DUST Search - [Feedback] Aim Assist is Too Strong

Jathniel wrote:

I'll be Devil's Advocate here. The aim assist is decent. This does in fact, help players that don't aim that well. Which is good.
At the same time, the aim assist puts everyone on POTENTIALLY equal-footing. So using cover, and being smart on ground movements is actually vital now.
1.3 and before a couple of ace players could just walk side-by-side in the open, and just kill every noob in their path, now those noobs are able to kill them.
By helping everyone's aim, the matches have been more fun. You guys have GOT to admit that much. Getting a team of blueberries, that can actually hold their own, Aim Assist or not...

Every match I have done in 1.4 so far, has been amazingly fun, and my faith in this game has been just that much more restored. So much so, that I am now an EVE player as well. At the time of this writing, I am using EVE's ingame browser on one monitor, and playing DUST on the other.... 1.4 was a success, barring some bothersome bugs like not being able to deploy your full squad... and that will be fixed in a few days tops.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.09.04 17:38:00 - [1] - Quote Wow, what an excellent topic of debate: In the typical FPS there is a value and function of "Aim Assist", and the function is geared at helping individual acheivement during combat. But in Dust (EVE Online's extension) we are being introduced to a weird "innovative" game that's confronting "typical" FPS rules, and in so many ways seems to be trying to get us AWAY from the individual-acheivements mindset (often lavishly rewarding more SP/WP for carrying out squad orders and resussing clone-reserves than busting caps in heads). Yes, the new "assist" you're describing will feel more "absurd" to the players who spend countless hours in an FPS with the priority on their Individual Acheivement of kills... and is more likely to be enjoyed by players who don't have the time to practice their aiming, or those players who spend more time as artificers rather than leaderboard gunslingers. ----If Dust is going to be an EVE-mindset game, SHOULD it design its "assists" to further allow INDIVIDUALS to excel in marksmanship, or SHOULD it make marksmanship an UN-individual, automatic thing that leaves us with fewer and fewer ways to acheive anything on the battlefield as individual wolves? ---- I will say that in every FPS where I have surpassed the marksmanship of other players, my desire to work WITH other players became trivial (...so much easier for me to do this mission on my own than to drag you others behind me, you'll only slow me down). ...This mindset seems COUNTER to what EVE and Dust are about. I will also say that (with or without aim assist so far), Dust is the first and only FPS I've played where I'm earning more "points" consistently from ASSISTED-kills rather than individuallly-acheived kills, and keep repeating it! I am now VERY aware that, in every kill-opportunity I step into, I seek to "help that buddy shred the armour off this sentinel enemy", or "draw this enemy enforcer over to where three of us can gang-kill him". I have NEVER felt this win-by-sticking-with-others way about tactics in the typical FPSs, and these days I think less about leaderboards than I do about newpaper obituraries. I dare to wonder if it is a GOOD thing that an innovatively-friendly aim assist makes some of us (I suspect the "top marksman achievers" amongst us) want to threaten a walk-out because now OUR clones face an almost dead-EVEN killing field. Walk-out if you wish, don't just THREATEN to walk out. But maybe it's GOOD that (in my corny attempt at EVE lore) the far-advanced tracking sensors in our New Eden dropsuits make it so automatically easy for even Mr. Magoo's ancestors to duck-shoot each other,.. so that in the end the only way to win the battlefield is to fully commit to new battlefield techniques that require HELP FROM OTHERS to accomplish. If Dust is an experiment to re-define that word "FPS", then I WANT my old FPS-assumpitons/requirements to be challenged and regularly opposed by this game. I would be interesting to see what would happen when being the best marksman just won't matter anymore. This game is teaching me some things I only THOUGHT I knew, ...and I want to learn some more. I don't want them to change a thing about the 1.4's new aim-assist. Not yet.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2013.09.04 18:18:00 - [2] - Quote Thanks for the reply, Jack. That news is good to me. It implies that for Newberry's it's not a complete replacement to aiming... it's a step up in the right direction that may help them ramp up the necessary "aiming" development faster, and more quickly move to the arguably more battle-winning tactics to learn (awareness, coop, comm, covering and ressussing buddies). And since there's a little lag in it, it can "semi-nerf" our gunslinger skills just enough that we have to give less confidence to our gun, and re-consider the value of some of our modules (dampeners, scanners) and re-consider the value of those "blue-berries" we've been puting down and leaving behind to get killed on their own all the time. This "aim assist" could be one of the most innovative components brought to Dust so far.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:26:00 - [3] - Quote Jathniel wrote: I'll be Devil's Advocate here. The aim assist is decent. This does in fact, help players that don't aim that well. Which is good. At the same time, the aim assist puts everyone on POTENTIALLY equal-footing. So using cover, and being smart on ground movements is actually vital now. 1.3 and before a couple of ace players could just walk side-by-side in the open, and just kill every noob in their path, now those noobs are able to kill them. By helping everyone's aim, the matches have been more fun. You guys have GOT to admit that much. Getting a team of blueberries, that can actually hold their own, Aim Assist or not... Every match I have done in 1.4 so far, has been amazingly fun, and my faith in this game has been just that much more restored. So much so, that I am now an EVE player as well. At the time of this writing, I am using EVE's ingame browser on one monitor, and playing DUST on the other.... 1.4 was a success, barring some bothersome bugs like not being able to deploy your full squad... and that will be fixed in a few days tops. (Jathniel, Bravo. And you havn't been DevilsAdvocate... you've been "DemoCraticate") As I said in my previous post, WHAT A GREAT TOPIC to DEBATE. And congrats to everyone who has posted here courteously and with class (pro or con my view). There are too many of you to name you all, but more than just Jathniel expressed great POVs in this thread. I have played with the new "aim assist" for the past 24 hours (STILL too short a time to pass a strong judgment, in my opinion, but ok). Observations are correct that it is NOT an across-the-board helper; that it is not ABSURDLY easy to make kills (except for the already superior marksmen); that is easily rendered no-help-at-all (by rough controller thumbers); and it's INITIAL effects are surpising: --Newberrys feel more confident about struggling through their first hours in this game. --Some players who think of ourselves as respectable VETS, are realizing we so exploited our talent as the faster gun that for months we've left ourselves poor at utilizing cover, situation-awareness, and helpful use of the random friendlies around us. --Some players who think of themselves as respectable VETS, are realizing they are really just run-n-gunners (or the famous pogo-stick jumpers)...and the new "assist" is a threat to both classic FPS-owning techniques. --This player saw a ZERO drop in her own deaths, an considerable boost in Assisted Kills, a minor rise in direct kills, AND AN IMMENSE increase in FUN! I can't count the number of times I was able to avoid the new 1.4 assisted enemy fire simply by slipping behind the cover I am accustomed to using. It required more alertness and response, but I wasn't losing clones any more than previously. I can't count the number of times I was able to tactically SUPPRESS a distance enemy with my 1.4 aim assist (which was exactly what was required to buy my friendlies a couple of seconds they need to safe dash to the null point). I can't count the number of times I was miraculously resussed at the last possible second by a random friendly because his buddies could confidently give him covering fire long enough to nano-inject me while under a hailstorm of enemy rounds...(normally I would bleed out because friends dare not expose themselves trying to reach me). (I try to keep in mind, some of those friendlies may have been just 16 years old...so God Bless their heroism!!) Last night was challenging and FUN, just by making everyone a little more equally confident that they could do something. CCP very early on expressed, their purpose of the Dropsuit and its dynamics was to give a player just enough confidence that he's willing to take a little more risk under fire on the battlefield (this is a counterbalance to our fear of losing ISK and assets during deaths). I suggest we accept the 1.4 aiming assist as an appropriately dynamic of Dropsuit warfare... hard to get used to, not at all like a classic FPS assister, but VERY in keeping with Dust's constantly shifting weapon-vs-skill powerplay, and like Jathniel suggested, MORE INVITING and RE-INSPIRING THAN ALL GET OUT!