DUST Search - PSA: Patch Days and what to expect!

Vespasian Andendare wrote:

Noc Tempre wrote:

You don't know how normal MMOs are made. The "incomplete game" model is actually very new western take on the F2P model. New features used to come in expansion packs, not patches. Oh, and almost all "incomplete game" projects are flopping hard. Even PS2, which I love, and admittedly uses this same model (albeit now at 15 months of consistent new content) is not as financially stable as SOE hoped, which is probably why they are focusing on making the game more accessible (optimization so lower powered hardware and consoles will run it smoothly).

Really? I think I have a pretty good idea about how these things work.

How about some real-world facts? Let's look at patch history for what is arguably the largest MMO, World of Warcraft, and let's see if they released their full game model, with only new features in expansion packs and what I would presume you meant were minor fixes in patches:

World of Warcraft release:
Version 1.1: (Nov. 2004) Release bug fixes
Patch 1.2: (Dec. 2004) 5-man dungeon (maraudon), outdoor PvP area, holidy content
Patch 1.3: (March 2005) 5-man dungeon, outdoor raid bosses
Patch 1.4: (April 2005) PvP honor system
Patch 1.5: (June 2005) Two battlegrounds
Patch 1.6: (July 2005) Raid dungeon (BWL), Darkmoon faire
Patch 1.7: (September 2005): Raid dungeon (ZG), Battleground (AB)
Patch 1.8: (October 2005): Outdoor PvE bosses, Revamped questing in Silithus
Patch 1.9: (January 2006): Two raids (AQ20 & AQ 40)
Patch 1.10: (March 2006): Weather effects & Teir 0.5 armor set quests
Patch 1.11: (June 2006): Raid dungeon (Naxx)
Patch 1.12: (August 2006): Cross-realm BGs

Burning Crusade release (expansion):
2.0: (December thru Feb 2007) Preparation & release of TBC
Patch 2.1: (May 2007) Raid dungeon (BT)
Patch 2.2: (Sept 2007) Voice chat
Patch 2.3: (November 2007) Raid dungeon (ZA), guild banks, Season 3 Arena
Patch 2.4: (March 2008) Raid dungeon (Sunwell), 5-man (MGT) & Isle of QuelGÇÖDanas daily quests

Wrath of the Lich King release (expansion):
3.0: (Oct thru december 2008) Preparation & release of WotLK
Patch 3.1: (April 2009): Raid dungeon (Ulduar), Argent Tournament daily quests
Patch 3.2: (August 2009): Raid Dungeon (ToC), 5-man (ToC), PvP battleground (Isle)
Patch 3.3: (December 2009) Icecrown Citadel
Patch 3.3.5: (June 2010) Ruby Sanctum Raid

Cataclysm release (expansion):
4.0: (October 2010 to November 2010) Preparation & release of Cataclysm, world revamp
Patch 4.1: (April 2011) 5-man Dungeons (ZA, ZG)
Patch 4.2: (June 2011) New Firelands Raid
Patch 4.3: (Nov. 2011) 5-man Dungeons (CoT, ET, WoE), Raid Finder feature, Transmogrification item customization, Void Storage shared inventory, Darkmoon Faire Island zone, Dragon Soul Raid
Patch 4.3.2: (Jan. 2012) Cross-Server Raids

Mists of Pandaria release (expansion):
5.0: (Aug. 2012 to Oct. 2012) Preparation & release of Mists of Pandaria
Patch 5.1: (Nov. 2012) New world PVP conflict and factions, Brawler's guild pvp system, Battle Pet upgrade feature, new scenario challenges
Patch 5.2: (Mar. 2013) New zone Isle of Thunder, new Raid Throne of Thunder, New world bosses, new scenario challenges, Sunsong ranch iterations
Patch 5.3: (May 2013) New battleground (DG), New Arena, new scenario challenges, quest campaign escalation

(For those players who never looked at WoW, a "Raid" is a large 10-40 man dungeon to "kill the dragon")

* * *

So even looking back all the way to 2004, which I would argue hardly qualifies for "very new western take" on the "incomplete game model," you can clearly see that the original WoW release was shipped, much as modern MMOs are with a "ship-ready" version of the game that Blizzard's developer team then iterated on and released content via patches, with major content being "shipped" from expansions, as I explained in the OP. I'll admit that there's a trend toward larger, more content-rich patches, but the idea that a patch is used to introduce something new to the game is hardly new.

I just as easily could have pulled Eve Online's patch history (link) or EverQuest's (link) as well, and we'd have seen a similar development history, but the point is that MMOs development is done in a similar fashion (and EverQuest goes back to 1999). Now, if you were referring to the "freemium" sales model, where players get the product for a nominal cost and can opt for in-game upgrades with real-world funds, well I would agree that that sales model is somewhat new, but patches as a source of content for MMO players? Not so much.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2482	Posted - 2013.09.06 05:05:00 - [1] - Quote You don't know how normal MMOs are made. The "incomplete game" model is actually very new western take on the F2P model. New features used to come in expansion packs, not patches. Oh, and almost all "incomplete game" projects are flopping hard. Even PS2, which I love, and admittedly uses this same model (albeit now at 15 months of consistent new content) is not as financially stable as SOE hoped, which is probably why they are focusing on making the game more accessible (optimization so lower powered hardware and consoles will run it smoothly).
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2483	Posted - 2013.09.06 07:47:00 - [2] - Quote Vespasian Andendare wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: You don't know how normal MMOs are made. The "incomplete game" model is actually very new western take on the F2P model. New features used to come in expansion packs, not patches. Oh, and almost all "incomplete game" projects are flopping hard. Even PS2, which I love, and admittedly uses this same model (albeit now at 15 months of consistent new content) is not as financially stable as SOE hoped, which is probably why they are focusing on making the game more accessible (optimization so lower powered hardware and consoles will run it smoothly). Really? I think I have a pretty good idea about how these things work. How about some real-world facts? Let's look at patch history for what is arguably the largest MMO, World of Warcraft, and let's see if they released their full game model, with only new features in expansion packs and what I would presume you meant were minor fixes in patches: World of Warcraft release: Version 1.1: (Nov. 2004) Release bug fixes Patch 1.2: (Dec. 2004) 5-man dungeon (maraudon), outdoor PvP area, holidy content Patch 1.3: (March 2005) 5-man dungeon, outdoor raid bosses Patch 1.4: (April 2005) PvP honor system Patch 1.5: (June 2005) Two battlegrounds Patch 1.6: (July 2005) Raid dungeon (BWL), Darkmoon faire Patch 1.7: (September 2005): Raid dungeon (ZG), Battleground (AB) Patch 1.8: (October 2005): Outdoor PvE bosses, Revamped questing in Silithus Patch 1.9: (January 2006): Two raids (AQ20 & AQ 40) Patch 1.10: (March 2006): Weather effects & Teir 0.5 armor set quests Patch 1.11: (June 2006): Raid dungeon (Naxx) Patch 1.12: (August 2006): Cross-realm BGs Burning Crusade release (expansion): 2.0: (December thru Feb 2007) Preparation & release of TBC Patch 2.1: (May 2007) Raid dungeon (BT) Patch 2.2: (Sept 2007) Voice chat Patch 2.3: (November 2007) Raid dungeon (ZA), guild banks, Season 3 Arena Patch 2.4: (March 2008) Raid dungeon (Sunwell), 5-man (MGT) & Isle of QuelGÇÖDanas daily quests Wrath of the Lich King release (expansion): 3.0: (Oct thru december 2008) Preparation & release of WotLK Patch 3.1: (April 2009): Raid dungeon (Ulduar), Argent Tournament daily quests Patch 3.2: (August 2009): Raid Dungeon (ToC), 5-man (ToC), PvP battleground (Isle) Patch 3.3: (December 2009) Icecrown Citadel Patch 3.3.5: (June 2010) Ruby Sanctum Raid Cataclysm release (expansion): 4.0: (October 2010 to November 2010) Preparation & release of Cataclysm, world revamp Patch 4.1: (April 2011) 5-man Dungeons (ZA, ZG) Patch 4.2: (June 2011) New Firelands Raid Patch 4.3: (Nov. 2011) 5-man Dungeons (CoT, ET, WoE), Raid Finder feature, Transmogrification item customization, Void Storage shared inventory, Darkmoon Faire Island zone, Dragon Soul Raid Patch 4.3.2: (Jan. 2012) Cross-Server Raids Mists of Pandaria release (expansion): 5.0: (Aug. 2012 to Oct. 2012) Preparation & release of Mists of Pandaria Patch 5.1: (Nov. 2012) New world PVP conflict and factions, Brawler's guild pvp system, Battle Pet upgrade feature, new scenario challenges Patch 5.2: (Mar. 2013) New zone Isle of Thunder, new Raid Throne of Thunder, New world bosses, new scenario challenges, Sunsong ranch iterations Patch 5.3: (May 2013) New battleground (DG), New Arena, new scenario challenges, quest campaign escalation (For those players who never looked at WoW, a "Raid" is a large 10-40 man dungeon to "kill the dragon") * * * So even looking back all the way to 2004, which I would argue hardly qualifies for "very new western take" on the "incomplete game model," you can clearly see that the original WoW release was shipped, much as modern MMOs are with a "ship-ready" version of the game that Blizzard's developer team then iterated on and released content via patches, with major content being "shipped" from expansions, as I explained in the OP. I'll admit that there's a trend toward larger, more content-rich patches, but the idea that a patch is used to introduce something new to the game is hardly new. I just as easily could have pulled Eve Online's patch history (link) or EverQuest's (link) as well, and we'd have seen a similar development history, but the point is that MMOs development is done in a similar fashion (and EverQuest goes back to 1999). Now, if you were referring to the "freemium" sales model, where players get the product for a nominal cost and can opt for in-game upgrades with real-world funds, well I would agree that that sales model is somewhat new, but patches as a source of content for MMO players? Not so much. You have a serious problem with understanding the difference between content and mechanics. It is very new to release patches that change the way the game is played. That used to be nearly exclusively the difference between patches and expansions after all.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2484	Posted - 2013.09.06 11:21:00 - [3] - Quote Isaak Kaan'im wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: You have a serious problem with understanding the difference between content and mechanics. In your original post you talked about features and not content or mechanics. And features can be both and more. It is funny to see how you twist your own words to suit your opinion. But that's to be expected from grumpy old Noc. Yeah and i don't miss you in IRC :P I'm very snippy. Now get off my lawn. Looking in the dictionary I see there are alternate definitions (I exclusively use feature as facet, but I have now discovered the additional, much more generalized meaning of attraction). I now understand and apologize that I made a poor word choice that created confusion but the point still stands - selling games in a known non-functioning state is a very new phenomenon. "Content lite" is not the same thing as "incomplete game".