mix of KDR, WDR (or instead of WDR, a WGR, WP per game ratio), and some sort of ISK efficiency stat, say a ratio of the amount of ISK earned vs amount lost per match. Factor all three together in some formula. If not these, what do you think would make a good metric for determining skill for match making? I understand there isn't any fool proof method, but I am curious what you think.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 720	Posted - 2013.09.09 22:16:00 - [4] - Quote I think CCP's matchmaking is utilizing serious voodoo
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 325	Posted - 2013.09.09 22:27:00 - [5] - Quote i think a gear restriction would be more effective..
Pandora Mars Afterlife Overseers 315	Posted - 2013.09.09 23:40:00 - [6] - Quote Slen Kaleth wrote: Those are good points. Perhaps something along the lines of a mix of KDR, WDR (or instead of WDR, a WGR, WP per game ratio), and some sort of ISK efficiency stat, say a ratio of the amount of ISK earned vs amount lost per match. Factor all three together in some formula. If not these, what do you think would make a good metric for determining skill for match making? I understand there isn't any fool proof method, but I am curious what you think. You're right. It's very difficult to imagine an ideal matchmaking... Maybe, as yourself say, we might consider a mix of all those numeric variables (I was tempted to say total SP and WP as well, but since it's full of alt-characters out there, it's kinda pointless). There are two of your suggestions that I like particularly: The first one would be to confront how many ISK you lost and destroyed in the last match (there's no need to make it a visible statistic, just let the game count it), so that if you spent a lot of ISK just to bring down a couple of STD suits, the game can tell your performance was not brilliant, even with a positive KDR... I think this is a better meter of battle efficiency... The second one is to focus on the previous matches to match people correctly, counting KDR, ISK lost and destroyed, WP gained and, also quite important, if you won or lost. I like your idea of a dynamic matchmaking, so that as long as you're doing very good, you fight decent opponents... and when you have a bad match (low WP, few kills, etc), the server says "ok, maybe this poor guy needs a break" and it finds an easier game for you. This way people is not forced to fight protobears all the time (which is stressing even for a very good player) and newbies that do particularly good start to face some better opponent gradually. This way the game actually follows your progress... i guess. Last but not least, whenever Scotty picks a large squad, another one should be put in the opposing team. This would be a great balance that also helps all the random solo players in the team, since they can benefit (if they are willing to work as a team) of the cooperation and organization of that squad. This should incentivate collaboration from those random players. Sometimes one of the two teams is simply superior and the other one gets redlined, but more often those matches are full of action and quite enjoyable (even if tough, of course). And even though the match is not balanced, the losing team will get an easier match next. This is really an articulated discussion and I feel like there's still much to do to improve the matchmaking.
Pandora Mars Afterlife Overseers 316	Posted - 2013.09.10 00:23:00 - [7] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: i think a gear restriction would be more effective.. Gear based matchmaking has its downsides as well... unfortunately: 1. There's absolutely no reason to choose a PRO-tier match, no matter how many SP you got, since it's gonna be extremely expensive and you're going to find ONLY experienced players (5+ millions SP the very least for Proto, I believe) 2. Veterans can count on the massive passive skill bonuses, such as +15% damage, +25% shields and armor, +5-15% modules effectiveness, etc... and, unlike newer players, they can get the 100% out of their relatively cheap dropsuits, by having a great choice of modules and upgrades and maxed-out PG and CPU. This means that I can wear an ADV suit (just one example) with Enhanced shield extenders, armor plates and repairer (+skill bonuses), a Gek with proficiency Lv5, an Assault M209 SMG with proficiency 5, M1 grenades and ADV hives... I get 223 shields and 504 armor out of a Gallente G/1, which is more than "scary" (better than an average prototype suit). Just imagine this dream suit (people with 11+ millions SP can get this, based on DUST SP skill planner) against an ordinary ADV suit... I made this example with a G/1, but just imagine beast players going against rookies with STD suits... that's possibly even more unfair than how DUST is already. At least now protobears will run into enemy protobears and they can do nothing to avoid this. When it comes to those players who are not exactly new, but not veterans neither, at least they can spawn in a high-tier suit to partially compensate that skill gap (both actual skill and SP) between them and a more experienced player. By introducing a gear based matchmaking, you actually remove this chance. 3. The player pool is too small and cannot be split even more.


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