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Issue dispersion and recoil vs Aim assist

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Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 107	Posted - 2013.09.09 14:21:00 - [1] - Quote I think a lot of people are upset about the aim assist because the increase in use of hip fire which I totally understand. To be honest I love 1.4 in every way, I think its a great addition to Dust and has brought back a lot of players. But I see there are issue regarding aim assist in the community when I truly don't think its the aim assist being the problem. First I want to address every shooter out there has had aim assist in some form or another especially console games. Whether its adhesion, friction, etc. and aim assist in Dust 514 is not really the issue i find most players are troubled by. I feel it is the problem with Dispersion and recoil in this game. So Dispersion in Dust 514 is apparent, but should be even more so; considering there is a skill to sharpen this mechanic in the game. This Skill Sharpshooter and certain operation skills (ex. assault rifles reducing kickback) the spray of the weapon is nearly as accurate as aiming down the sights making them very effective. So we should be seeing larger dispersion in hipfire (and perhaps aiming down the sights too) and the skill sharpshooter which helps tighten that hip fire have less impact (or just increase dispersion in general which making skilling into sharpshooter more viable) so people who wish to hipfire have to actually invest into this particular skill no different from any other weapon or skill points in the game. Recoil in this game is virtually non-existent and it is only masked by the dispersion of some automatic weapons (HMG). You will notice very many automatic weapon have low recoil but high dispersion (or at least higher than other weapons) a great example would be our HMG which does not recoil at all. But despite having no recoil its dispersion is quite large, yet some might figure with a weapon that is a sort of replica of LMG in modern day weapons there would be higher recoil. Now this example goes hand and hand with Assault rifles and SMG; every automatic in the game. The only weapons that seem to have some sense of recoil is semi automatics. So in conclusion, aim assist really is not the issue I see being apart of the core shooting mechanic in the game. Everyone has played with aim assist and probably didn't even know it. The only reason its apparent now is because we had adjust without aim assist for so long that now we see how aim assist helps with precision and comfortable shooting. I think players who are upset about aim assist should be more focused on giving feedback on Dispersion and Recoil in the game if anything. Look at game like battlefield which survivability is so much lower compared this game but hipfire from 50 meters is pointless compared to aiming down the sights. Yet in Dust which Survivability is higher considering we can taking more of a beating the; dispersion and recoil which is not even noticeable is what I think everyone truly feels is overlooked.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 111	Posted - 2013.09.09 14:40:00 - [2] - Quote hopefully CCP will see this and respond.... Fat chance right.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 112	Posted - 2013.09.09 14:50:00 - [3] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: What we experience right now is a combination of changes that come all together now. First the low recoil / dipersion that you can achieve through skills The greatly improved hit detection for most weapons A srong aim assist (its not really an aimbot) Before 1.4 the bad hit detection somewhat balanced automatic weapons and therefore the skills were fine now this balancing factor was removed and the true power of those skills appear. The aim assist is not really the source for that issue but it makes things a bit worse. All this lead to drastic reduction in TTK which is not good for Dust. I made a suggestion a while back to tone the skills down a bit, but maybe a change to sharpshooter so it only affects dispersion while ads could help as well the same could be done for the operation skill. So in order to benefit from those skills you have at least to aim in some way... Still the AR/SMG are the only weapons that benefits from those skills there are still weapons with similar "problem" like SCR, AsCR or the LR these weapons benefit greatly from the combination of improved hit detection and AA. I have no clue what to do with these weapons. Well I think the best way to address these kinds of weapons like the scrambler rifles is no different increase the recoil making timing shoots more effective while hipfire has to be skilled into for that particular weapon since sharpshooter is for every weapon in the game's skill tree. As for Laser Rifles keep as is, it has to do a constant amount of damage which means in order to keep the damage you must maintain the hit the entire encounter making it overlap the recoil and dispersion issue since this weapon is pointless is close quarters (clever weapon CCP). As for Assault Scrambler rifle same rules apply since its used for assault purpose increase dispersion and recoil.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 112	Posted - 2013.09.09 14:52:00 - [4] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Correction: I believe dispersion only has a skill to help it for the HMG and AR, not scrambler, SMG, or SP. no if you check the skill tree you can see every weapon has a skill for sharpshooter. Certain weapon get operation skills which increase accuracy which operation levels for assault rifles get as well the HMG.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 113	Posted - 2013.09.09 15:31:00 - [5] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: i honestly dont get why every1 wants to hate aim assist... it really didnt change much... hit detection seemed to be improved... aim assist isnt really noticeable for me. im pretty sure the proto bears r just complaining like noobs and want to nerf everything except their own stuff... there is not a major problem that i know of that has come from 1.4 so far as the proto nubs got there wish and can now freely play in the middle of the road with out being run over... Well its those who work really hard and invested into that game style that are frustrated. Also some have problems concerning RPG elements vs Shooter elements. This game is actually market towards players who are playing COD, BF, and halo Believe or not. They announced that during the fanfest 2013, i guess either most people did not see it or just ignored it.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 113	Posted - 2013.09.09 15:38:00 - [6] - Quote Minor Treat wrote: CLONE117 wrote: i honestly dont get why every1 wants to hate aim assist... it really didnt change much... hit detection seemed to be improved... aim assist isnt really noticeable for me. im pretty sure the proto bears r just complaining like noobs and want to nerf everything except their own stuff... there is not a major problem that i know of that has come from 1.4 so far as the proto nubs got there wish and can now freely play in the middle of the road with out being run over... Well its those who work really hard and invested into that game style that are frustrated. Also some have problems concerning RPG elements vs Shooter elements. This game is actually market towards players who are playing COD, BF, and halo Believe or not. They announced that during the fanfest 2013, i guess either most people did not see it or just ignored it. also i think players have this misconception about aim assist in shooters that it's essentially a "aim for you" button vs its really a shooting smooth system which allow more comfortable shooting levels.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 116	Posted - 2013.09.09 20:30:00 - [7] - Quote g4 status wrote: Minor Treat wrote: I think a lot of people are upset about the aim assist because the increase in use of hip fire which I totally understand. To be honest I love 1.4 in every way, I think its a great addition to Dust and has brought back a lot of players. But I see there are issue regarding aim assist in the community when I truly don't think its the aim assist being the problem. First I want to address every shooter out there has had aim assist in some form or another especially console games. Whether its adhesion, friction, etc. and aim assist in Dust 514 is not really the issue i find most players are troubled by. I feel it is the problem with Dispersion and recoil in this game. So Dispersion in Dust 514 is apparent, but should be even more so; considering there is a skill to sharpen this mechanic in the game. This Skill Sharpshooter and certain operation skills (ex. assault rifles reducing kickback) the spray of the weapon is nearly as accurate as aiming down the sights making them very effective. So we should be seeing larger dispersion in hipfire (and perhaps aiming down the sights too) and the skill sharpshooter which helps tighten that hip fire have less impact (or just increase dispersion in general which making skilling into sharpshooter more viable) so people who wish to hipfire have to actually invest into this particular skill no different from any other weapon or skill points in the game. Recoil in this game is virtually non-existent and it is only masked by the dispersion of some automatic weapons (HMG). You will notice very many automatic weapon have low recoil but high dispersion (or at least higher than other weapons) a great example would be our HMG which does not recoil at all. But despite having no recoil its dispersion is quite large, yet some might figure with a weapon that is a sort of replica of LMG in modern day weapons there would be higher recoil. Now this example goes hand and hand with Assault rifles and SMG; every automatic in the game. The only weapons that seem to have some sense of recoil is semi automatics. So in conclusion, aim assist really is not the issue I see being apart of the core shooting mechanic in the game. Everyone has played with aim assist and probably didn't even know it. The only reason its apparent now is because we had adjust without aim assist for so long that now we see how aim assist helps with precision and comfortable shooting. I think players who are upset about aim assist should be more focused on giving feedback on Dispersion and Recoil in the game if anything. Look at game like battlefield which survivability is so much lower compared this game but hipfire from 50 meters is pointless compared to aiming down the sights. Yet in Dust which Survivability is higher considering we can taking more of a beating the; dispersion and recoil which is not even noticeable is what I think everyone truly feels is overlooked. Damn dude your right, Battlefield 3 did it why not Dust i think dust is trying to do it
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 116	Posted - 2013.09.09 20:59:00 - [8] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: The ASCR is automatic, but has recoil, but the hipfire makes this void. indeed it has recoil but nearly enough. The automatics in the game should have a larger recoil considering the damage hipfire can do, so when someone hip fires there should be larger dispersion but aiming down the sights should have larger recoil. So when ASCR and most semi automatics has some sense of recoil, it clearly is not enough considering you can skill into the sharpshooter skill to help stabilize this core mechanic. So the sense of recoil you feel for the weapon is probably going to be less if you actually spend skill points into sharpshooter but I run ASCR without this skill and feel recoil is not nearly enough sense I don't dedicate to it. you get my drift?
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 125	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:41:00 - [9] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: I Suport this endevor, but still my crazy laser Assist needs fixed, whiping back and forth and killing people without me aiming is weird. good to know your supporting, thanks dude. give it a few days, its the adjustment from without aim assist to aim assist. Its very noticable when AA was removed for so long, When i went back to battlefield during halfway point of 1.3 I notice aim assist right away. It the exact same.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 125	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:47:00 - [10] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: g4 status wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: I Suport this endevor, but still my crazy laser Assist needs fixed, whiping back and forth and killing people without me aiming is weird. I love the improved laser rifle even with the aim assist, now it feels viable for once. actual since this release cheap tactics are at a all time low and aiming feels great. I actually can't ***** about weapon balance anymore since shooting feels more comfortable and more so less cheesy with the whole matrix left and right dodge. I agree, which is why my SC-Rifle and laser are seeing the light of day. just saying when my laser puts on a Daft Punk laser light show whiping all over the place while i hip fire it and hitting multiple targets, i kinda want the assist toned down a tad. again i could agree but that problem could be fixed by just increasing recoil so instead of fighting the aim one has just got to learn how to dispersion shoots without holding down R1 all day. Which this principle should apply to every weapon in the game. As for the Laser you're already at risk enough as is, once it overheats your screwed against a experienced player because of the overheating damage you take and your defenseless for a while.

Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 125	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:48:00 - [11] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: The ASCR is automatic, but has recoil, but the hipfire makes this void. indeed it has recoil but nearly enough. The automatics in the game should have a larger recoil considering the damage hipfire can do, so when someone hip fires there should be larger dispersion but aiming down the sights should have larger recoil. So when ASCR and most semi automatics has some sense of recoil, it clearly is not enough considering you can skill into the sharpshooter skill to help stabilize this core mechanic. So the sense of recoil you feel for the weapon is probably going to be less if you actually spend skill points into sharpshooter but I run ASCR without this skill and feel recoil is not nearly enough sense I don't dedicate to it. you get my drift? I think the ScAR is pretty good on recoil considering its RoF. Maybe just a tad bit more. But the AR has much higher RoF and less recoil. Doesn't make any sense to me I agree, just by increase all weapon recoil whether its more or less would help the concept of controlling dispersion in shooting.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 125	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:57:00 - [12] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: The big question is: Will the Aim Assist negate kick and dispersion? It shouldn't because aim assist is strictly use for adhesion meaning people who are moving the aim assist helps circle around the target. so if the recoil increases than the aim is going up which aim assist cannot help with.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 125	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:58:00 - [13] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/fine-tuning-aiming-and-controls/ Read this carefully. Some good stuff in it. oh yeah i loved this post. Hopefully we can see a increase in weapon control now such as recoil and dispersion. Core mechanics in my opinion are great.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 125	Posted - 2013.09.09 22:08:00 - [14] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: The big question is: Will the Aim Assist negate kick and dispersion? good question too dude.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 125	Posted - 2013.09.09 22:25:00 - [15] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Burntface man112 wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: The ASCR is automatic, but has recoil, but the hipfire makes this void. indeed it has recoil but nearly enough. The automatics in the game should have a larger recoil considering the damage hipfire can do, so when someone hip fires there should be larger dispersion but aiming down the sights should have larger recoil. So when ASCR and most semi automatics has some sense of recoil, it clearly is not enough considering you can skill into the sharpshooter skill to help stabilize this core mechanic. So the sense of recoil you feel for the weapon is probably going to be less if you actually spend skill points into sharpshooter but I run ASCR without this skill and feel recoil is not nearly enough sense I don't dedicate to it. you get my drift? I think the ScAR is pretty good on recoil considering its RoF. Maybe just a tad bit more. But the AR has much higher RoF and less recoil. Doesn't make any sense to me a lot of weapon in modern day have high rate of fire and low recoil.. Take the F2000 for example or the Scar H The F2000 is a subby so lacks range, and the SCAR H has lower damage to compensate for increased RoF. Everything has a balance, whereas the AR does not. Imo, it needs reduced range and more dispersion/kick, or less damage Actually i have fired a real F2000 is effective range to 500 meters which is pretty good. Because its gas operated its a bullpup and compact. As for the SCAR has many models it could be a 16 or 17 mk mod. its effective range is 300 to 500 meters depending on the models. so your Scar H does not lose power it increase power compared to the 16 which is L