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Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2731	Posted - 2013.08.25 22:31:00 - [1] - Quote Before trying to read this large amount of text, if you're not interested in Vehicles then my advise it to not bother reading, posting a tl;dr after this warning will just allow the rest of us to know you're an idiot. kthx <3 Hello, I've been looking at spider tanking in DUST, I hope I am able to provide a few reasons for all our lovely vehicle players to take a look at using the tools we have available (except dropships, you suck. You'll stop sucking when CCP decides to make it so you don't have to land on the damn tank to rep anyone.) Strangely enough, not a lot of people understand what spider tanking is and so I better offer atleast that most basic information, the term comes from EVE, if you want to read all about it click here In DUST, we have the same thing, using Remote Repairs (Armor) or Transporters (Shields) you are able to repair other vehicles, meaning you can hide and keep other vehicles alive. So why should we look at spider tanking? Well take a look at these numbers Light Converse Shield Booster Recharge per Pulse: 105.0 HP (Total = 525HP regen per use) Pulse Interval: 1.0 s Number of Pulses: 5 Cooldown: 30.0 s Light Converse Shield Transporter Recharge per Pulse: 125.0 HP (Total = 1875HP regen per use) Pulse Interval: 15.0 s Number of Pulses: 1 Cooldown: 15.0 s Heavy Converse Shield Booster Recharge per Pulse: 271.0 HP (Total = 1355HP regen per use) Pulse Interval: 1.0 s Number of Pulses: 5 Cooldown: 30.0 s Heavy Converse Shield Transporter Recharge per Pulse: 325.0 HP (Total = 4875HP regen per use) Pulse Interval: 15.0 s Number of Pulses: 1 (Actually pulses every second) Cooldown: 15.0 s As you can see, the total HP regeneration for the Shield Transporters completely trumps the Shield Boosters, with the light Transporters capable of healing more than a heavy Booster, you can't help but wonder why we're not all over this already, this right here offers an ability to compete against superior AV through teamwork. Now, I'm not going to include the numbers for Armor Remote Repairs as these are UP as ****, with the GÇ£bugGÇ¥ for Armor Reppers giving them 15 pulses rather than 5, it means that they outclass the Remote Repair modules, if it was fixed though then again you'd really want to look at Remote Repairs. I've been tanking for a long time now, so it's quite safe to say I've not only made good/bad fits but seen good/bad fits also, including spider tanks. The problem is many players seem to sacrifice their ability to repair themselves in exchange for stronger reps coming from an external source. Yes it's possible to survive with this setup but it's very situational and risky. A common idea I've seen is a very strong buffer tank being followed by a tank with the ability to use a heavy transporter, it's great but the moment the rep tank dies, your buffer is going to struggle. Not just this but the buffer usually doesn't come equipped with a transporter so theres no way to help the logi out. A good use for this type of tank is defending, especially compound gates. By hiding the logi tank away from the sight of the AV, it gives you the ability to tank massive amounts of damage. Just remember, not all AVers are idiots, if they realise you're spider tanking they will kill the rep tank, and just because there is a wall doesn't mean it's not going to Lai Dai it into the ground. I have a general rule when it comes to spider tanking. Spider tanking should augment your tanking ability, it should not mean you're reliant on another player. If you cannot survive by yourself then the chances are you're not going to last long when a problem arises during spider tanking session, you could have a great tank and so could your mate, but what happens when you get seperated by AV and you're reliant on eachother for survival? You've been divided and conquered. Now what if you had a great solo tank, but you could repair one another as well? It becomes a very beneficial partnership. What I have noticed is Armor Tanks benefit from shield transporters, by keeping their shields up they're able to tank more explosive damage. Now all Armor Tanks have two spare High Slots, if you're rushing around in a Madrugar, slap a light Transporter on, most Madrugars will have base shields (1250) so a single transporter will rep them and keep them on max shields. Lastly, you can have numerous formations when it comes to spider tanking, the two commons ones are the convoy and the triangle. The Convoy is usually two tanks rolling together with one behind the other with the rear repping the point tank. The trick to this formation is constant switching and paying attention to each other with good communication. It means both tanks can get warpoints rather than one getting a load and the other getting nothing. The Triangle is more difficult as the inclusion of additional tanks can start to become a logistical issue. This formation relies on two tanks flanking behind the point tank, constantly providing reps to the point tank and the other rear one, I've found this to be quite effective with a single buffer tank and two supports. The point tank takes all the damage, the support reps it as well reps eachother. What we need to remember when supporting, your role is not just the rep, it's to kill and survive, guard your point tanks flanks and keep Avers off them. As an additional note, Logi LAVs (Especially the Limbus, which allows you to have two Light Transporters without sacrificing its tank.) can be very good at helping Tanks survive. Their speed and tank means they're able to get in, save your ass and then haul it out of there.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2731	Posted - 2013.08.25 22:31:00 - [2] - Quote So overall, what should you take from this big wall of text? Transporters > Boosters Armor Remote reps are not as good as self Armor Reps Buffer Logi combo is alright, but not very versatile. The trick to proper spider tanking is augmenting your tank, not making you rely on other players. Logi LAVs can save lives. I hope some of you read this, and I hope it's somewhat helpful. Also CCP, GIVE TANKS GUARDIAN POINTS FOR SPIDER TANKING! Edit: Also, if you're looking to find other Tankers, try the channel 'Honey Badger' King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2733	Posted - 2013.08.25 23:13:00 - [3] - Quote So overall, what should you take from this big wall of text? Transporters > Boosters Armor Remote reps are not as good as self Armor Reps Buffer Logi combo is alright, but not very versatile. The trick to proper spider tanking is augmenting your tank, not making you rely on other players. Logi LAVs can save lives. I hope some of you read this, and I hope it's somewhat helpful. Also CCP, GIVE TANKS GUARDIAN POINTS FOR SPIDER TANKING! King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2733	Posted - 2013.08.25 23:16:00 - [4] - Quote Tank scrubs, read the numbers and then the post above if you don't want to actually read it all and you'll understand why it's beneficial just to slap on a Light Transporter on your Tank. DISCUSS <3 King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Gallente Mercenary 08551380 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 17	Posted - 2013.08.25 23:27:00 - [5] - Quote This is good info, I would logi lav and run remote reps all day if I got any WPs for doing it
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 43	Posted - 2013.08.25 23:30:00 - [6] - Quote bah jason you simply post that what ive told most tankers in SI long before.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2735	Posted - 2013.08.25 23:32:00 - [7] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: bah jason you simply post that what ive told most tankers in SI long before. Man, the only things you taught me was how angry you get when I drive into your tank by accident :P I think I've gotten notes written down somewhere titled "Cloud's insults to Jason when they're tanking together" lol <3 King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Lillica Deathdealer Mango and Friends 237	Posted - 2013.08.26 03:08:00 - [8] - Quote Dude, today I just made spider tanking go 3D. Threw a regular derpship into the mix with shield transporters. I'm so OP to fly that bad boy.
knight guard fury the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 5	Posted - 2013.08.26 03:11:00 - [9] - Quote more people should test this idea out
TEBOW BAGGINS Rebel Raiders Inc. 928	Posted - 2013.08.26 04:06:00 - [10] - Quote it was pretty epic

Tank Missile Intara Direct Action Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.08.26 04:11:00 - [11] - Quote I can't help but think that my original post in GD started this spider tanking thread craze. To add to the discussion: I think that remote armor reps are still incredibly useful, considering I've never seen a shield tank with a self armor rep, which would make them incredibly susceptible to armor burn. Also considering that you can have armor and shield reps active at the same time makes the remote armor module more than useful, in my own experience. From what I've learned with this profile, it would probably be best to make the rep tank an armor variant, since they can move faster. My Sica is constantly left in the dust by the faster Soma/Madrugars, and then the rep is broken by distance. Also, regarding your, "Convey" method, I find it is best if the rep tank is behind AND off to the side of the receiving tank, so if the tank on point has to back up, he won't accidentally run into the logi behind him. Sometimes you can't avoid being directly behind the person you are repping, but when you can you should be off to the side.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2756	Posted - 2013.08.26 04:17:00 - [12] - Quote Tank Missile wrote: I can't help but think that my original post in GD started this spider tanking thread craze. To add to the discussion: I think that remote armor reps are still incredibly useful, considering I've never seen a shield tank with a self armor rep, which would make them incredibly susceptible to armor burn. Also considering that you can have armor and shield reps active at the same time makes the remote armor module more than useful, in my own experience. From what I've learned with this profile, it would probably be best to make the rep tank an armor variant, since they can move faster. My Sica is constantly left in the dust by the faster Soma/Madrugars, and then the rep is broken by distance. Also, regarding your, "Convey" method, I find it is best if the rep tank is behind AND off to the side of the receiving tank, so if the tank on point has to back up, he won't accidentally run into the logi behind him. Sometimes you can't avoid being directly behind the person you are repping, but when you can you should be off to the side. Been working on Spider Tanking since Closed Beta, but enough talk about it made me want to write this up. Armor Reps can be useful, don't get me wrong but when you're using Transporters on Armor Tanks to create shield buffers (very effective) then the Remote Rep becomes a little useless since they can rep themselves easy enough. When I run Convoy I'm usually in a Madrugar with a Heavy Transporter (Two on my Logi Tank :D) so them retreating, there really isn't a point, I prefer the convoy method as the people I do spider tank with are on the ball constantly, so when they say "right, taking too much damage" I pull off and we communicate the distances, what to watch out for and such. It's more for traveling around on the outskirts though, I enjoy that kind of tanking rather than rushing into the frontline and getting wrecked, sticking on the edge and killing everything there so the Convoy works :) King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2756	Posted - 2013.08.26 04:20:00 - [13] - Quote I've just realized, why the ** is this in Feedback? -_- King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 722	Posted - 2013.08.26 05:47:00 - [14] - Quote Currently the way all remote repairers work are buggy and unreliable. If you break LOS for one second, you break the lock, and then you have to go through the cooldown timer. The locking mechanics are clunky, and hard to use. That's why spidering is rare. It's hard to use unless you're standing still, which is death in anyway you put it. Fix the locking mechs so it works, and allow breakage of LOS, and spiders are useful for something other then biting.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 482	Posted - 2013.08.26 08:10:00 - [15] - Quote Tested, it's really a good strategy, the only thing i would change is how shield/armor transporters works. They should let us lock again if we are out of range, or work like a nanohive, if you enter the circle you are automatically locked and healed. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________Thought of the AVer: use the orbital to kill that sica
Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 678	Posted - 2013.08.26 11:28:00 - [16] - Quote I run logi tanks, 1 dedicated to shield tanks, 1 for armor, and one is a glass bandaid?(heavy shield and armor reps lol). Both shield and armor tanks can become monsters if they are managed right. COMMs are needed, so I know when to start patching them. When it comes to logi tanking, the alpha tanker needs the ability to listen. -Alpha or lead tank needs to use his tank as if I wasn't there. The reason for this is most the tanks that die get over confident they have additional reps, and try take on 3x their usual battle. - Keep moving!! Once the reps are on, I don't need to be sat waiting to get la dai's to hell and back, My logi tanks can survive a good ass whooping, when moving. (this applies realy to open field triage, If we have good infantry in the area, running is needless) - Take breaks, sit out the way and let all of our modules cool down, A lot of the time I armor rep someone then they go flying off, not giving me any time to have my module cooldown. -Armor tanks should be looking at the use of Heavy shield extenders, Shield remote reps cooldown much faster, and shield takes the edge off of swarmers. - Tank v Tank, fight him!!! I will get the reps on you then help. Too many times have I seen the Alpha tank, try put me to the frontlines, so I attract the damage, so they get the kill. stupid. I have joined the Honey Badger channel and I look forward to testing my spider tank set ups, I have fitted both an armor rail and an armor blaster with additional shields and shield transporters ready. I have a few million more in armor tanking before I will start pouring SP into the shield tanks.
Tal-Rakken DUST University Ivy League 69	Posted - 2013.08.26 15:22:00 - [17] - Quote As a swarm user I've actually been noticing this on the battlefield a lot more frequently over the past couple of weeks. The problem is to fit the transporter/remote to a chary it kills its tank the limbus doesn't have as much of an issue but its tank isn't as good anyways. Just yesterday I killed off the same chary twice while it was repping its tank the tank sadly did not die chary did its job.
MarasdF Loron Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 84	Posted - 2013.08.26 15:47:00 - [18] - Quote Whenever I try to join 'Honey Badger' it takes me to 'Honeybadger' - an empty channel... why oh why? Is that the right channel?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1081	Posted - 2013.08.26 17:38:00 - [19] - Quote If i use an extra channel my game gets buggy
Nguruthos IX Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 1137	Posted - 2013.08.26 17:47:00 - [20] - Quote spider tanking dropships. lolololol

Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2771	Posted - 2013.08.26 18:20:00 - [21] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Whenever I try to join 'Honey Badger' it takes me to 'Honeybadger' - an empty channel... why oh why? Is that the right channel? You typed in precisely 'Honey Badger' and included the ' ' right? If not, make sure you put them in, if it keeps failing I'm just eating some food and getting online, send me a mail and I'll invite you. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 158	Posted - 2013.08.26 18:52:00 - [22] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: As you can see, the total HP regeneration for the Shield Transporters completely trumps the Shield Boosters, with the light Transporters capable of healing more than a heavy Booster, you can't help but wonder why we're not all over this already, this right here offers an ability to compete against superior AV through teamwork. The issue is, when I chase a tank around the whole game, saving his ass on many occasions I get, what? 50K? Hell, 80K if I'm lucky and find a few swarm guys to run over. And I go, what? 2/0 with 175 points? If I'm in my Limbus, then I might get an extra 125, if I manage to repair the dying heavies armor with the clunky crap that is the infantry repper, before he goes to cover. I cannot attest to running an actual tank to rep a tank, but it can't be any more profitable.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2771	Posted - 2013.08.26 18:56:00 - [23] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: As you can see, the total HP regeneration for the Shield Transporters completely trumps the Shield Boosters, with the light Transporters capable of healing more than a heavy Booster, you can't help but wonder why we're not all over this already, this right here offers an ability to compete against superior AV through teamwork. The issue is, when I chase a tank around the whole game, saving his ass on many occasions I get, what? 50K? Hell, 80K if I'm lucky and find a few swarm guys to run over. And I go, what? 2/0 with 175 points? If I'm in my Limbus, then I might get an extra 125, if I manage to repair the dying heavies armor with the clunky crap that is the infantry repper, before he goes to cover. I cannot attest to running an actual tank to rep a tank, but it can't be any more profitable. That issues disappears when you're on comms working with one another in two Tanks, you keep switching it up so you get kills and can take the heat off of one another. If you're in a LLAV, make sure you're in a squad together and be the leader, defend order on the Tank and you get points for helping out as well as running of the occasional AV squad (I recommend this to every logi vehicle btw, always be the squad leader if you're providing the majority of the reps.) If you're not squadded up with anyone, don't follow the tank around forever, if you're being a murder taxi fit the booster on it and if you are near a tank it doesn't hurt to top them up every now and then. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1236	Posted - 2013.08.26 18:57:00 - [24] - Quote Not sure if the vehicle collision fix will also mean good things for tanks trying to spider-tank not having to risk a tap-BOOM! dilemma.
MarasdF Loron Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 84	Posted - 2013.08.27 12:39:00 - [25] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Whenever I try to join 'Honey Badger' it takes me to 'Honeybadger' - an empty channel... why oh why? Is that the right channel? You typed in precisely 'Honey Badger' and included the ' ' right? If not, make sure you put them in, if it keeps failing I'm just eating some food and getting online, send me a mail and I'll invite you. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Oh damn, I did not include those ' ', I will try again later when I get online :)


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