DUST Search - KBM Skill IS NOT DS3 Skill: Why aim assist?

All Channels

General Discussions

KBM Skill IS NOT DS3 Skill: Why aim assist?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1423	Posted - 2013.09.05 20:37:00 - [1] - Quote That is to say, you can't compare them. The way the client/server deals with their input is very different. DS3 is/was an order of magnitude more difficult to manage and control than the keyboard (as far as aiming and tracking are concerned). Reason 1: Strafing. In 1.3 strafing could be down with KBM with more ease, faster acceleration, and with more random rhythm than with DS3 sticks. This shouldn't take much explaining. You can tap ADADAD a lot faster than you can pivot a stick. Not to mention KB input creates instant acceleration, not the 'nearly instant' that the DS3 does. Reason 2: Residual input and input acceleration. With a mouse, depending on how fast you move it it will cross the screen at a rate proportional to speed, this is like the DS3 sticks. But this is where the similarity stops. Mouse movement IS reticle movement. DS3 movement is a force. When you stop moving the mouse the reticle stops. When you let up on the DS3 stick, there is residual movement. This is VERY difficult to manage with moving targets and makes KBM a MUCH EASIER tool for tracking because you have SO MUCH MORE control over stopping acceleration. The mental prediction and correction with a mouse in adjusting aim is by far easier than controlling acceleration from some sliding logarithmic predefined acceleration amount that differs from ADS and hipfire for DS3 input. Reason 3: Latency. Because of the above reasons when there is any small bit of latency in your connection, the drawbacks of the DS3 are compounded. Knowing when your input of acceleration are going to take effect on your reticle becomes that much more unpredictable. With mouse, correction becomes A LOT EASIER with choppy frame rate. So given two equal connection speeds, KBM has a good advantage. Given two equally crappy connections the KBM has a significant advantage. Therefore what aim-assist does is it helps to negate the effect of the DS3's residual (returning-to-center) stick movement, by letting the way in which a player lands on target happen on a 'force curve' that lets them cut off stick input more smoothly, whereas before it had to be more sudden and often with a re-correction. Finally in a related note....this horse is not dead yet, it must be beaten A LOT MORE. People are dying faster because more bullets are hitting. More bullets are hitting because MORE BULLETS ARE HITTING. More bullets are hitting because of SOME better aiming AND BECAUSE OF HIT DETECTION IMPROVEMENTS. Hit detection improvements means MORE BULLETS ARE HITTING. If you go toe to toe with a HIGH DAMAGE and HIGH ROF weapon, somebody is going to die FAST. Easy mode is off now.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2473	Posted - 2013.09.05 20:41:00 - [2] - Quote Have you hipfired any of the medium-long range weapons? If you're aiming down sights now, you're just making aiming harder, even at long range. Just point in their general direction and move left and right a bit, when the reticle turns red fire until they're dead. Rinse/repeat. "Easy mode" is most definitely now ON for any of us using DS3.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1424	Posted - 2013.09.05 20:53:00 - [3] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Have you hipfired any of the medium-long range weapons? If you're aiming down sights now, you're just making aiming harder, even at long range. Just point in their general direction and move left and right a bit, when the reticle turns red fire until they're dead. Rinse/repeat. "Easy mode" is most definitely now ON for any of us using DS3. If this comment corresponds to anything, it has more to do with the design drawbacks of hitscan and not to aim-assist. You are't even commenting on the difficulty of dealing with indirect acceleration control on DS3 vs. direct acceleration control with mouse. The nature of hip fire with DS3 with med-long range weapons is still more difficult at their medium to long ideal range than it is with a KBM, and it was immensely more difficult before. If they should look at anything next, it should be the effect of movement on the hitscan mechanic, tuning guns to their effective and intended racial profile/ damage application design but this would likely result in yet another nerf to strafing.
XiBravo TeamPlayers EoN. 210	Posted - 2013.09.05 20:57:00 - [4] - Quote Beren i have a feeling you do not use kb/m and ds3. I use mouse only and disagree with most of what you have to say.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1427	Posted - 2013.09.05 20:58:00 - [5] - Quote XiBravo wrote: Beren i have a feeling you do not use kb/m and ds3. I use mouse only and disagree with most of what you have to say. Specifically what do you disagree with, explain why, please. I'm pretty confident that user input works as I've described and contributes to difficulty in the way I've described.
Duran Lex Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 212	Posted - 2013.09.05 21:02:00 - [6] - Quote Don't even bother. You can't win with these guys, even using logic. They have been in denial for so long, they actually started believing that using two thumbs to tilt sticks in different directions is just as efficient as twitching your wrist to achieve the same crosshair movement. It's burned into their heads to ignore the physical impossibility that those muscle movements are equal in comparison. It's always sad when delusion overshadows logic. Edit - Beren, goodluck with this crowd
Dust Project 514 Pistol King 274	Posted - 2013.09.05 21:04:00 - [7] - Quote Remove aim assist, Kb/M, and Move support; And this won't be a problem anymore. CCP is just complicating things for EVERYONE.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 327	Posted - 2013.09.05 21:08:00 - [8] - Quote Dust Project 514 wrote: Remove aim assist, Kb/M, and Move support; And this won't be a problem anymore. CCP is just complicating things for EVERYONE.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 219	Posted - 2013.09.05 21:42:00 - [9] - Quote Dust Project 514 wrote: Remove aim assist, Kb/M, and Move support; And this won't be a problem anymore. CCP is just complicating things for EVERYONE. Trying their best to please everyone is more how I see it.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2481	Posted - 2013.09.06 01:25:00 - [10] - Quote Jungian wrote: Dust Project 514 wrote: Remove aim assist, Kb/M, and Move support; And this won't be a problem anymore. CCP is just complicating things for EVERYONE. Trying their best to please everyone is more how I see it. A classic fool's errand.

Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 221	Posted - 2013.09.07 02:20:00 - [11] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Jungian wrote: Dust Project 514 wrote: Remove aim assist, Kb/M, and Move support; And this won't be a problem anymore. CCP is just complicating things for EVERYONE. Trying their best to please everyone is more how I see it. A classic fool's errand. CCP are fools for trying to please everyone? Now thats a classic stupid thought, but not a unique one for these forums..
Vin Vicious Capital Acquisitions LLC Public Disorder. 363	Posted - 2013.09.07 02:32:00 - [12] - Quote Dust Project 514 wrote: Remove aim assist, Kb/M, and Move support; And this won't be a problem anymore. CCP is just complicating things for EVERYONE. Or just move it to PC where it original was planned. This way CCP won't have to worry about some sh!t legacy hardware not being able to fit all the suits vehciles and maps and an outdated input device Here hoping their waiting for the numbers to dwindle down so low they'll be forced to pull the plug or port it to the PC
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3841	Posted - 2013.09.07 02:54:00 - [13] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Therefore what aim-assist does is it helps to negate the effect of the DS3's residual (returning-to-center) stick movement, by letting the way in which a player lands on target happen on a 'force curve' that lets them cut off stick input more smoothly, whereas before it had to be more sudden and often with a re-correction. This is handled in DUST by the "aim friction" that CCP implemented ages ago a a separate function from aim assist. It can't be turned on and off, doesn't adjust your aim at all for any reason, and just makes your turn speed slightly lower as you turn away from a target, making fine aim slightly easier near enemies. It's been properly implemented since BEFORE CHROMOSOME, and nobody has complained or had problems with it. The kind of aim assist that CCP use the term for is totally unnecessary, and arguing this reason as being a valid use for it tells me that you're missing facts about the situation. The kind of aim assist DUST needs is already there, and it still active even when you turn aim assist off. The kind of aim assist that DUST players have a problem with is the active auto-aim system that adjusts the character's aim without direct player input. This kind of aim assist isn't inherently bad, but in its current state in DUST, it should be adjusted to have less of an effect.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1449	Posted - 2013.09.07 03:07:00 - [14] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMqe6MhXY6Y Interesting video of someone testing the AA. I'm really thinking that if you watch this you will see how the AA is working. It stats to track when a moving target gets in you cosshairs. Therefore, probably one of the ways you can throw it off is to strafe in and out of cover, or behind object tat will turn off the crosshairs from being red, It shouldn't tack you any longer because the crosshairs will stop, but not pull the crosshairs to you. I am not on at the moment to be able to test this until late this next week.


Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.