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Protocake JR
Ancient Exiles
638
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Posted - 2013.09.06 18:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
What is keeping us from having at least 24 v 24 on the battlefield? Is it the hardware?
The maps are too large for these low player counts. |
Roofer Madness
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
208
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Posted - 2013.09.06 18:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree. I love the new maps but they are HUGE. I feel like every game is in the Oceania server now....  |
demonkiller 12
G.U.T.Z
Covert Intervention
177
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Posted - 2013.09.06 18:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:What is keeping us from having at least 24 v 24 on the battlefield? Is it the hardware?
The maps are too large for these low player counts.
i thought this was an issue with the U3 engine |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
3232
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Posted - 2013.09.06 18:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Merc pack description says the game supports 2-48 network players.
Flip the switch CCP :3 |
Flix Keptick
Red Star.
EoN.
63
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Posted - 2013.09.06 18:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
The lack of said players... |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star.
EoN.
1038
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Posted - 2013.09.06 18:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
My crystal ball says it is a PS3 hardware issue...
... 'the faithful' among us are absolutely loving the maps not only because they are cool in themselves, but because of what lies beyond the redline and what that implies for the future of this game. |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
3508
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Posted - 2013.09.06 18:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
As has been said before, MAG supported 256 players through whatever means they devised.
The Unreal Engine can support far larger environments than what we have now, and was demonstrated as able to support rendering hundreds of moving characters onscreen at once while holding steady framerates.
We have clear past evidence of both of these systems being capable of supporting far more than what we have right now.
I'm not sure why, but CCP is playing it safe. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
670
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 18:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I'm not sure why, but CCP is playing it safe.
Methinks this is the case. If you've noticed, every successive version of DUST has reduced the polygon count of the models, thought the textures continue to be massively improved.
The new Gallente maps actually appear to be lower poly count than, say, Communication, because of their simplified concrete structure. My sneaking suspicion is that once all the older maps are updated or replaced, we'll see higher player counts per match. |
Hugh G Dildeaux
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1
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Posted - 2013.09.07 04:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
a little something called bandwidth. |
DootDoot
Sebiestor Field Sappers
Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2013.09.07 04:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
The memory leaks are everywhere! we needs more duct tape for that many peoples! |
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Csikszent Mihalyi
DUST University
Ivy League
111
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Posted - 2013.09.07 04:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Are you kidding? The game can't even maintain 30 FPS at the current player count, that's your reason right there.
I'll be amazed if CCP even manages to get 32 players running smoothly on the PS3 still, I wouldn't even dream of increasing the player count at this point. This isn't simply a matter of the hardware, engine, or CCP's competence, but a mixture of everything.
Of course things will be very different on the PS4. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
674
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Posted - 2013.09.07 04:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
DootDoot wrote:The memory leaks are everywhere! we needs more duct tape for that many peoples!
CCP Dev team is Minmatar? |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
1000
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Posted - 2013.09.07 04:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:DootDoot wrote:The memory leaks are everywhere! we needs more duct tape for that many peoples! CCP Dev team is Minmatar?
They're Caldari |
Gods Architect
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
376
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Posted - 2013.09.07 05:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:What is keeping us from having at least 24 v 24 on the battlefield? Is it the hardware? The maps are too large for these low player counts. EDIT: Flix Keptick wrote:The lack of said players... ^ This is actually probably why. Won't be able to fill up teams.
They clearly state the reason why at fanfest. Most corps can't fill that amount continuously, basically they need more players |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8119
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Posted - 2013.09.07 05:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Its a cumulation of various things including what you are suspecting. More so about expectancy of fielding.
It may also screw with balance in a way as well, for example there are various weapon in planetside 2 that makes the assumption that you would be among a few hundred other people that might potentially have that weapon thus enmass firing makes it more powerful than individual use. I believe in our case AV or Vehicles themselves are scale breaking factor if used enmass. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
66
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Posted - 2013.09.07 05:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:What is keeping us from having at least 24 v 24 on the battlefield? Is it the hardware?
The maps are too large for these low player counts.
I completely disagree.
If you want a "packed battlefield", go play one of the many other mindless "run and gun" games.
lower density of soldiers requires more actual tactics
The maps are just starting to get Large Enough.
|
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
66
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Posted - 2013.09.07 05:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:
The Unreal Engine can support far larger environments than what we have now, and was demonstrated as able to support rendering hundreds of moving characters onscreen at once while holding steady framerates.
there's "hundreds of characters", and then there's "hundreds of High Quality characters".
The two are worlds apart.
To make a fair comparison, you would need to know the relative numbers of polygons and bones for the characters in each game
|
Protocake JR
Ancient Exiles
651
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Posted - 2013.09.07 05:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Protocake JR wrote:What is keeping us from having at least 24 v 24 on the battlefield? Is it the hardware?
The maps are too large for these low player counts. I completely disagree. If you want a "packed battlefield", go play one of the many other mindless "run and gun" games. lower density of soldiers requires more actual tactics The maps are just starting to get Large Enough.
I completely disagree.
If you want an "empty field complete with tumbleweeds", go play one of the many other boring tactical shooters.
High density of soldiers makes the battlefield/firefights "fast and frantic" (that's what it claims in THE WAY OF THE MERCENARY trailer)
The maps have gotten too large. Standing around for 5 minutes, pretending you are using "actual tactics", until you finally find the other team who had to hike a mile to get where you are... is not good gameplay.
I should also emphasize that i'm talking, mostly, about AMBUSH. |
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
250
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Posted - 2013.09.07 05:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:As has been said before, MAG supported 256 players through whatever means they devised.
The Unreal Engine can support far larger environments than what we have now, and was demonstrated as able to support rendering hundreds of moving characters onscreen at once while holding steady framerates.
We have clear past evidence of both of these systems being capable of supporting far more than what we have right now.
I'm not sure why, but CCP is playing it safe.
Aion (the MMO on PC) would support 300v300 man battles using UR3 and with a good graphics card you could even go full textures in those fights and the graphics were absolutely stellar.
Its bandwith + PS3 limitations problems in Dust. |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
524
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Posted - 2013.09.07 05:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pretty sure its PS3 hardware. When you have a lot of things happening in a very condensed area (fighting in nearby spawns for example) you get heavy frame drops and stuttering. If they had more players it would happen way more often. The most I'm expecting is maybe an increase in 4 or so players with more emphasis on environmental improvements. |
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
EoN.
2046
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Posted - 2013.09.07 05:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
256MB of LOLRAM on the POS3 I'm sure. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
3263
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 06:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:256MB of LOLRAM on the POS3 I'm sure.
IIRC, MAG was a game played on the PS3 and could support 256 battles. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2498
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Posted - 2013.09.07 06:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
We know the PS3 can handle larger player counts, so it's not the PS3.
We know UR3 can handle larger player counts, so it's not UR3.
We know all of the "serious" corporations can handle larger player counts (look at any of the "wars" in PC and the coordination that has occurred for larger scale conflict), so we know it's not the corporations.
So, we're left with it either being yet another counter-intuitive decision by CCP, or an inability to optimize the game by CCP.
Basically your answer is the same answer for most questions involving "why is x bad?";
Because CCP |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
820
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Posted - 2013.09.07 06:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
The only map I have an issue with right now is Fracture Road (The new one with 4 objectives and the long road through the middle)
It's just too hard to get from one objective to another. It takes 45 seconds to drive across the map in an LAV going max speed down the road. It might not seem like much, but walking takes at least a minute or two just to get to the next objective...and you most likely won't run into anyone on your way there. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
EoN.
2046
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Posted - 2013.09.07 06:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:256MB of LOLRAM on the POS3 I'm sure. IIRC, MAG was a game played on the PS3 and could support 256 battles.
Oh yes I played MAG... and i'll tell you that engine was purpose built to handle it, and the battles we're not '256 players' but more like 4 lanes of 64 players.
And those lanes were more like 2 lanes of 32 players... the maps were purpose built to keep players apart so as not to burn anyone's PS3.
In the end they had to take such care to build the maps that they could never add new maps/content and the game died as a result. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
EoN.
2046
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 06:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:So, we're left with it either being yet another counter-intuitive decision by CCP, or an inability to optimize the game by CCP.
Basically your answer is the same answer for most questions involving "why is x bad?";
Because CCP
This as well, its quite obvious the engine isn't very optimized. They are optimizing it bit by bit with each patch though, so that's good at least... I guess...
I doubt we'll see a departure from 16v16 until PS4. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
3263
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 06:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:256MB of LOLRAM on the POS3 I'm sure. IIRC, MAG was a game played on the PS3 and could support 256 battles. Oh yes I played MAG... and i'll tell you that engine was purpose built to handle it, and the battles we're not '256 players' but more like 4 lanes of 64 players. And those lanes were more like 2 lanes of 32 players... the maps were purpose built to keep players apart so as not to burn anyone's PS3. In the end they had to take such care to build the maps that they could never add new maps/content and the game died as a result.
I won't pretend like I've played MAG, because I haven't. Any info I speak of comes from others.
This does sound like a good way to go about it though. Utilize the entire map, but have each area its own warzone. I remember hearing CCP brag about how the maps are immensely huge (what was it, 5km x 5km?), but we utilize so little of them. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1030
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Posted - 2013.09.07 07:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
While MAG had the 256 players seperated into four 64 player sections it was still possible for all the 256 players to fight over the same two letters. It would be a little hard for the attackers though, since most of them would spawn far away (defenders could all spawn close to the two letters), but it would be possible in theory.
Although, there were huge framerate and lag problems when you gathered a huge amound of players at the same place. Look up the video of ContraBanJoe gathering most or all of his team at the same place and you will see how bad the framerate/lag was.
If all four sections were at their respective letters the framerate/lag would always get worse even though all four sections were still seperated and attacking/defending their respective letters.
Regarding Dust, I'm sure the current maps are designed for 48 or 64 players, since they seem too huge for 32 players in my opinion, and I'm not sure if Dust would even get much worse framerate/lag wise even if got 48 player battles. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1771
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 07:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:As has been said before, MAG supported 256 players through whatever means they devised.
The Unreal Engine can support far larger environments than what we have now, and was demonstrated as able to support rendering hundreds of moving characters onscreen at once while holding steady framerates.
We have clear past evidence of both of these systems being capable of supporting far more than what we have right now.
I'm not sure why, but CCP is playing it safe.
good point, but also remember unlike MAG tranquility is running two entire games on it now and I certainly dont know the toll that might have on the hardware, since it has to communicate with a pc and a ps3.
I wanna think CCP is simply keeping the flood gates closed to iron down the core mechanics, which is backed up by the fact that we are really only playing on a tiny tiny part of our actual maps.
Honestly, these core mechanics are a lot closer to being at that finished state in 1.4 if we are honest to ourselves......Increased player counts might be a lot closer than we think....
edit: and yes......zdub has a point. ps3 has lolram. |
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