Aighun
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
869
   |
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Sharing as much information with your player base as early and as clearly and as patiently as possible is one of the best means of maintaining control of the tone of the dialogue between players and makers, and also go a long ways to ensure that dialogue continues to grow and evolve in an effectual and rewarding fashion. If they show us we are all in this together from the get go we can all get more done and have a better time doing so.
Hey, I know you (the CPM) are constantly hammering home this point, and after the recent upheavals in the forums post patch I want to say I am right there with you. I often despise the forums as much as anyone and there really is no way to stamp out terrible posting, but if things are going to get better I think it is incumbent upon CCP to step up and take on the role of the adult in the playpen. Or, umm, sandbox. And not one of the combatants.
Hope everyone is weathering the siege. Only had my torch and pitchfork out for a while yesterday. Good times, good times. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
1888
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 06:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:
I think it is incumbent upon CCP to step up and take on the role of the adult in the playpen. Or, umm, sandbox. And not one of the combatants.
I think this is the wrong mindset.
Historically, over-moderation just leads to the perception of company tyranny and almost always leads to more discourse than before the moderation effort began. Along a similar line, I have never seen a community team taking an authoritative stance that has resulted in a well behaved community, or that community team being well loved by the playerbase at large.
Both points can be expanded to include an entire company and remain relevant.
In order to win over the hearts and minds of players and change the tone of the forums, CCP must first change their own. "Talk more" is a loaded point, tbh. Yes, they need to communicate with us. But the difference between frequency and efficiency & tone is everything. They don't need to tell their entire staff to post daily with meaningless quips like Logibro and Mintchip do. They just need to make more down-to-earth posts, toned with respect and treating the players as peers, not as underlings in some non-existent pyramid of control and smugness.
Logibro is the key example, here. He approaches the players as peers, and easily comes off as 'one of the guys' as the entire playerbase knows he was a pretty well known player before he was hired, and (mostly) retains his humility and stuck true to his roots of first and foremost being a bro to the community. This is what the entire structure of CCP needs to learn and emulate. What is important is not how /often/ you engage your community... The important bit is the /how/ you engage with your community.
The entire game industry treats their customers like mentally disabled vermin who only exist to feed them money, and gamer nerds are sick of it and despise the companies that treat them so. (See: EA being voted worst company in the world two years running)
What people want more than anything is honesty, and humility. They don't want a company that comes off as haughty. They want a company that will give it to them straight. They want a company that will treat them with respect, and if given will respond in kind. Gone is the age when the majority of gamers were mostly children. Now is the age where many of those children who grew up with a NES in their living room have grown into intelligent adults, and look in vain towards companies to recognize and engage with them as such. Yet, the majority of companies out there (CCP included) still refuse to see the intelligence in their players, and treat them as though they were still inferior children.
CCP needs to
- Address players as peers, not as underlings - Treat players with respect, never talking down to them.
- Assume their customers are (mostly) intelligent capable people, and when communicating with informative posts always assume they can (or have the capability to) understand the nitty gritty. Offer an explanation for the layman if felt necessary but never 'dumb down' a post, as players find this insulting. The devil is in the details, and if you don't include the details for the sake of simplicity.... key points can easily be overlooked by all.
- Never take a defensive, reactionary stance to player discontent. (I won't expand on this as I've bitched CCP out in private over this enough)
And in turn, the Playerbase needs to
- Cut CCP some slack ; I know they are terrible at this communication thing, but we need to help each other here. If things are ever going to get better.
- Discourage the mentality of being banned from the forums as being a 'badge of honor'
- Confine shitposting to the locker room and war room forum subsections. It's okay to be a jerk in the right places. Being a jerk everywhere doesn't help anyone.
- Continue to provide excellent, well-thought feedback. Despite the perception of being ignored all this time, if we want CCP to change... They cannot be able to look to us and say "Well, the players are being little *****, we're supposed to listen to THEM?" (Not saying they do, but I think this illustrates the point) If we want respect and maturity from CCP, we've got to give as good as we expect to receive. We cannot truly complain about CCP not taking the players seriously if we don't have strong ground to stand on. We always must be the strong link in the feedback chain, for that process to be truly valuable and desired by CCP.
TL:DR
CCP needs to learn how to talk to their community, just as we need to learn to talk to them (AND each other) in a way that is efficient, timely, and actionable. This is a bridge that requires both sides to build in order for it to function. Only then can we have peace on these forums. Only then can CCP take their rightful place as a beloved hero in the gaming industry. |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
871
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 14:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Quote:
I think it is incumbent upon CCP to step up and take on the role of the adult in the playpen. Or, umm, sandbox. And not one of the combatants.
I think this is the wrong mindset. ... What people want more than anything is honesty, and humility. They don't want a company that comes off as haughty. They want a company that will give it to them straight. They want a company that will treat them with respect, and if given will respond in kind. Gone is the age when the majority of gamers were mostly children. Now is the age where many of those children who grew up with a NES in their living room have grown into intelligent adults, and look in vain towards companies to recognize and engage with them as such. Yet, the majority of companies out there (CCP included) still refuse to see the intelligence in their players, and treat them as though they were still inferior children.
That sentence was half joking. A lot of that post was meant to be humorous. But I think you misinterpreted that particular sentence, perhaps even the entire post? Everything you then ascribe to being the "adult in the playpen" I would say typifies combatant.
The entire point of that maybe overly ironic post was basically everything you then went on to write. So I think we are saying the same thing. Only I want with irony, and you want with exposition. Yes, lording it over people usually has the opposite effect that you intend, things just get more hostile and out of hand the more you try to put a lid on it. On the other hand, if you share with people and include them as a part of what you are doing as early on and as often as possible (and when and how much is something CCP will have to determine as far as Dust 514 goes) it usually helps to avoid conflict and crises from the get go.
By "adult" I did not mean petty dictator or prison warden. Part of being an adult is knowing who and what you are, that gives you the ability to accept others for who and what they are. Part of being an adult is accepting the very good possibility that you might not always know best. One of the most grown up and productive ways that you can interact with others as an adult is, as you pointed out, with honesty and humility. And part of being an adult is always striving to do the right thing, no matter what anyone else around you is or isn't doing. And even when a literal adult is given the task of caring for literal children the best thing they can do is to treat the kids with respect, understanding, and patience.
My point wasn't that the forums need to go into lock down and get the **** moderated out of them. And I wasn't suggesting that CCP owe us anything like a daily quip from every staff member...
What I was saying is that it doesn't really matter what happens on the forums. Someone or other will always act out on an internet forum. But that CCP can do a lot of good by setting the tone of the conversation. And by being as inclusive as possible. |