DUST Search - A long term problem CCP should recognize now

Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:

2 reasons why this is impossible.

- The engine being used (Unreal Engine 3)

- PS3 (512mb of RAM + 16 player lobbies + the complexities of EVE / DUST connection + CCP inexperience with the console)

Unreal is a good engine, but it's limited. When you think about it, DUST is the biggest FPS that uses it. Biggest I mean player count, maps (including instalations), vehicles, etc. Other Unreal FPS MP games that I can think of right now that i played were Unreal Tournament, and CoD games. Small maps, small player count, and hardly any vehicles.

Problem with the PS3 is its RAM. Good devs can optimize their game to do impressive stuff on the PS3. If you pay attention to the patch notes, you'll see in nearly every update they mention optimization in some way or the other. CCP is still learning the PS3 and how to get the best out of it.

When these basics are in the game, there's literally no more "room" to add destructible environments. Also Unreal Engine isn't great in that department either. It's not impossible though.

Pages: 1 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
S Park Finner Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 212	Posted - 2013.08.24 18:05:00 - [1] - Quote TL:DR Get someone working on player-driven dynamically changing battlefields. There is an underlying long-term problem that I have not heard anything about from CCP but which I think will be a behind-the-scenes issue: dynamically changing battlegrounds. Battlefield has addressed this with destructible environments. Each play through of a map can be subtly different because the terrain and the structures change depending on player action. It helps contribute to the much touted "Battlefield Moments" add to the liveliness of play. While there is long term hope for a great many different battlefields in DUST 514 any given battlefield will always be the same. Indeed, the persistent world requirement mandates it. What's more, DUST 514's multiple battlefields depend on scarce developer resources to implement in a way that player-driven dynamism does not. To have 50 different structures on 50 different terrains to mix-and-match each one of those elements has to be separately crafted. In player-driven dynamism that same effort would be just the starting point for greater variety of play. There are ways DUST 514 could respond. PS3 budgets might not allow it but perhaps next generation equipment could -- all-be-it with considerable re-work. More moveable elements... Allow players to set up walls, move around containers, place tank-traps, drop installations at random locations. Create limited destructibility... Replace some existing "stand alone" objects with destructible ones -- some walls, crates, terrain elements. Certainly this is all long term, next generation, heavy investment stuff but if there aren't people thinking about it at CCP it will be another competitive hurdle that will have to be jumped after the fact. It is critical that CCP put some early design work into this now.
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 513	Posted - 2013.08.24 18:09:00 - [2] - Quote Tl;dr Forge mode?
S Park Finner Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 212	Posted - 2013.08.24 18:33:00 - [3] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Tl;dr Forge mode? If you mean Forge, the game, then not Forge mode as I understand it. An example. Now, in DUST 514, all the containers are always in the same place. On the bridge map (Spine Crescent) on the South side of the Bridge there is an open container. One common strategy is to put a drop uplink inside it and on every battle you can depend on it's being there. If players could push that container around -- say with a tank -- or blow it up then the way the map plays would be very different. Apply that to all the things lying around the battlefield and each battle would be different from the last even though they all started out the same. If players could drop structures of build barriers it would change things even more. We can't have things like this for the PS3 -- but DUST 514's competition either has it or is working on it right now. I believe some small resource should be allocated by CCP to respond to this in the future.
Gods Architect SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 298	Posted - 2013.08.24 18:36:00 - [4] - Quote someone's been watching too much bf4
hooc order Deep Space Republic Top Men. 884	Posted - 2013.08.24 18:41:00 - [5] - Quote Gods Architect wrote: someone's been watching too much bf4 I proabably won't get BF4.... But HOLY F***ING CRAP!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3W4FbsAqIY
S Park Finner Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 212	Posted - 2013.08.24 18:45:00 - [6] - Quote Gods Architect wrote: someone's been watching too much bf4 If I remember correctly this started in the Battlefield series with limited destruction in the previous series (Battlefield 2?). They've been working on it for a while. I'm not particularly a BF fan, I prefer a SciFi environment, but I do think they've worked hard on replayability techniques. DUST 514 has a chance, with the combination of multiple terrains, structures, and (possibly) player driven dynamism, to trump that effort even though they are getting a late start. But they can't build-in things that make including it harder. Some design effort early on could make a difference.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3510	Posted - 2013.08.24 19:15:00 - [7] - Quote 2 reasons why this is impossible. - The engine being used (Unreal Engine 3) - PS3 (512mb of RAM + 16 player lobbies + the complexities of EVE / DUST connection + CCP inexperience with the console) Unreal is a good engine, but it's limited. When you think about it, DUST is the biggest FPS that uses it. Biggest I mean player count, maps (including instalations), vehicles, etc. Other Unreal FPS MP games that I can think of right now that i played were Unreal Tournament, and CoD games. Small maps, small player count, and hardly any vehicles. Problem with the PS3 is its RAM. Good devs can optimize their game to do impressive stuff on the PS3. If you pay attention to the patch notes, you'll see in nearly every update they mention optimization in some way or the other. CCP is still learning the PS3 and how to get the best out of it.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 672	Posted - 2013.08.24 19:19:00 - [8] - Quote Yes the unreal engine is good but can anyine else remember redfaction on the ps2 that was on the unreal engine and had some prety cool destructable environments .
hooc order Deep Space Republic Top Men. 884	Posted - 2013.08.24 19:30:00 - [9] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: 2 reasons why this is impossible. - The engine being used (Unreal Engine 3) - PS3 (512mb of RAM + 16 player lobbies + the complexities of EVE / DUST connection + CCP inexperience with the console) Unreal is a good engine, but it's limited. When you think about it, DUST is the biggest FPS that uses it. Biggest I mean player count, maps (including instalations), vehicles, etc. Other Unreal FPS MP games that I can think of right now that i played were Unreal Tournament, and CoD games. Small maps, small player count, and hardly any vehicles. Problem with the PS3 is its RAM. Good devs can optimize their game to do impressive stuff on the PS3. If you pay attention to the patch notes, you'll see in nearly every update they mention optimization in some way or the other. CCP is still learning the PS3 and how to get the best out of it. When these basics are in the game, there's literally no more "room" to add destructible environments. Also Unreal Engine isn't great in that department either. It's not impossible though. Quote: When you think about it, DUST is the biggest FPS that uses it. Tribes is bigger. Dust maybe currently the biggest PS3 multi-player FPS that uses it....but that is a pretty narrow field considering we are on the dawn of Unreal 4 and next gen consoles.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1802	Posted - 2013.08.24 19:34:00 - [10] - Quote I think mag did it very well, having gates you could repair and destroy, that would be pretty cool. Turrets, SDs and CRUs should also be revive able through repair. This would make a good starting point for this kind of feature.

soulreaper73 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 263	Posted - 2013.08.24 19:41:00 - [11] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: I think mag did it very well, having gates you could repair and destroy, that would be pretty cool. Turrets, SDs and CRUs should also be revive able through repair. This would make a good starting point for this kind of feature. the geniuses at ccp could not figure that out
S Park Finner Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 212	Posted - 2013.08.24 20:02:00 - [12] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: 2 reasons why this is impossible. - The engine being used (Unreal Engine 3) - PS3 (512mb of RAM + 16 player lobbies + the complexities of EVE / DUST connection + CCP inexperience with the console) I agree with a lot of your sentiment. I was speaking to a different point. From the original post... S Park Finner wrote: There are ways DUST 514 could respond. PS3 budgets might not allow it but perhaps next generation equipment could -- all-be-it with considerable re-work... ...Certainly this is all long term, next generation, heavy investment stuff but if there aren't people thinking about it at CCP it will be another competitive hurdle that will have to be jumped after the fact. It is critical that CCP put some early design work into this now. If you haven't looked at it already the link hooc order posted is a good idea of the next generation competition. The blog that goes with it is here. And DICE isn't the only developer moving in this direction.


Pages: 1 :: [one page]