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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
821
   |
Posted - 2013.09.04 22:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
How is Speed tanking as of 1.4? this AA and better hit detection really must have hurt the Scout's performance |
Dust LAG-LAG-LAG-LAG 514
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2013.09.04 22:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
speed tanking is dead
aimbot aimbot everywhere |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3637
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 23:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Scouts are (usually) fine when they're playing stealthy instead of going head-on.
Speed tanking provides VERY little survivability advantage, but because sprinting doesn't raise your profile, it can help you to get around into a flanking position without being detected. The lack of squad vision also helps Scouts for this role.
We got buffed and nerfed, but with the inability to share our own vision unless we fill our equipment slot on an expensive piece of kit, I think the final balance is nerf slightly more than buff.
It also doesn't help that scanning seems a bit screwy at times. As a Scout, I've occasionally had Heavies appear right next to me when I turn around, and as a Medium Frame suit, I've been able to sneak up on a Scout from a position where he couldn't possibly have failed to see me as a HUD marker or on his minimap. |
Dust Project 514
Pistol King
268
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 23:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's not helpful in a fight unless you in an area with a ton of walls to use as cover. Otherwise it's just a faster mode of transport. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8017
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Speed is out, stealth is in. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
473
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 23:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Speed tanking is gone. Light frames have been forced to do the same as HAV's: snipe. Oh wait, apparently, snipers suck too..... |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8018
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Speed tanking is gone. Light frames have been forced to do the same as HAV's: snipe. Oh wait, apparently, snipers suck too.....
Landed on three of them this morning. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
476
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Speed is out, stealth is in.
Tried stealth tanking, didn't work before, still doesn't. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
822
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Speed is out, stealth is in.
Still Speed should be an available form of tanking correct? |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
476
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 23:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Speed tanking is gone. Light frames have been forced to do the same as HAV's: snipe. Oh wait, apparently, snipers suck too..... Landed on three of them this morning.
Can you elaborate? I seriously have no ******* clue what you just said  |
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crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1657
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
There is no aim bot learn the system and it's easier to speed tank
Speed tanking is all I do
The issue is you need 3 complex speed mods to make it work. 3 speed mods used to give 12 sprint speed now it's only 10.7 so that kinda sucks. Don't believe the hype, drop sprint to throw the sticky aim off you, make 20 degree changes and duck from cover to cover!
radar no longer picks you up get behind people, drop RE, blow them up! Also knifes are effective now! |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
822
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107513
Found something interesting with scouts |
Billi Gene
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
401
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Speed is out, stealth is in. Still Speed should be an available form of tanking correct?
not EvE style speed tanking, where your onboard tracking systems are what is being tanked, not unless you are talking about vs an HAV
Mercs can't be speed tanked now that heavies have the same turn rate as everyone else. |
Billi Gene
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
401
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Speed tanking is gone. Light frames have been forced to do the same as HAV's: snipe. Oh wait, apparently, snipers suck too..... Landed on three of them this morning. Can you elaborate? I seriously have no ******* clue what you just said
picture a drop ship.....
|
Green Living
0uter.Heaven
826
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
I speed tank with my Amarr Assault. I have since respec. I can confirm that speed tanking is a lot harder with aim assist. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
476
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Green Living wrote:I speed tank with my Amarr Assault. I have since respec. I can confirm that speed tanking is a lot harder with aim assist.
........... I don't even................  |
Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
284
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Would someone define speed tanking? When you guys say it I picture the people who move in little circles or strafed left to right in the open and couldn't be hit even if the hip fire crosshairs where directly on their chest. If that is what speed tanking is, it deserves to be gone it is an exploit of crap hit detection. However, if you mean someone who moves fast enough so their opponent cannot get the crosshairs on them, I'm sure those that were skilled with it will still be skilled. I need for work to get over with so I can try out my Minmatar assault alt later and see how 1.4 treats her. |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
875
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:How is Speed tanking as of 1.4?
IWS is dead on ... "Speed is out, stealth is in."
Former Speed Tanker here. Ran a 10.73 m/s GalScout for the good part of Uprising (1.0 thru 1.3). It made for a decent pub performance on occasion, but no where near Chromosome standards. It doesn't work at all in 1.4.
The effectiveness of speed tanking took its first big hit in 1.2. Extensive testing by the Scout Community and its supporters (namely Aeon Amadi) demonstrated that the game was having a hard time keeping up with high speeds. We believe performance limitations to be the reasoning behind Scouts being slowed down to near-medium speeds.
The aim-assisted conditions of 1.4 have rendered Speed Tanking useless.
Speed is still good for getting in and getting away, but it will no longer offer you any protection at all if/when you're under fire.
- Shotty GoBang
(17.5M SP Gallente Scout) |
Grief PK
D3LTA FORC3
Inver Brass
41
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Scouts are (usually) fine when they're playing stealthy instead of going head-on.
Speed tanking provides VERY little survivability advantage, but because sprinting doesn't raise your profile, it can help you to get around into a flanking position without being detected. The lack of squad vision also helps Scouts for this role.
We got buffed and nerfed, but with the inability to share our own vision unless we fill our equipment slot on an expensive piece of kit, I think the final balance is nerf slightly more than buff.
It also doesn't help that scanning seems a bit screwy at times. As a Scout, I've occasionally had Heavies appear right next to me when I turn around, and as a Medium Frame suit, I've been able to sneak up on a Scout from a position where he couldn't possibly have failed to see me as a HUD marker or on his minimap.
Can you please post your ranking on the Scout list before posting this 'factual' information about speed tanking for Scouts |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8021
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Speed is out, stealth is in. Still Speed should be an available form of tanking correct?
I won't disagree with this statement but let me remind you how overly effective speed tanking was abused to hell in Eve online. Speed should be a factor in survival not a sole reason of survival.
A normal battleship in eve travels about 100-200 meters a second.
At the height of speed tanking FOTM in eve, a specific battleship went 14km/s which is faster than any known interceptor at the time. |
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Grief PK
D3LTA FORC3
Inver Brass
41
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Speed is out, stealth is in.
Correction ... Speed is out, stealth is uselsess |
First Prophet
Unkn0wn Killers
932
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Posted - 2013.09.04 23:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dust LAG-LAG-LAG-LAG 514 wrote:speed tanking is dead
|
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
875
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Posted - 2013.09.05 00:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Would someone define speed tanking? If you mean someone who moves fast enough so their opponent cannot get the crosshairs on them, I'm sure those that were skilled with it will still be skilled.
To me, speed tanking means foregoing HP in exchange for the ability to reach cover when detected and/or under fire.
By this definition, speed tanking is dead.
Aim assist will get you no matter how fast you move or how well you zig-zag while attempting to evade fire. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1131
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Posted - 2013.09.05 00:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
My crystal is wrong far too often. I've dropped about 2 mil in min assault and bottles.
I still like being fast, but that suit doesn't last long enough to find cover.
My trusty scanner helps, but it's a different world out there now. I like it though and I was extremely skeptical.
IWS, please push for scanners to get some sub skills to boost effectiveness and/or perhaps the DS modules to do so.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1131
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 00:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:Would someone define speed tanking? If you mean someone who moves fast enough so their opponent cannot get the crosshairs on them, I'm sure those that were skilled with it will still be skilled. To me, speed tanking means foregoing HP in exchange for the ability to reach cover when detected and/or under fire. By this definition, speed tanking is dead. Aim assist will get you no matter how fast you move or how well you zig-zag while attempting to evade fire.
Try using the scanners. If you put two speed guys together to place uplinks and scan down objectives I think it would be a nice tactic. |
Mieli Sydan
Ultramarine Corp
3
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Posted - 2013.09.05 00:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Would someone define speed tanking? When you guys say it I picture the people who move in little circles or strafed left to right in the open and couldn't be hit even if the hip fire crosshairs where directly on their chest. If that is what speed tanking is, it deserves to be gone it is an exploit of crap hit detection. However, if you mean someone who moves fast enough so their opponent cannot get the crosshairs on them, I'm sure those that were skilled with it will still be skilled. I need for work to get over with so I can try out my Minmatar assault alt later and see how 1.4 treats her.
It's generally a combination of hit and run (flank, get a few quick shots/kills, then GTFO before the rest of the pack knows you were there or can draw a bead on you) and being able to evade fire for short periods of time when you're detected (hopefully long enough reach cover or take down your opponents). 1.4 feels like an end to speed tanking because we all took a 10% "fix" to strafing speeds and the current state of the SG makes it less effective (and reliable) than an AR/SMG/HMG/etc at CQC distances. The shotgun is supposed to get a fix to its hit detection, but it still won't make speed tanking any more viable in 1.4, because the HP tradeoff you make when choosing a scout (or Minmatar Assault) suit and KinCats is no longer balanced out by the defensive advantages, since we're currently much easier to hit in close quarters due to reduced movement speed, the current state of aim assist, and what I would consider overly generous hit detection. We're currently too easy to hit in CQC and even easier to hit when trying to run for cover. Speed tanking is one half of the scout/shotgun equation (the other half being stealth) and it really feels like an unintended casualty of what are generally positive improvements for everybody else. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3647
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 00:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Grief PK wrote:Can you please post your ranking on the Scout list before posting this 'factual' information about speed tanking for Scouts
As soon as you provide me with a reason why being "ranked" somehow matters more than my experience playing DUST since closed beta, and the fact that I'm posting examples of personal experience in the new build to support my conclusions.
When you've read the relevant materials and seen the results in game, come back with your own conclusions, and we'll have something to discuss. Until then, please hold off on the pointless ad hominems. Thanks. |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
807
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Posted - 2013.09.05 00:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:How is Speed tanking as of 1.4? this AA and better hit detection really must have hurt the Scout's performance
Im going to use my Minmatar assault.
As it is it runs pretty much as fast ( -0.5 sprinting speed compared to minmatar scout)
But have 325+ shields , 1HP armor regen and a 100 bullet Ishi SMG.
nuff said.... |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles
69
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Posted - 2013.09.05 00:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:How is Speed tanking as of 1.4? this AA and better hit detection really must have hurt the Scout's performance
Speed tanking and evading is no longer part of DUST 514.
Every vet has done full out shield and armor health point fits... its now just a game by numbers... i have 900 health you have 600.. we both press LDS i win with 300ish health left.
This is dust now and it makes me so........ speechless
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knight of 6
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
245
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Posted - 2013.09.05 00:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
firstly the scout is really really bad right now. that said speed and stealth are out but if you're clever you can use cover sheild rechargers and armor reps to your advantage and kill guys 1v1. but this tactic requires that all your slots pg and cpu so good luck. |
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
827
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Posted - 2013.09.05 01:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Would someone define speed tanking? When you guys say it I picture the people who move in little circles or strafed left to right in the open and couldn't be hit even if the hip fire crosshairs where directly on their chest. If that is what speed tanking is, it deserves to be gone it is an exploit of crap hit detection. However, if you mean someone who moves fast enough so their opponent cannot get the crosshairs on them, I'm sure those that were skilled with it will still be skilled. I need for work to get over with so I can try out my Minmatar assault alt later and see how 1.4 treats her.
The latter |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2669
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Posted - 2013.09.05 01:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Speed is out, stealth is in.
Lmfao, Aurum/Prototype Active Scanner will pick up any Scout that doesn't have profile dampeners, even with all skills level 5.
Speed tanking is dead
Stealth tanking is dead
Scout is dead.
No-one listened to a word Aeon said despite showing all the necessary evidence in his blog.
http://blindmanmoon.blogspot.com/2013/08/perfecting-roles-active-scanners.html |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3651
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 01:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Lmfao, Aurum/Prototype Active Scanner will pick up any Scout that doesn't have profile dampeners, even with all skills level 5.
With the drawbacks the particular "pick up everything" Active Scanner had last time I checked the stats, that should be fair enough.
Of course, what ISN'T fair is that someone apparently managed to build a Logi that's invisible to that same Scanner.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107629&find=unread |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8025
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 03:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Not everyone runs a scanner. |
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