DUST Search - DUST is a low sense game

Aramis Madrigal wrote:

I'm still getting acclimated to the mouse changes and welcome the ability to independently set ADS and hipfire values. I play as a ground level/assault sniper (most shots in the 75m-200m range, with 3/4 sniping, 1/4 ~15m CQC), so having the mouse sensitivity set very low puts me at a disadvantage if I end up in CQC (SMG). When shooting at dancing targets, I find myself missing a fair number of sniper rifle shots by small margins and tracking is a bit more difficult. However, having the sensitivity set high (~80) allows me to pan a very large area and get every cheap kill possible (anytime someone stands still for a moment). I'm getting the same number of kills, but more of them are from quickly panning to momentarily immobile targets and fewer from hitting people who are dancing. For me, it seems like my ceiling is higher if I can keep the sensitivity very high and just get better at fine tracking, allowing me to cover a large area and make fine adjustments to kill dancing targets.

Cheers,

Aramis

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Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 122	Posted - 2013.09.08 03:39:00 - [1] - Quote No, of course I don't mean DUST makes no sense... I am talking about mouse sensitivity. I'm finally comfortable again with the mouse controls, and let me say this: CCP, you've nailed it. The mouse is about perfect now, all that is left is to improve game performance. I think a lot of mouse users are irritated right now because the ADS changes really changed the game. In 1.3 I used a fairly high sensitivity, simply out of necessity because otherwise the ADS would be unusably slow. Now that ADS got fixed, DUST can finally be played at a low sensitivity, like it's meant to. I've never seen a true low sense player in any of the DUST videos, so it's understandable that many mouse users are struggling now. The reason DUST is a low sense game is simple: It's all about tracking, and tracking benefits from a lower sensitivity. It is very similar in that regard to Return to Castle Wolfenstein, which was always played with a low sensitivity on the highest level of skill. A good example of what a high skilled player can do with a mouse in that game is this: mystic sample (2 minutes video) If you watch this video, I hope you can see why mouse users being afraid of DS3 users with aim assist is kind of silly. If you can't beat the aim assist, you have nobody to blame but yourself. Note that this is all pure, legit mouse input, no bot, aim assists, or anything of the sort. And yes, this is possible in DUST. Performance issues can and do get in the way, but that is a separate problem and shouldn't be part of the conversation about game design. Some said that reducing sensitivity means that you turn slower than a DS3 user, but that is complete nonsense. Reducing sensitivity does not reduce your maximum turning speed. All you need to turn fast is a larger mouse mat, and to properly work your arm. If you find that this is too much effort, I am sure that you have a gamepad lying around and a comfortable couch to use it on. You still won't be flicking back and forth in nanoseconds, but that's the price to pay for accurate aiming and can easily be compensated for with positional awareness. Also, everyone has to find their own sweet spot of course, but what I found works best for me so far is an 1800 DPI mouse (my old Razer DeathAdder, it's just beautiful for low sense gaming) with sensitivity set to 30. Mouse smoothing is off. With mouse smoothing I'd double the sensitivity setting, but I find that mouse smoothing creates very unpredictable results when the framerates go down. As long as turning 180 degrees requires you to use the full width of your (large) mouse mat, you know you are using low sense. If you are currently frustrated with the mouse controls, I highly recommend that you give this a try, even if it takes a while to get used to it. I am sure that you will reap the rewards of it soon enough. Anyway, make of this what you like. I'm sure some will still disagree and insist that mouse controls are iffy, but if you'd rather adapt than complain, I hope that the above is of some use to you.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1499	Posted - 2013.09.08 03:40:00 - [2] - Quote Bacon
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 122	Posted - 2013.09.08 03:43:00 - [3] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Bacon Thank you for providing the TL/DR version, I forgot.
SgtDoughnut M.E.R.C. Elite D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 32	Posted - 2013.09.08 03:49:00 - [4] - Quote I am going to have to try this, i keep my sensitivity high in TF2 due to being a pyro and being able to 180 and reflect is really important, but since there isnt as much mobility in dust tracking is much more important here.
The legend345 TeamPlayers EoN. 951	Posted - 2013.09.08 04:03:00 - [5] - Quote What???? The mouse still sucks lol.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3900	Posted - 2013.09.08 05:02:00 - [6] - Quote Also keep in mind that 1.5 is supposedly going to introduce independent ADS and hipfire sensitivity settings.
Khal V'Rani Nephilim Initiative 289	Posted - 2013.09.08 05:09:00 - [7] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Also keep in mind that 1.5 is supposedly going to introduce independent ADS and hipfire sensitivity settings. Really? It's about time...
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 59	Posted - 2013.09.08 05:38:00 - [8] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Also keep in mind that 1.5 is supposedly going to introduce independent ADS and hipfire sensitivity settings. And not a minute too soon!
Kiro Justice The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 479	Posted - 2013.09.08 07:20:00 - [9] - Quote The legend345 wrote: What???? The mouse still sucks lol. An intelligent response indeed.
XiBravo TeamPlayers EoN. 243	Posted - 2013.09.08 07:43:00 - [10] - Quote Op is comparing raw input without input lag to LOL dust mouse... The two are distant 3rd cousins... In law...

Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 129	Posted - 2013.09.08 11:44:00 - [11] - Quote XiBravo wrote: Op is comparing raw input without input lag to LOL dust mouse... The two are distant 3rd cousins... In law... Nope, mouse is fine. Of course a 30 FPS game will never truly compare to a 120 FPS PC game, but it's good enough to achieve near perfect aiming and tracking (that leaves aim assist in the dust). If you can't, don't blame the game. There is still a turn speed limitation, but it's so high, that it's effectively irrelevant for low sense gameplay. Significant input lag only happens when the framerates go down, which still happens way too often (especially when squads face each other). But mouse is not the only input device struggling in those situations, and once you recognise the situation you can at least try to adapt to it. If you want CCP to "fix" the mouse, ask them to improve rendering performance. That's the only thing missing now.
Halfwings Warbringer ThislsWhyimhot 32	Posted - 2013.09.08 12:06:00 - [12] - Quote 800 dpi mouse already can turn whole circle u don't need over 1k dpi
Eversor Beercase Beer For Evil Mercs 19	Posted - 2013.09.08 12:12:00 - [13] - Quote Csikszent Mihalyi wrote: Mouse is good enough, but the thing holding non-assisted aim back is lag compensation (hit detection). Since aim assist tracks the actual hitbox rather than the model, aim assist is producing more accurate hits compared to non-assisted aimers shooting at the model, which may or may not be aligned with the hitbox. The more orthogonal your target's movements are in relation to you, the harder it's currently to hit your target with non-assisted aim, since at that moment the hitbox is furthest from the model. People playing with aim assist don't have this problem which results in faster kills with high RoF weapons compared to 1.3.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 142	Posted - 2013.09.09 16:21:00 - [14] - Quote The last couple of days I've had killing sprees of 13 (from a 24/10 game), 15 (15/0), and 16 (17/1). I'm still improving rapidly and I haven't been playing a lot this week (I might not even cap), so these are not one-in-a-million results but fairly common. I'm playing a 2mil SP character, always solo with advanced gear (Caldari Assault), nothing fancy. If it would be true that everybody is now a perfect aim and gear does not matter, then this shouldn't really be possible. Those who say that you can't go 1 vs X now because everyone is able to hit you are forgetting that you can still aim faster and more accurately than any aim assisted stick user. The trick to surviving plain and simply is to kill the enemies faster than they can kill you. Even if they hit you, you can still beat the odds by landing more headshots for example. Of course you won't usually be able to pull this off against equally skilled opponents, but that's working as intended. Mouse still reigns supreme, it just takes a little bit more effort now. The bane of the mouse user definitely is the performance issue, but if you are consciously aware of it, you can lessen the impact of it. I noticed two things in particular: 1) The biggest framerate issues appear when many players are on the screen, so if at all possible, avoid playing where the blob is. If you absolutely have to be part of the blob, just keep in mind that this is handicapping you (levelling the playing field) and play more defensively until the situation improves. 2) The large outposts pretty much all lag, whatever the situation is. I'd suggest to stay away from them if possible, and again, if you have to play in the outpost, be aware that this does not work to your advantage and play more carefully. If you have to play as part of the blob, engaging another blob in an outpost... Use explosives.
Aramis Madrigal SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 32	Posted - 2013.09.09 16:47:00 - [15] - Quote I'm still getting acclimated to the mouse changes and welcome the ability to independently set ADS and hipfire values. I play as a ground level/assault sniper (most shots in the 75m-200m range, with 3/4 sniping, 1/4 ~15m CQC), so having the mouse sensitivity set very low puts me at a disadvantage if I end up in CQC (SMG). When shooting at dancing targets, I find myself missing a fair number of sniper rifle shots by small margins and tracking is a bit more difficult. However, having the sensitivity set high (~80) allows me to pan a very large area and get every cheap kill possible (anytime someone stands still for a moment). I'm getting the same number of kills, but more of them are from quickly panning to momentarily immobile targets and fewer from hitting people who are dancing. For me, it seems like my ceiling is higher if I can keep the sensitivity very high and just get better at fine tracking, allowing me to cover a large area and make fine adjustments to kill dancing targets. Cheers, Aramis
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 143	Posted - 2013.09.09 16:59:00 - [16] - Quote Aramis Madrigal wrote: I'm still getting acclimated to the mouse changes and welcome the ability to independently set ADS and hipfire values. I play as a ground level/assault sniper (most shots in the 75m-200m range, with 3/4 sniping, 1/4 ~15m CQC), so having the mouse sensitivity set very low puts me at a disadvantage if I end up in CQC (SMG). When shooting at dancing targets, I find myself missing a fair number of sniper rifle shots by small margins and tracking is a bit more difficult. However, having the sensitivity set high (~80) allows me to pan a very large area and get every cheap kill possible (anytime someone stands still for a moment). I'm getting the same number of kills, but more of them are from quickly panning to momentarily immobile targets and fewer from hitting people who are dancing. For me, it seems like my ceiling is higher if I can keep the sensitivity very high and just get better at fine tracking, allowing me to cover a large area and make fine adjustments to kill dancing targets. Cheers, Aramis Yeah of course I should specify that DUST is a low sense game only when you play with any of the tracking weapons (AR, SCR, LR, SMG, etc). Other weapon types can differ, although you'd probably still benefit from a low sense in most cases. You should have no problem with low sense when using the SMG in CQC. But quickly swiping an area while being scoped in with a sniper rifle, that's a different story (although I didn't know that that's a thing ).
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 2067	Posted - 2013.09.09 17:01:00 - [17] - Quote Mouse has and still desperately needs independent ADS/Hip fire aim sensitivity. I'm glad you found a setting that works for you OP but everyone is different and we just need a way for people to set aim sens to a level they are comfortable with.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 143	Posted - 2013.09.09 17:09:00 - [18] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Mouse has and still desperately needs independent ADS/Hip fire aim sensitivity. I'm glad you found a setting that works for you OP but everyone is different and we just need a way for people to set aim sens to a level they are comfortable with. That's going to be the most comfortable, but in the meantime, everyone can adapt if they put their mind to it. :) Like most of us had to adapt to the ridiculously slow ADS of old, before we got used to it.
Cappy Gorram DUST University Ivy League 15	Posted - 2013.09.09 17:32:00 - [19] - Quote Thanks for the tip, OP. Just bumped mine down from 70 to 50, and it's feeling much better.
Fenix Alexarr BurgezzE.T.F 25	Posted - 2013.09.09 17:49:00 - [20] - Quote I've played with the settings (not quite as low as you are talking about), but I'm still finding that firing zoomed in is absolutely infuriating sometimes. Glad to hear that someone is having some luck with the new aiming, but I'll stick to my sniper rifle and adjustable dpi mouse (for SMG in your face situations) until I can un"kitten" my controls.

Nemo Bluntz TeamPlayers EoN. 602	Posted - 2013.09.09 18:15:00 - [21] - Quote If you think Dust's mouse is "perfect", then... I don't even know how to respond to such nonsense, really. It's awful. I would love to see you posting a video of how amazing the mouse is in this game, not in another game. I got a good laugh when I went to the video and it was Enemy Territory.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 145	Posted - 2013.09.09 18:31:00 - [22] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: If you think Dust's mouse is "perfect", then... I don't even know how to respond to such nonsense, really. It's awful. I would love to see you posting a video of how amazing the mouse is in this game, not in another game. I got a good laugh when I went to the video and it was Enemy Territory. I wish I could, but I have no good way of recording from the PS3. I'll try to get some decent cam footage eventually.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 148	Posted - 2013.09.10 08:30:00 - [23] - Quote Csikszent Mihalyi wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: If you think Dust's mouse is "perfect", then... I don't even know how to respond to such nonsense, really. It's awful. I would love to see you posting a video of how amazing the mouse is in this game, not in another game. I got a good laugh when I went to the video and it was Enemy Territory. I wish I could, but I have no good way of recording from the PS3. I'll try to get some decent cam footage eventually. Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fa_4VbJV7w (This is the character, and this is the fitting) Sorry for the bad quality, but that's the best I can do with my phone. These are the endings and "highlights" from all the matches I played yesterday, unfortunately they were all pretty slow games and I didn't do all that well, but it was good enough to give at least an idea of what the mouse is capable of. I'm not a mystic and my aim is far from flawless, but that's not the game's fault. Everyone can make up their own mind whether the mouse is really "awful".


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