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OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
480
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Posted - 2013.09.05 05:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
ok im not the best English student but here goes bare with me.
i am a minmatar scout and also use the advaced gallente scout and here are some things ive noticed;
we need more slots for one, reason being is this:
our cpu/pg is so low especially on the minmatar (lowest in game) we cannot do our jobs
if we have a scanner, we cant use uplinks, if we cant do both then we cant sneak into enemy territory , scan and place a up link, we need a second equipment slot.
the gallente needs another high and the minmatar another low slot , heres why:
i have my profile dampening at level 4 and its been there since before the active scanner even came out, now i basically wasted a ton of points in the profile dampening because it will never work for a 2 low slot scout.
profile of a scout with maxed profile dampening is 30 db, a complex profile dampening mod reduces your profile by 7.5
the advanced scanner is 28 db, which means you always need a profile dampener to be under.
2 complex profile dampeners reduce the db to 15, the proto scanner is 15 db which mean a mini scout will never get under it and a gallente scout needs to use 3 low slots to get under it.
now this means that a mini scout wont be able to use the rest of its slots, you wont be able to fit 2 guns or a scanner or all your shields, the galente is now stuck with one slot to maybe use a pg or cpu mod to add guns, probably not a complex shield, and possibly no equipment or a greneade.
now this means we are possibly the slowest suits in the game with nothing useful in our equipment , and our shields and weapons are a mix match of basic gear.
lets say you forget the pd and want to speed tank, well if you want speed , and say drop up links and a gun on a mini proto scout, you will barely fit all shield slots, no grenade and your still running around with the health of a advanced suit and also have a fit with mix matched basic gear, maybe a proto nova knife but a militia smg, two complex shields, no equipment an maybe level one nades.
there are many horrible mix matched suits as a scout and any suit that has decent guns or shields needs a cpu chip or a pg chip.
not to mention the aim assist eats you alive as soon as your spotted and also the fact that our hit box or collision model has not been fixed and we die when the opposition isn't even shooting us.
in combinations of all fits i have tried to make work there simply isnt any combination that isn't a catch 22 situation, that cant be beat by a proto assault running kinetics and being faster, or a logistics suit that runs profile dampeners and scanners, and may also have a hacking speed bonus , because i now need, pd in my low slots or a cpu chip in my low slot, and i am officially slower than most suits.
our cpu / pg is way too low, our slot configuration is too weak and out dated to be of any use in this game with the multitude of game changes that have indirectly made our scout suits obsolete , not to mention all the weapon hit detection problems still occurring with nova knives and shot guns, plus our scan ranges even with skills are too close to other classes.
our stock db, should be at least 40
our stock speed should be increase or even make our shield regen be 45 instead of 40
our cpu and pg need to be increased and both scouts need another equipment slot to actually be scouts, i mean what is the point of running to the other side of the map with uplinks and no scanner? a logi can do that with 4 equipment slots and a car, even though he should be reviving team members and that job should be ours.
we need maybe a better hacking speed or a armor regen of +1 minmatar assault gets this bonus, so maybe the scout should have this bonus and maybe the gallente too or give them both some sort of quicker regen either shield or armor but they should both have a passive regeneration, other wise its back to the catch 22, need a armor rep, there goes your pd or speed or your equipment slot for a compact nano hive, now your a useless scout, damaged and far away from help, with no scanner or up links for a teammate to spawn in and help you....... see the catch 22 of this class?
nova knives need a fitting optimization skill , the cpu and pg is as high as a prototype smg or sg give or take a few, i mean there knives how much room can they really take?
even with core skills at 4 , explosives at 4 and weapon operations at 4 i need a cpu chip on almost every fit just to have complex shields knives and a gun and im still walking around with way under 400 total hp on almost either advanced or proto fits, and the proto fit only usefulness is 60 more shields and a tiny bit mor cpu/ pg for 50 000 isk mor than my advanced fit.
For every full blown scout to even survive now we need skills in almost everything on the skill tree for ex
the suit
a main weapon a side arm
core skill
operation weapon skills
optimization for weapons ( only we have alot of nk users that cant reduce the cpu / pg of this weapon)
endurance
biotics
kinetics
equipments, scanners, uplinks, explosives
electronics
dampeners
range
precision
not to mention shields and armor upgrades
plates or shield extention
for a full time scout the sp sink is huge!
my alt character that is being buit for the caldari scout when it comes out is a covenent suit, exil rifle, syndicate smg, enhanced shileds, costs 5000 isk and has under 2 million sp and doesnt need half of these skills to be successful in battle
ccp it took me a while to plan this message please look into all the variables, and my SCOUT BROTHERS please sign this and help me get the ball rolling on fixing our class
Thanks... OZ
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OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
483
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 06:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
THANKS GUYS, i didnt want to do it but enough is enough and i actually hate typing but somebody needed too, please spread the word we need everybody on here |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
488
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 06:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:I'm actually doing really well with
The dragonfly suit
Advance Scram P
Toxin SMG
Advance Active Scanner
Advance Kincat or Damp
That is literally my fit
its a dirt cheap fit and I'm getting 15/5 to 10/6 ratios pending on the map both solo and in squads.
The Crater map is terrible for scouts, but everything else is really working for me and how I play.
I still acknowledge that the scout is still disadvantaged especially compared to the Gal Logi (the new scout supreme), but scouts are actually viable from my viewpoint now.
Mind you there are more toys that I want for the scout, like cloaks, ewar, more sidearms, and the caldari scout, but the game play is definitely doable.
If you spent the sp on a racial scout instead of being a tourist with a free fit I think your opinion would be different. |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
496
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 11:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
LT SHANKS wrote:I am not a Scout nor do I play any Light frames, but I feel for you all.
/signed
Thanks brother we need it especially to run from faster an better rotating heavies, especially heavies with kbm |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
500
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 12:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:Make scouts not apear on scanners... or at least not stay "scanned" for so long
Signed tho
In order to avoid the 28 db scanner scouts need at least a level 3 or 4 passive profile dampening, a proto suit an a dampened on the suit, the mini scout will not beat the 15 db scanner if I've done the math right it will land exactly at 15 which is also the scan, an the gallente scout might reach under 15 with 3 dampened with very little left over to fit anything.
We should be able to get under 28 db without using mods or our slots should be re evaluated like mentioned above |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
522
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 14:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:OZAROW wrote:Oswald Rehnquist wrote:I'm actually doing really well with
The dragonfly suit
Advance Scram P
Toxin SMG
Advance Active Scanner
Advance Kincat or Damp
That is literally my fit
its a dirt cheap fit and I'm getting 15/5 to 10/6 ratios pending on the map both solo and in squads.
The Crater map is terrible for scouts, but everything else is really working for me and how I play.
I still acknowledge that the scout is still disadvantaged especially compared to the Gal Logi (the new scout supreme), but scouts are actually viable from my viewpoint now.
Mind you there are more toys that I want for the scout, like cloaks, ewar, more sidearms, and the caldari scout, but the game play is definitely doable. If you spent the sp on a racial scout instead of being a tourist with a free fit I think your opinion would be different. Tourist? I have played scout since the beginning and only scout on my toon, since I want the caldari scout I am not wasting it on the other two, instead I put them into point which would help my scout, if you miss allocated your points that is not on me. Also there is no way you are suggesting that a standard scout suit is actually better than the higher tiers. Its is not that scouts don't need love, I've made many threads on it, but scouts are indeed on better footing once you learn to adapt to the changes. Getting someones back now almost guarantees a kill, that was far from the case before hand. The scout is best at getting someones back and best of preventing others at finding his with the use of the active scanner and scan resists.
I'm quite aware but if your not a scout now then there's a huge difference, CPU an pg is huge, I have 18 million in my scout an maybe 2 million spent on guns an suits I tried but didn't need but other than that it's spent correctly.
I have the right gear but as mentioned in the op the scout is lacking slots an suit power, an that's not on us that's on ccp, with all the game changes scoutsneed to be brought up to par.
I'm a good scout as many of us are, but the problem is so many of us are really good with poor suits n underpowered conditions I'm afraid that if they fix our weapons an buff our suits, those of us that are good now will be extremely scary later an will make the community freak out.
We've been fighting a up Jill battle for so long, we're gonna be monsters if our stuff ever works correctly, because the community is used to us working poorly, I have no clue how they will react once they find out what we can do once we can actually fit complex gear on our suits. |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
522
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 15:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Crow Splat wrote:/signed
An extra equipment, more speed, tuning aim assist a bit. All things that would help the scout a lot.
Even though I think you may want to figure your math on dampeners. If they work as you say and each dampener reduces the same amount of profile then all you really need to be unscannable is complex damps and a suit with 4 lows. I believe the way it works is the first reduces you down to ~22.5. The second is based off that nnumber and takes you to ~18. And the third drops you to ~12.
At least it should work that way or scout suits just got even more useless since anyone with 4 lows could stack 4 dampeners for 100% profile reduction.
As far as I know I've been doing it like this because I heard ccp does math weird do instead of adding all together it's one at a time.
I'm a mini scout an was before the scanner even came out so to my knowledge if it works this way a mini can't beat the 15 db scanner, which I think it has to so correct me if I'm wrong because I really wanna know how this is done because if it really works how I think it does we need it fixed because scouts need to get under it.
45 stock x proto suit 25% = 11.25 = 33.75 db
33.75 suit x 10% level 5 pd passive bonus = 3.375 = 30.375 db
30.375 suit x 25 % complex pd = 7.59375 = 22.78125 db
22.78125 suit x 25 % complex pd = 5.6953125 = 17.0859375 db
That leaves a mini scout that was silly enough to spend sp to level five thinking 2 complex was a good idea with a db of 17.0859375, then they made the active scanner so we can't get under it but a logistics can!
This is bad!
Hence we need a dev on this ASAP to clarify if the math is correct |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
522
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 15:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Beyond Creation wrote:OZAROW wrote:
2 complex profile dampeners reduce the db to 15, the proto scanner is 15 db which mean a mini scout will never get under it now and a gallente scout needs to use 3 low slots to get under it.
The proto scanner is actually 18 db
The duv is 15, I believe it's the bottom scanner in the market unless I was reading it wrong but I'm almost positive it's 15 at least one of them is most of the rest are 28 I believe |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
531
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 16:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Crow Splat wrote:Beyond Creation wrote:Go in the market and look. Its 18 db. So if max dampening is 17 you can just get under it.
Duvolle Focused Active Scanner 15 db Im looking at it right now.
Thank you I thought I was right, this means scouts need a fix ASAP , last thing we need is 600 HP ghost logis with shotguns |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
531
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Posted - 2013.09.05 16:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Crow Splat wrote:Those look like the numbers I got too OZ. As it is right now the minmitar can't beat the best resolution scanner. You need Gallente for that. AFAIK the Gallente scout and Gallente Logi with max skills is the only way to become unscannable right now.
I agree that the logi needs an adjustment for sure. I think that if you're going to give Minmitar scouts the ability to beat all scanners then you are going to have to give Gallente an extra high slot or something. Right now it's one of 2 things that we can do better than our Minmitar cousins and both of those are questionable when you account for what we give up.
Ya I mentioned all that in the first post because I have both suits , miniscout proto an gallente scout 1, they both need to be redone, two equipment, better base stats, high for gallente an a low for mini an increased core CPU pg an everything else in the main post, this needs to be fixed before they create the new scout races.
I totally agree sir, an thanks for having my back on the scanner +10 |
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OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
546
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 23:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Smooth Assassin wrote:Ok now CCP i have been seeing alot of proto's with heavy armor and shields now i am a scout and i can't nova knife them if they have all these armor. Scouts are the only weakest class even weaker than MLT and alot of people were looking forward to the new map as a scout but as aim assist comes along everyone is tanking shield and armor and i barely see any scouts apart from me.
One more thing CCP why is it so hard to get kenetic catalyzers? it takes about one million SP just to get an enchanced kenetic catalyzer i mean cmon CCP you can do better for scouts before you lose them forever.
Maybe another equipment or just buff the natural scan and how can i live with these low CPU and PG when i'm using kenetic catalyzers i'm sick of this!!!
Signed.
I ll be on tonight say 6/7 hours before downtime add me to contacts an send me a message an we ll go stabbing together I ll see if I can help explain a few things with your load out an maybe that will help, then I can help you figure out where you need your sp the most |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
550
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 01:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:OZAROW wrote:
I have the right gear but as mentioned in the op the scout is lacking slots an suit power, an that's not on us that's on ccp, with all the game changes scoutsneed to be brought up to par.
I find the lack of slots appropriate for a "lightweight high speed suit". But the lack of power is unacceptible, when many of the modules you'd want to run as a scout, require lots o power. For example... kinetic catalysers. Usualy, militia gear is power hungry, and higher grade stuff uses less. Or, worst case, there are two higher-grade options, one of which is a "lowpower" one. That ain't so for kincats. Thepower progression goes: 11, 10, 12, 15 That aint right. An "advanced" scout suit can barely fit 2 of those, and ONE weapon, and maaybe something else. Forget about two weapons and a grenade, or two weapons and something like an uplink. It shouldnt take a proto 70k ISK suit, to run 2x"basic" kincats alongside standard equipment.
Ya it's pretty brutal especially if you have your core up an weapon operations an ur running around with under 300 shield , proto knives an a militia smg an a computer chip just to maybe have a low level equipment in it.
Whatever happened to the A B scouts with 6 slots an one had two equipment an one gun an the other had two guns an one equipment, at least then you could do your job an fit things on your suit.
Having only 5 slots at proto when you have 4 at advanced for a extra 1.7million sp an all it really does is give you a computer chip slot to maybe fit every slot for 50 000 more isk a pop it's outrageous! |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
552
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 03:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well a proto logistics can basically skill so many things to proto an have complex shields, complex armor an reps, complex equipment an a complex gun with no chips added, an we are basically counter logis out there destroying everything an replacing it with our own, so we need dampeners since our db is only five under a logi or assault, we need uplinks an scanners to sneak behind enemy lines, our knives take a lot of CPU , speed mods **** our system output, if I used a proto shotgun on a proto fit an speed mods an shields , I can't fit a side arm, grenade or equipment, to even come close we have to proficiency 4 a sg then crank points into optimization, level 5 engendering an electronics an max both light an side arm opperation, an explosives to get a grenade on, plus you have to level 5 profile dampening just for the passive 10% then you gotta level 5 endurance to open kinetics then level 5 those, then you have to up your hacking speed so cru spawns don't get you, then you gotta open uplinks, an scanners and you can't even forget about doing shields an armor upgrades plus the extensions , all this just to die in 4 shots from a aim assisted automatic point an shoot!
We put more points into our fits than anyone in this game for a form of survival that doesn't exist because we can't fit any top notch gear on our suits all at once, with lack of slots at proto level and the lack of pg CPU , the only reason to level five our suits is for the knive an profile reductions.
For 50000 more isk an one slot it's not worth even running proto or investing in it.
A mini ninja should keep the suit at 3 then proficiency 5 their knives it's cheaper than going 5 on the suit an 3 on the blades to get the 25% damage then max out your suit core skills an level up your blades .
They never balanced the rewards for the sp sink, since all your gear after you invest over 20 million sp is still gonna be mismatched on your suit. |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
552
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 03:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
AfroBubblesX wrote:Signed
Have you ever noticed how devs NEVER respond to a Scout thread? They respond to tankers and QQers in general, but never to scouts - I think its because those of us who remain are so used to the punishment they know they can leave us on the backburner. I DEMAND at least one extra slot in the next release and further improvements down the road.
I hear ya brother totally ignored month after month, I think there scared to fix them because even though our suits suck were good with them periodically, because the people that are scouts aren't new, we've always been scouts do we find a way to adapt, there probably concerned because we didn't abandon scouts we just kept pumping points into them, so when they do fix them we are gonna be bloody dangerous an EVERYBODY KNOWS IT! |
OZAROW
WarRavens
League of Infamy
589
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 07:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Morathi III wrote:Signed
Only for both proto scout
STD and ADV are fine
A little more CPU, 1 low slot for mini, 1 high slot for gal and your db changes. Thats it, disagree with your extra equipment slot
Pc scout should have 2 slots only because the sp sink for a scout to do well is way more than any other suits sp sink, we should be able to lone wolf with a scanner an uplinks an not be forced to drop speed an shields for electronic mods |
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