DUST Search - Strobe-o-vision - not conducive to engaging FPS play.

Cal Predine wrote:

Yep, all good points Kal (and I'm a network Engineer by profession, so believe me I like to look into this type of stuff in quite some detail). All very plausible, although the client/ server interaction is rather more complex, and (as players) we're not privileged with all the details we need to make educated analysis of exactly what's happening.

Interestingly, a pretty thorough packet analysis of my PS3 traffic using Wireshark didn't indicate anything especially conclusive network-side, although the game traffic is carried over UDP, so it's not as if we're going to see a horde of resend requests to help us narrow things down...

In any case, the lag element could actually be introduced by a wider variety of elements than just my or the enemy's internet connection.
Their PS3, for example, could be struggling to process the game. Or mine could. Or (rather more likely) both could, plus a few other factors. The progressing nature of the problem would tend to support the theory that the problem is at least partly client-based, though, indication something along the lines of a memory leak. We've had this before in early beta, you'll no doubt remember, and some bugs were were found and corrected.

But Dust is a complex beast - it's entirely possible (indeed likely) that other such errors still exist. So I'd argue that the best solution is in fact to keep reporting this stuff as we find it. After all, we're all here to improve the game experience, and there's not much challenge in a FPS game if you can't be hit by enemy fire, any more than if there are enemies you can't hit.

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Cal Predine StarKnight Security 46	Posted - 2013.08.24 10:57:00 - [1] - Quote Framerate problems. Never used to be in the early beta, then became progressively worse with the early updates. I dreaded updates when I should have been itching for them to arrive... The game simply became less and less playable. So, following announcements of performance improvements, I decided to give Dust another try... The problem is a little less evident (good work!), but still very much there. In short, it's common to get such an appallingly juddery framerate that you can't hit anything - like trying to shoot a moving target which is lit only by a stroboscope. A hopeless task. Fast-moving suits are able to exploit this problem particularly well, and certain real-world locations appear to be benefiting from this more than others (as many others have reported before). Like most people here, I really want to see Dust succeed, but it's simply not reaching everyone it should - not for want of shiny new features, rather (the hard lesson we all thought CCP had learned from EVE) because the core features have only been half-completed and desperately need optimising and iterating upon. All the best with development, hope this helps.
Cal Predine StarKnight Security 46	Posted - 2013.08.25 12:12:00 - [2] - Quote More observations which may help track this down - it's pretty common to have far better performance at the start of a game than in the later stages - so very frequently the kill/ death graph at game end will show a very steep climb on the left, followed by a gradual inexorable decline as the game becomes harder to control due to screen stutter - memory leaks again, maybe? this situation is often improved when a new match starts, although there is a slower, constant degradation of performance over time until the console is reset. It's not clear if this is heat-related, I used to think so, and altough moving the PS3 into a clear area with better air circulation has possibly helped a little, it has by no means has resolved the problem entirely. Complicating matters is the fact that,as noted before, engaging players from some geographies will trigger this problem more notably than others. Even more strangely, some players (specific individuals) appear to be consistently almost impossible to track due to this problem. Could it be another manifestation of the match-making algorithm? Perhaps matching up players with wildly incompatible ping ratings? Hope this helps!
Cal Predine StarKnight Security 47	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:08:00 - [3] - Quote Just had the most amazing example of this affecting me when I engaged one specific member of the enemy team. On the whole the game was running pleasantly smoothly, unusually so, in fact (nice!) Our side was losing due to lack of commitment from friendlies (hill-lurking) and good team-play by opposition - kudos to them - but when I engaged most enemies enemy I was getting results from my gunfire. On the whole, the gameplay was uncommonly good and responsive. However, the top-placing enemy (flako315, with 10/2) was teleporting to a degree I've never seen before every time I tried to engage him - this was by far the most graphic example of this problem I've ever witnessed, so I hope he won't mind my flagging this up as an exemplar so Devs can check logs in the hope this will help them track this bug down. Here's hoping you can get to the bottom of this!
Cal Predine StarKnight Security 47	Posted - 2013.08.28 16:08:00 - [4] - Quote Another couple of incredible examples of players bringing their own lagstorms along... Just fought against EMBlack, who went 16/0 and hardly surprising as she was utterly impossible to land a hit on as she approached (in clear view) with her shotgun, despite my opening fire from maybe 100 metres out as she approached on more than one occasion. But EMB did not top the score table, that honour went to Psychotic Shooter, also with zero deaths (and I didn't note the kills other than it was several more than EMB). Not sure if I crossed swords with PS during the match, but wouldn't be surprised if he was the tanker that I couldn't even get the forge gun reticle to settle on due to screen judder. Serious flaw. Needs attention.
KalOfTheRathi Black Phoenix Mercenaries 602	Posted - 2013.08.28 23:40:00 - [5] - Quote How about some specific information to help us out? GMT, battle type, map, server setting (automatic, American, etc.). I have not experienced anything like this since 1.2 was released. Where it used to happen often, at least once or twice a day. So, well over a month, nearly two. The other possibility are network connectivity issues. It might be worthwhile to have your internet provider verify the status of your modem settings or run a diagnostic on it. That has happened to several mates I squad with. The time you were having trouble with one specific Red is actually a known issue. That Red has network connectivity issues. Their client is slow or sluggish. It still responds enough to be a valid client but whenever you see that Red it slows down your apparent connection because of: Your PS3 sends position data -> server server transfers it to Red -> Red PS3 responds ... later. Meanwhile you are trying to do something (kill the Red probably) -> when! Server finally updates your PS3 with data from Red PS3 possibly moving you and the Red back in time and space, making the display choppy, lagged and a pain to use. Best solution, tell the Red to restart DUST. They might because one lagging squad member can make an entire squad lag. They might need to contact their internet provider as well. Second best solution you restart DUST and hope not to play against him anytime soon. Also, remember that most households share the bandwidth. Which means older modems and WiFi routers are a bad mix, Steam downloading 6.2GB game files and two others in your house are watching eSports and/or NetFlix. which is not to say CCP/Shanghai knows about it, acknowledges it, can fix it or much of anything else.
Cal Predine StarKnight Security 47	Posted - 2013.08.29 20:02:00 - [6] - Quote Yep, all good points Kal (and I'm a network Engineer by profession, so believe me I like to look into this type of stuff in quite some detail). All very plausible, although the client/ server interaction is rather more complex, and (as players) we're not privileged with all the details we need to make educated analysis of exactly what's happening. Interestingly, a pretty thorough packet analysis of my PS3 traffic using Wireshark didn't indicate anything especially conclusive network-side, although the game traffic is carried over UDP, so it's not as if we're going to see a horde of resend requests to help us narrow things down... In any case, the lag element could actually be introduced by a wider variety of elements than just my or the enemy's internet connection. Their PS3, for example, could be struggling to process the game. Or mine could. Or (rather more likely) both could, plus a few other factors. The progressing nature of the problem would tend to support the theory that the problem is at least partly client-based, though, indication something along the lines of a memory leak. We've had this before in early beta, you'll no doubt remember, and some bugs were were found and corrected. But Dust is a complex beast - it's entirely possible (indeed likely) that other such errors still exist. So I'd argue that the best solution is in fact to keep reporting this stuff as we find it. After all, we're all here to improve the game experience, and there's not much challenge in a FPS game if you can't be hit by enemy fire, any more than if there are enemies you can't hit.
Psychotic Shooter Internal Rebellion 132	Posted - 2013.08.30 21:24:00 - [7] - Quote Cal Predine wrote: Another couple of incredible examples of players bringing their own lagstorms along... Just fought against EMBlack, who went 16/0 and hardly surprising as she was utterly impossible to land a hit on as she approached (in clear view) with her shotgun, despite my opening fire from maybe 30 metres out as she approached on more than one occasion. But EMB did not top the score table, that honour went to Psychotic Shooter, also with zero deaths (and I didn't note the kills other than it was several more than EMB). Not sure if I crossed swords with PS during the match, but wouldn't be surprised if he was the tanker that I couldn't even get the forge gun reticle to settle on due to screen judder. Serious flaw. Needs attention. I may have been tanking and me and my friend EMBlackout were having connextion problems all day so stop complaining and play the game P.S learn Someones gender before you go and make a fool of yourself EMBlackout is male
Cal Predine StarKnight Security 47	Posted - 2013.09.01 13:16:00 - [8] - Quote Psychotic Shooter wrote: I may have been tanking and me and my friend EMBlackout were having connextion problems all day so stop complaining and play the game P.S learn Someones gender before you go and make a fool of yourself EMBlackout is male Thanks for your insightful and well-considered observations 'shooter. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but your comment that you and EMBlackout were both having connextion (sic) problems all day (and still achieving consistently high kill levels without loss) will prove to be of very great interest to the devs - frankly I'd expect serious network problems to make the game unplayable, yet I have to congratulate you both on stunning performances. And I certainly hope I didn't offend EMBlackout by getting his gender wrong, although I'll confess that I don't consider peripheral details like that as particularly relevant when making bug reports. However, I'd respectfully suggest if you want to tell other players to "stop complaining" you may want to take that elsewhere than where a bug is being reported on a technical support/ bug report forum - see how that works? Can you imagine how much feedback the Devs would get if anybody were ever to take any notice whatsoever of such "suggestions"? A pretty sad state, I'm sure you'll agree? However, there is hope - if you don't want to read "complaints" (or "feedback" as it's more commonly known), then you always have the choice to avoid the specific forums where feedback is solicited to help improve the game?
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 312	Posted - 2013.09.02 21:38:00 - [9] - Quote When I get this, and it's rare, it usually has to do with graphics loading in during play. Or perhaps it's because I have a first gen PS3 that this is a very rare occurance for me. Things that might help. Make sure your PS3 HDD's file system is defragged. It's helped my PS3 immensely. This will help shorten loading times. There are instructional pages and vids all over the internet. By default, the HDDs Sony has installed in the PS3 are 5400 rpm. Upgrading to a 7200 rpm will also help shorten load times. If you can afford it, a 10,000 rpm, SSD, or HDD/SSD hybrid will really cut down load times which does include graphics loading while in a match. I need to upgrade to a 7200rpm myself.
CommanderBolt A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 225	Posted - 2013.09.03 02:25:00 - [10] - Quote Cal Predine wrote: Yep, all good points Kal (and I'm a network Engineer by profession, so believe me I like to look into this type of stuff in quite some detail). All very plausible, although the client/ server interaction is rather more complex, and (as players) we're not privileged with all the details we need to make educated analysis of exactly what's happening. Interestingly, a pretty thorough packet analysis of my PS3 traffic using Wireshark didn't indicate anything especially conclusive network-side, although the game traffic is carried over UDP, so it's not as if we're going to see a horde of resend requests to help us narrow things down... In any case, the lag element could actually be introduced by a wider variety of elements than just my or the enemy's internet connection. Their PS3, for example, could be struggling to process the game. Or mine could. Or (rather more likely) both could, plus a few other factors. The progressing nature of the problem would tend to support the theory that the problem is at least partly client-based, though, indication something along the lines of a memory leak. We've had this before in early beta, you'll no doubt remember, and some bugs were were found and corrected. But Dust is a complex beast - it's entirely possible (indeed likely) that other such errors still exist. So I'd argue that the best solution is in fact to keep reporting this stuff as we find it. After all, we're all here to improve the game experience, and there's not much challenge in a FPS game if you can't be hit by enemy fire, any more than if there are enemies you can't hit. I certainly believe we are still suffering from memory leaks. Il admit its not as bad as it used to be, however its a common rule in my corp to reset after running a lot of games. It is also standard procedure to reset the ps3 before PC games as well as adjust settings. It could be a mix of all things. Internet lag, ps3 struggling to render everything, memory leaks over time.

CommanderBolt A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 225	Posted - 2013.09.03 02:28:00 - [11] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: When I get this, and it's rare, it usually has to do with graphics loading in during play. Or perhaps it's because I have a first gen PS3 that this is a very rare occurance for me. Things that might help. Make sure your PS3 HDD's file system is defragged. It's helped my PS3 immensely. This will help shorten loading times. There are instructional pages and vids all over the internet. By default, the HDDs Sony has installed in the PS3 are 5400 rpm. Upgrading to a 7200 rpm will also help shorten load times. If you can afford it, a 10,000 rpm, SSD, or HDD/SSD hybrid will really cut down load times which does include graphics loading while in a match. I need to upgrade to a 7200rpm myself. It was my understanding that ps3`s cant really benefit too much from SSD`s as they dont have the transfer speed / capability to use that extra speed a SSD would give. I bought the super slim / cheap new ps3 with the 12gb inbuilt flash memory. Looked into what HDD I would buy and at the time I read that anything above the 5k rpm HDD`s wouldn't really gain any benefits. I also read that the extra energy used, along with the extra HDD speed would create more heat.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 312	Posted - 2013.09.03 08:04:00 - [12] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: When I get this, and it's rare, it usually has to do with graphics loading in during play. Or perhaps it's because I have a first gen PS3 that this is a very rare occurance for me. Things that might help. Make sure your PS3 HDD's file system is defragged. It's helped my PS3 immensely. This will help shorten loading times. There are instructional pages and vids all over the internet. By default, the HDDs Sony has installed in the PS3 are 5400 rpm. Upgrading to a 7200 rpm will also help shorten load times. If you can afford it, a 10,000 rpm, SSD, or HDD/SSD hybrid will really cut down load times which does include graphics loading while in a match. I need to upgrade to a 7200rpm myself. It was my understanding that ps3`s cant really benefit too much from SSD`s as they dont have the transfer speed / capability to use that extra speed a SSD would give. I bought the super slim / cheap new ps3 with the 12gb inbuilt flash memory. Looked into what HDD I would buy and at the time I read that anything above the 5k rpm HDD`s wouldn't really gain any benefits. I also read that the extra energy used, along with the extra HDD speed would create more heat. 5400 to 7200 generates negligible heat increase. And the HDDs are placed away from the CPU/GPU locations anyway. At least it is on mine. I haven't opened up a newer one to look at their layout. Also there are a few players in my corp that have SSDs and their stuff apparently loads in so fast that they're on the ground and half way to the first objective, if not at the first objective, by the time my machine has loaded up and sent the server the signal that it was ready for me to spawn in.


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