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Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
56
   |
Posted - 2013.08.31 21:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I know there are people out there that think a armor tank should be faster because gallente have mastered armor tech so they can move faster (not the case with infantry!).
To me this is insane, the way it works now with infantry is that the shields have far more mobility. Something changing 1.4 but that's the point isn't it.
All that armor weighing you down reduces movement speed.
The shields got nothing weighing them down, so max speed.
Though with vehicles the opposite is true.
Armor is much faster then shields
Shields much slower
To make the statement true of armor tankers, they would need less damage resist which is compensated with speed.
I think a lot of the imbalance comes from the fact that the roles of the 2 tanks are loosely set but not fully utilized.
Speed - hit and run
Resist - Armor
Speed of the 2 should be equal, but using plates reduces speed.
As is maddies have a speed of like 90 or something, and shields have 77.
With a plate a maddie matches a gunnlogi in speed.
What's the point of that speed reduction??
1.6 couldn't come sooner! |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
56
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 21:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:When i used a soma, the first things i noticed was the angle it's large turret can look at and its speed.
Slower and can't look as far down as the armor. |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
57
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 13:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:It isn't that Armor should effect the Gallente less, it is that the Gallente are fast by nature and the Caldari are slow. These are their base racial characteristics. The Gallente are fast so that they still have some amount of speed if you use their preferred tank, while not choosing to do so makes them fast but fragile. Caldari are slow, but their shields do not slow them further.
Gallente are fast, but using an armor plate slows you down. Is what I understand from this statement. Though who in their right mind would drive an armor tank with no plates! That's suicide.
As it stands now, the armor tank holds the advantage of top speed, acceleration, longer heals and active tanking. Gallente tanks have the best of both worlds.
Caldari tanks are slower, very weak active tanking, burst healing, lower HP. Caldari are weaker in every aspect. Only good thing they got going on for them is resistance to explosives (namely swarms, av nades hurt).
If we look at gallente infantry, they are slooow with plates to reach a high tank.
Caldari infantry on the other hand, remains mobile while maintaining a large tank.
The key is these two points:
Stand-and-deliver =
Armor:
high total HP and Passive resists
less emphasis on active tanking
less mobile yet able to absorb a lot of damage for extended periods
slow ticking heal yet heals more overall than the shields
Hit and Run =
Shields
less total HP than armor high burst resists
More emphasis on active tanking
Very mobile to compensate for less staying power in battle, hit and run means speed!
Burst healing, long shield recharge times
To make this happen, shields need a bump to speed and armor needs to take a nerf to speed and a buff to HP. |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
58
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 14:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I'm pretty sure shield tanks are faster, armor tanks just accelerate much quicker.
They are not, I run a shield tank and I roll in a squad with armor. I can attest to this from a few games where I went spider tanking for another armor.
I could not come close to keeping up, and it bothered him because I also couldn't back up as quick as him, I was moving like a snail in his eyes. He told me once I'm backin out, and I say yeah I know man, been backin out for 5 seconds already.
Shields are slooow
Armor is FAST
I run my anti infantry fits with speed boosters, and even then armor can still outrun me, though not as quickly as without. |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
58
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 14:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:No, armour tanks are faster.
As it happens, shield tanks seem to be designed with teamwork in mind; specifically, spider tanking. The shield transporters are incredible when combined with shield's natural resistance.
Yeah the repper is nice, 1.5 will remove them though for rework though. |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
58
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 14:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Uh................................ there's propulsion moving Gallente ships and tanks. The dropsuits enhance the soldier's locomotion as well as greatly improve defense. Big difference between moving an accelerator and still having to put forward the effort to move.
This explains nothing, it simply proposes many questions. So heavy armor doesn't slow a tank down but should a dropsuit? |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
58
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 14:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:I'm pretty sure shield tanks are faster, armor tanks just accelerate much quicker. They are not, I run a shield tank and I roll in a squad with armor. I can attest to this from a few games where I went spider tanking for another armor. I could not come close to keeping up, and it bothered him because I also couldn't back up as quick as him, I was moving like a snail in his eyes. He told me once I'm backin out, and I say yeah I know man, been backin out for 5 seconds already. Shields are slooow Armor is FAST I run my anti infantry fits with speed boosters, and even then armor can still outrun me, though not as quickly as without. You're running remote armor reppers on a shield tank? You're doing it wrong.
No was running a shield repper, not even possible to fit any good mitigation with a armor repper. |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
58
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 14:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Princeps Marcellus wrote:Look, if you're baffled by why people would want armor to travel faster, it's likely either because A) they feel like armor is underpowered (probably people who specialized into infantry, armor HAVs are superior to shield HAVs at the moment) or B) they come from EVE Online. And really, if they come from EVE, it makes sense. Gallente have the second thickest armor plates of the four races, and in space, where there is no gravity to hold you down or air to slow you down, they've also got some of the quickest ships too. Fast and heavily armored isn't an oxymoron in space. Gravity doesn't affect one's ability to accelerate, but mass. Their ships have more powerful engines than most others to accommodate a larger mass. Their tanking ability and speed in EVE is all balanced out with everything else, but Dust is just starting up and still trying to find balance. Unfortunately, having Gallente HAVs faster than Caldari simply makes it imbalanced, because the suppose style of the Caldari's hit and run can't be fulfilled due to a lower speed. This lower speed would be justified if Caldari HAVs could fit passive tanks that are incredibly effective, but looks like CCP is pushing toward active tanking. But seriously, I want a passively tanked Gunnlogi as effective as a passively tanked Drake in EVE.
You know they could completely reverse that role if they wanted, making armor hit and run, and the caldari tanks stand and deliver. Those roles are already partially fulfilled! |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
58
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 14:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:So, I know there are people out there that think a armor tank should be faster because gallente have mastered armor tech so they can move faster (not the case with infantry!).
To me this is insane, the way it works now with infantry is that the shields have far more mobility. Something changing 1.4 but that's the point isn't it.
All that armor weighing you down reduces movement speed.
The shields got nothing weighing them down, so max speed.
Though with vehicles the opposite is true.
Armor is much faster then shields
Shields much slower
To make the statement true of armor tankers, they would need less damage resist which is compensated with speed.
I think a lot of the imbalance comes from the fact that the roles of the 2 tanks are loosely set but not fully utilized.
Speed - hit and run
Resist - Armor
Speed of the 2 should be equal, but using plates reduces speed.
As is maddies have a speed of like 90 or something, and shields have 77.
With a plate a maddie matches a gunnlogi in speed.
What's the point of that speed reduction??
1.6 couldn't come sooner! Higher base speed, after armor is applied the tank would be slower.
The exact difference is 1 point slower than shields. And they are still much much faster!
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Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
58
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 14:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Spycrab Potato wrote:I run a Maddy, and I would prefer to be able to stay and fight than poke at the enemy and get away fast.
And I would prefer to be the poker, I shield tank |
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