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Aesiron Kor-Azor
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
320
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Posted - 2013.08.31 19:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Personally I'd like to know why there is no massive recoil in forge guns.
f = m a (force = mass x acceleration)
The mass of a forge gun bullet is probably going to be comparable to a .50 calibre bullet. And the mass is approximately 50g.
The acceleration of the bullet is 7,000 m/s^2 according to the description.
0.05 x 7000 = 350 N
Bearing in mind that people weigh about 120 N, this should knock you over.
Definitely knock you over, the force of three people standing on you. |
Aesiron Kor-Azor
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
320
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 19:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Aesiron Kor-Azor wrote:Personally I'd like to know why there is no massive recoil in forge guns.
f = m a (force = mass x acceleration)
The mass of a forge gun bullet is probably going to be comparable to a .50 calibre bullet. And the mass is approximately 50g.
The acceleration of the bullet is 7,000 m/s^2 according to the description.
0.05 x 7000 = 350 N
Bearing in mind that people weigh about 120 N, this should knock you over.
Definitely knock you over, the force of three people standing on you. But shooter is in special Heavy dropsuit created to compensate heavy weapon recoil, beside there is places in New Eden where physics do not work as they should. Yes to hit registration - we have big problem with it in this build.
It should at least distort the aim slightly, I doubt the heavy dropsuit is that heavy.
I'll calculate the momentum, what is its mass again? |
Aesiron Kor-Azor
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
320
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 20:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aesiron Kor-Azor wrote:Personally I'd like to know why there is no massive recoil in forge guns.
f = m a (force = mass x acceleration)
The mass of a forge gun bullet is probably going to be comparable to a .50 calibre bullet. And the mass is approximately 50g.
The acceleration of the bullet is 7,000 m/s^2 according to the description.
0.05 x 7000 = 350 N
Bearing in mind that people weigh about 120 N, this should knock you over.
Definitely knock you over, the force of three people standing on you. You're forgetting to account for the mass of the Forge Gun balancing out the recoil. A .50 calibre pistol will usually have more recoil than a .50 calibre rifle that fires the same size projectile at greater speed. And you're also forgetting to account for the huge amount of extra mass on a Heavy Dropsuit, because that would also help to make recoil control easier. On the topic of Mass Drivers, if you land a shot BEHIND the target, you can kill them without taking damage yourself. Good MD users have been doing that for ages now.
Momentum is still conserved and the weight doesn't affect it, it is only the area which it is spread across, it should at least knock your arms up in the air with a force of 350 N on a... lets say 30kg forge gun.
350/30 is 11.666 This calculated should accelerate the forge gun at 11.666 m/s^2 backwards, and I doubt that a heavy dropsuit could fully withstand that. Aeroplanes fly at 10m/s^2, and considering the heavy dropsuit doesn't smash a hole in the ground or fly down particularly fast, it can't withstand that force. |
Aesiron Kor-Azor
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
320
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 22:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Azri Sarum wrote:Aesiron Kor-Azor wrote:
Momentum is still conserved and the weight doesn't affect it, it is only the area which it is spread across, it should at least knock your arms up in the air with a force of 350 N on a... lets say 30kg forge gun.
350/30 is 11.666 This calculated should accelerate the forge gun at 11.666 m/s^2 backwards, and I doubt that a heavy dropsuit could fully withstand that. Aeroplanes fly at 10m/s^2, and considering the heavy dropsuit doesn't smash a hole in the ground or fly down particularly fast, it can't withstand that force.
So your argument is slightly off. You correctly calculated the acceleration that would be imparted from firing the forge gun (11.666 m/s^2) but that is only an acceleration, not the speed that the forge gun would be pushed backwards. For that, you would need to calculate velocity. Your delta T would be small (~.1s ish).
Honestly that is irrelevant, a force of 350 N should generate a lot of recoil, regardless of the weight of the forge gun being 30kg or the heavy suit being 300kg. |
Aesiron Kor-Azor
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
320
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 22:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Aesiron Kor-Azor wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aesiron Kor-Azor wrote:Personally I'd like to know why there is no massive recoil in forge guns.
f = m a (force = mass x acceleration)
The mass of a forge gun bullet is probably going to be comparable to a .50 calibre bullet. And the mass is approximately 50g.
The acceleration of the bullet is 7,000 m/s^2 according to the description.
0.05 x 7000 = 350 N
Bearing in mind that people weigh about 120 N, this should knock you over.
Definitely knock you over, the force of three people standing on you. You're forgetting to account for the mass of the Forge Gun balancing out the recoil. A .50 calibre pistol will usually have more recoil than a .50 calibre rifle that fires the same size projectile at greater speed. And you're also forgetting to account for the huge amount of extra mass on a Heavy Dropsuit, because that would also help to make recoil control easier. On the topic of Mass Drivers, if you land a shot BEHIND the target, you can kill them without taking damage yourself. Good MD users have been doing that for ages now. Momentum is still conserved and the weight doesn't affect it, it is only the area which it is spread across, it should at least knock your arms up in the air with a force of 350 N on a... lets say 30kg forge gun. 350/30 is 11.666 This calculated should accelerate the forge gun at 11.666 m/s^2 backwards, and I doubt that a heavy dropsuit could fully withstand that. Aeroplanes fly at 10m/s^2, and considering the heavy dropsuit doesn't smash a hole in the ground or fly down particularly fast, it can't withstand that force. Yay, let's do physics! Let's just think about the raw forces involved without thinking about anything that could mitigate them, shall we? Now, firstly, an inertial dampener exists in the game. That alone can defeat your argument, but let's talk about it a little more. Clever design work can mitigate recoil. Looking at the bazooka IRL as an example, it doesn't have much recoil due to the design. That's because it's designed so that instead of the recoil pushing on the user, it pushes on gases out the back. The same thing can be done with the forge gun, and I vaguely remember something along those lines appearing in the weapon description.
Don't compare the forge gun to the bazooka. The forge gun's projectile travels at more than 2000 times the speed, and at a force of 350 N exerted on the forge gun itself, nothing could physically dampen that.. it is the equivalent of three people being dropped onto something.
and considering that weapons such as the plasma assault rifle have recoil and the forge gun doesn't renders the idea of inertia dampeners inside guns more or less wrong. |
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