DUST Search - If 1 shield hp > 1 armour hp . . .

I-Shayz-I wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Armor has better engagement window but longer down time

Shields have worse engagement window but shorter down time to the point its considered part of the engagement window

This is why I generally favor Armor over shields. When I first started, I went speedy shield logi with a Logistics vk.1/type 2, but then realized that this caused me to be running away from the group far more often than I did when I was using armor. During uprising I made sure to go into armor this time around but was still turned off by the slow slow speed of armor.

Due to the ferroscale effect (ferroscale + regular plate), I was then able to create a suit that was fast, but still had a lot of HP. And now with the new armor plates, I'll be able to have even more hp and still go fast (speed penalty reduction + no more ferroscales).

The only problem now is with armor repair. Currently, even with my passive from logistics and the armor repair skill, I only get 11.25/s with one complex, 17.5/s with 2...and that's as much as I'm willing to put on. Now I really wish that I had skilled into Amarr Logi like I wanted to to begin with, but at the time it only had as much armor repair capabilities as the Minmatar (3 low slots at proto wasn't good). When they added the fourth low slot, it meant that the Amarr suit would have the highest potential for crazy armor repair.

I guess where I'm going with this is that while the armor buff is nice, it means that we have an even longer time to wait for our armor to come back up with the new plates. Not that it's a bad thing, but I need two complex modules, and two skills (logistics and armor repair) to level 5 just to have an armor repair CLOSE to that of the natural shield regen.

Maybe the armor high slot module needs to be a an energy transfer module that uses up a percentage of the shield recharge speed to increase armor repair by a static number?

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Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1241	Posted - 2013.08.25 15:12:00 - [1] - Quote . . . then doesn't it follow that armour based suits, I.e Gallente suits are being cheated out of base hp? It would seem that after the upcoming armour buff, the ratio will be 1shield worth roughly 2armour. Shouldn't the base HP of suits be changed to reflect this?
Leovarian L Lavitz Better Academy. 555	Posted - 2013.08.25 15:17:00 - [2] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: . . . then doesn't it follow that armour based suits, I.e Gallente suits are being cheated out of base hp? It would seem that after the upcoming armour buff, the ratio will be 1shield worth roughly 2armour. Shouldn't the base HP of suits be changed to reflect this? Yes, eve side armor guys have increased structure hit points after their armor which makes up for similar stats. There is no structure stat in dust, so base armor should be increased for armor suits imo.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 2748	Posted - 2013.08.25 15:23:00 - [3] - Quote That would make armour OP. By this logic, the progression ratios for the armour plates should be the same - A complex shield extender is 3x the basic shield extender, so a complex armour plate should be 3x the basic plate, which would be 255 HP. That would be undeniably overpowered.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1242	Posted - 2013.08.25 16:09:00 - [4] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That would make armour OP. By this logic, the progression ratios for the armour plates should be the same - A complex shield extender is 3x the basic shield extender, so a complex armour plate should be 3x the basic plate, which would be 255 HP. That would be undeniably overpowered. That's one hell of a non sequitur. I based this thread off of those armour plates.
J3f3r20n Gh057 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 59	Posted - 2013.08.25 17:16:00 - [5] - Quote What i'm waiting for is that penalty to the shield recharge, because shield recharge faster tha a complex armor repair. Unfair.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 2750	Posted - 2013.08.25 18:21:00 - [6] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That would make armour OP. By this logic, the progression ratios for the armour plates should be the same - A complex shield extender is 3x the basic shield extender, so a complex armour plate should be 3x the basic plate, which would be 255 HP. That would be undeniably overpowered. That's one hell of a non sequitur. I based this thread off of those armour plates. Do you mean my post invalidating your argument or my post being invalid?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7744	Posted - 2013.08.25 18:23:00 - [7] - Quote Armor has better engagement window but longer down time Shields have worse engagement window but shorter down time to the point its considered part of the engagement window
Cy Clone1 Intara Direct Action Caldari State 239	Posted - 2013.08.25 18:26:00 - [8] - Quote J3f3r20n Gh057 wrote: What i'm waiting for is that penalty to the shield recharge, because shield recharge faster tha a complex armor repair. Unfair. first of all shield extenders cost a lot of fitting space and give less hp that's a disadvantage . Secondly once 1.4 comes out you wont need the extra plates so youll be able to fit more reps. Having 15+ armor regen all the time is pretty good. just wait a few more days and try things out before asking for more nerfs
I-Shayz-I Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 696	Posted - 2013.08.25 18:51:00 - [9] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Armor has better engagement window but longer down time Shields have worse engagement window but shorter down time to the point its considered part of the engagement window This is why I generally favor Armor over shields. When I first started, I went speedy shield logi with a Logistics vk.1/type 2, but then realized that this caused me to be running away from the group far more often than I did when I was using armor. During uprising I made sure to go into armor this time around but was still turned off by the slow slow speed of armor. Due to the ferroscale effect (ferroscale + regular plate), I was then able to create a suit that was fast, but still had a lot of HP. And now with the new armor plates, I'll be able to have even more hp and still go fast (speed penalty reduction + no more ferroscales). The only problem now is with armor repair. Currently, even with my passive from logistics and the armor repair skill, I only get 11.25/s with one complex, 17.5/s with 2...and that's as much as I'm willing to put on. Now I really wish that I had skilled into Amarr Logi like I wanted to to begin with, but at the time it only had as much armor repair capabilities as the Minmatar (3 low slots at proto wasn't good). When they added the fourth low slot, it meant that the Amarr suit would have the highest potential for crazy armor repair. I guess where I'm going with this is that while the armor buff is nice, it means that we have an even longer time to wait for our armor to come back up with the new plates. Not that it's a bad thing, but I need two complex modules, and two skills (logistics and armor repair) to level 5 just to have an armor repair CLOSE to that of the natural shield regen. Maybe the armor high slot module needs to be a an energy transfer module that uses up a percentage of the shield recharge speed to increase armor repair by a static number?
ReGnYuM TeamPlayers EoN. 793	Posted - 2013.08.25 19:39:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Armor has better engagement window but longer down time Shields have worse engagement window but shorter down time to the point its considered part of the engagement window I disagree, I would say armour and shield preference is not solely based on engagement window

hooc order Deep Space Republic Top Men. 898	Posted - 2013.08.25 19:42:00 - [11] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Armor has better engagement window but longer down time Shields have worse engagement window but shorter down time to the point its considered part of the engagement window What the hell is an engagement window?
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1816	Posted - 2013.08.25 19:45:00 - [12] - Quote Watch a high armor gallente stand on two wiyrkomi triage hives and with a core focused rep tool on him. He's pretty much invincible. Armor is a very different playstyle, and yes it is dependent on external healing sources. but its nasty under the right conditions.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 45	Posted - 2013.08.25 19:55:00 - [13] - Quote hooc order wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Armor has better engagement window but longer down time Shields have worse engagement window but shorter down time to the point its considered part of the engagement window What the hell is an engagement window? The amount of time you have to do stuff before getting killed. More armor hp equals more time since you can soak up more damage before having to disangage.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 808	Posted - 2013.08.25 20:22:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Armor has better engagement window but longer down time Shields have worse engagement window but shorter down time to the point its considered part of the engagement window ******* Christ ... you and your "logic" ... disgusting.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 808	Posted - 2013.08.25 20:25:00 - [15] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Watch a high armor gallente stand on two wiyrkomi triage hives and with a core focused rep tool on him. He's pretty much invincible. Armor is a very different playstyle, and yes it is dependent on external healing sources. but its nasty under the right conditions. That sense of awe God-mode repping an 800+ armor HP heavy who knows how to work magic with a proto HMG. No one does this anymore due to explosive spam. In other news... I <3 Breaks ... much bromance goin on round here.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 49	Posted - 2013.08.25 20:40:00 - [16] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: hooc order wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Armor has better engagement window but longer down time Shields have worse engagement window but shorter down time to the point its considered part of the engagement window What the hell is an engagement window? The amount of time you have to do stuff before getting killed. More armor hp equals more time since you can soak up more damage before having to disangage. And here I thought it was a drive through for wedding rings!
Rei Shepard Spectre II 459	Posted - 2013.08.25 21:02:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Armor has better engagement window but longer down time Shields have worse engagement window but shorter down time to the point its considered part of the engagement window We are talking about 1/10's of seconds here, idd hardly call that a window of engagement...
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1399	Posted - 2013.08.25 21:03:00 - [18] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: . . . then doesn't it follow that armour based suits, I.e Gallente suits are being cheated out of base hp? It would seem that after the upcoming armour buff, the ratio will be 1shield worth roughly 2armour. Shouldn't the base HP of suits be changed to reflect this? No because that would total unbalance low level play.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1244	Posted - 2013.08.25 21:52:00 - [19] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That would make armour OP. By this logic, the progression ratios for the armour plates should be the same - A complex shield extender is 3x the basic shield extender, so a complex armour plate should be 3x the basic plate, which would be 255 HP. That would be undeniably overpowered. That's one hell of a non sequitur. I based this thread off of those armour plates. Do you mean my post invalidating your argument or my post being invalid? Your post being invalid. My argument is based on the general assumption that armour modules are balanced when offering around double the HP. I drew conclusions from that, not conclusions about it.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1244	Posted - 2013.08.25 21:53:00 - [20] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: . . . then doesn't it follow that armour based suits, I.e Gallente suits are being cheated out of base hp? It would seem that after the upcoming armour buff, the ratio will be 1shield worth roughly 2armour. Shouldn't the base HP of suits be changed to reflect this? No because that would total unbalance low level play. Do you have any reason for saying that?

CommanderBolt A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 210	Posted - 2013.08.25 22:17:00 - [21] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Armor has better engagement window but longer down time Shields have worse engagement window but shorter down time to the point its considered part of the engagement window This is why I generally favor Armor over shields. When I first started, I went speedy shield logi with a Logistics vk.1/type 2, but then realized that this caused me to be running away from the group far more often than I did when I was using armor. During uprising I made sure to go into armor this time around but was still turned off by the slow slow speed of armor. Due to the ferroscale effect (ferroscale + regular plate), I was then able to create a suit that was fast, but still had a lot of HP. And now with the new armor plates, I'll be able to have even more hp and still go fast (speed penalty reduction + no more ferroscales). The only problem now is with armor repair. Currently, even with my passive from logistics and the armor repair skill, I only get 11.25/s with one complex, 17.5/s with 2...and that's as much as I'm willing to put on. Now I really wish that I had skilled into Amarr Logi like I wanted to to begin with, but at the time it only had as much armor repair capabilities as the Minmatar (3 low slots at proto wasn't good). When they added the fourth low slot, it meant that the Amarr suit would have the highest potential for crazy armor repair. I guess where I'm going with this is that while the armor buff is nice, it means that we have an even longer time to wait for our armor to come back up with the new plates. Not that it's a bad thing, but I need two complex modules, and two skills (logistics and armor repair) to level 5 just to have an armor repair CLOSE to that of the natural shield regen. Maybe the armor high slot module needs to be a an energy transfer module that uses up a percentage of the shield recharge speed to increase armor repair by a static number? Just remember that's ACTIVE tank ability too. As you are being shot you are regenerating armor (Or negating some enemy damage depending on what way you look at it) 10, 15, 20 ... hit points every second. Shields do not negate any damage nor regenerate as you are being hit.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 239	Posted - 2013.08.25 22:20:00 - [22] - Quote CCP gave in to qqs and now armor is too powerful already
low genius the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 358	Posted - 2013.08.25 22:29:00 - [23] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: . . . then doesn't it follow that armour based suits, I.e Gallente suits are being cheated out of base hp? It would seem that after the upcoming armour buff, the ratio will be 1shield worth roughly 2armour. Shouldn't the base HP of suits be changed to reflect this? you left out too many variables. /fail thread.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1245	Posted - 2013.08.25 22:58:00 - [24] - Quote low genius wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: . . . then doesn't it follow that armour based suits, I.e Gallente suits are being cheated out of base hp? It would seem that after the upcoming armour buff, the ratio will be 1shield worth roughly 2armour. Shouldn't the base HP of suits be changed to reflect this? you left out too many variables. /fail thread. It would contribute to the discussion if you shared those variables and how they leave the base hp of armour suits balanced. Fail reply.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1229	Posted - 2013.08.25 23:26:00 - [25] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: CCP gave in to qqs and now armor is too powerful already But secretly you put shield and armor mods on your Caldari Assault for the best suit in the game.


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