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zzZaXxx
The Exemplars
Top Men.
205
   |
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
To start off I want to say that this is not a plea for compassion or anything of the sort. ItGÇÖs also not butthurt griping. Far from it. IGÇÖm simply offering one possible solution to a problem. A solution I feel could be extremely rewarding for everyone involved.
The current situation is this: EoN owns 70+% of MH and climbing and continues to absorb the cream of skilled players (as in both SP and real skill) into their ranks. We are rapidly approaching a crisis point of stagnation in PC. EoN players will have no opportunities for good fights and no interesting way to spend their ISK. The only exception would be friendly matches between alliance corps, but that doesnGÇÖt seem to me enough to satisfy anyone. Players not in EoN will have to try to find their fun and challenge in pub matches (rrrrright) or FW (maybeGǪwith team queuing and if rewards are increased) because theyGÇÖll just lose ISK and controllers in PC.
Another problem that is likely to grow out of this is boredom and despair on the part of a large number of the player base, both within EoN and without, which could rapidly cascade into the death of the game when next gen consoles come out (or before) and a critical mass of players say GÇ£Screw this! Enough is enough!GÇ¥ and get a fresh start somewhere else.
HereGÇÖs the solution I propose to EoN leadership. Institute a tier system in Molden Heath. First IGÇÖll explain how this could work. Then IGÇÖll explain how it would benefit everyone.
The tier system would divide holders of districts in Molden Heath into 3 groups: Gold, Silver, and Bronze (for lack of better names at the moment). Gold would be the realm of GÇ£elite PVPGÇ¥ where teams that can compete at the highest levels are able to provide each other with consistent good fights. Silver would be for corps that arenGÇÖt able to hack it against gold level corps but who are far from scrubs. Bronze would be for noob corps that canGÇÖt compete yet with silver but want a chance to break into the action.
First the numbers
There are 245 districts in Molden Heath. Members of each tier would have access to the districts allotted to them, and would be required not to attack lower tier districts, except under special circumstances. I think a balanced distribution of districts would put 0.6 of them in Gold, 0.3 of them in Silver, and 0.1 in Bronze. This would give Gold members 147 districts. This number affords original gold members plenty of opportunities for expansion and profit and also can accommodate entry of the occasional new member.
Silver members would compete for 74 districts, which is plenty for mid level competition, and also sufficiently less than Gold to limit the amount of wealth that can be generated in Silver.
Bronze members would be confined to the 24 districts on Oddelulf, or GÇ£Planet Fight ClubGÇ¥.
How will EoN leadership determine who belongs in each tier?
First of all, a contiguous group of 147 systems would be designated for Gold. EoN would be the founder and primary enforcer of this system, so all its member corps would automatically be in Gold. Having GÇ£wonGÇ¥ PC already, it would be only natural that the original members of the Gold tier would be limited to the corps in EoN. (To establish this they will need to conquer any remaining corps openly resisting them.) The 147 Gold districts would be divided evenly between the member corps of EoN and any corps they choose to accept as Gold members. This is to ensure that everyone starts on an even footing, allowing no advantage to any corp except the wallet they start with (inviolable) and their effectiveness in battle. More wealthy members may wish to donate to Gold corps with less ISK to further even the playing field at the start but thatGÇÖs up to the CEOs to decide.
Another contiguous group of 74 systems would be designated for Silver. Non-EoN owners of any districts in this area would be required to drop sovereignty by a particular date. Soon after, a land grab would begin at a designated time. Violators of the process would be crushed and penalized by EoN. Whichever corps end up with the districts become the original Silver members. The wheat will be quickly separated from the chaff over the next few weeks and those that belong in Silver (or Gold) will remain.
As for the Bronze tier, the 24 districts on Oddelulf would be kept vacant until one week after the Silver districts are filled. Violaters would be warned, then crushed and penalized on a second attempt. Then a second land grab would begin on Oddelulf, open to any corp/alliance that either didnGÇÖt try for Silver districts or lost them all in the first week. Owners of Oddelulf districts after the land grab would be the original Bronze members. |
zzZaXxx
The Exemplars
Top Men.
205
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
How can members of one tier break into the next?
Bronze
Any corp that has no districts would be free at any time to attack Bronze districts and thereby break into PC. Corps with no districts would also be free to attack Silver and Gold districts, but would then open themselves to attack from members of that tier for the next 2 weeks. If they attempt a second time the reprisal period would extend to one month from the attack. So inexperienced corps would have every incentive to start on Oddelulf.
Once any corporation or alliance owns more than 6 districts (25%) on Oddelulf they are automatically elevated to Silver status and are open to attack from all Silver members. In addition, Bronze members are free to break into Silver at any time by attacking Silver districts, but will then be open to attack from Silver members for 1 month. During that month they will be considered Silver and off limits to Bronze, though any districts subsequently taken from them by Silver members will be vacated within 24 hrs and open to attack by Bronze members. Bronze members or corps without districts may attack the Oddelulf districts of those recently elevated to Silver with no reprisal from higher tier corps (though of course the owners may defend their district.) Once a corp/alliance elevated to Silver loses one of its remaining Oddelulf districts it may not attempt to retake it.
Silver
Once any Silver corporation or alliance owns more than 20 districts (27%) they are automatically elevated to Gold status and are open to attack from all Gold members. Silver members can attempt to break into Gold at any time by attacking Gold districts but will then be open to attack from Gold members for 1 month. As with Bronze, during that month they will be considered Gold and off limits to Silver, though any districts subsequently taken from them by Gold members will be vacated within 24 hrs and open to attack by Silver members. Silver members that attack Bronze districts (including Oddelulf districts of those recently elevated to Silver) are open to attack from Gold members for 1 month. Silver members that lose all their districts will then be considered Bronze.
Gold
There is, of course, no limit to the number of Gold districts that a Gold member can acquire. If a Gold member loses all its districts it will be considered Silver. Once a corp/alliance gains Gold membership it is denied future membership in Bronze thereafter. Gold members that attack Silver or Bronze members must be dealt with swiftly by the combined forces of all Gold members. This principle is the foundation that everything is built on. Without its swift and strict enforcement the whole enterprise will fall to pieces in days.
How do EoN members benefit from this arrangement?
EoN members would establish, in the Gold tier, an environment in which competing corps would challenge each other to the limit of their abilities. Teamwork and performance would be honed to razor sharpness. The fights would be consistently high quality.
By instituting this, EoN leadership would also be responsible for something unprecedented in gaming history, with the potential to infuse tremendous life and fun into the game. Anyone who cares about games would stand in awe of it and gamers would flock to the unique, totally player driven, emergent content.
How would others benefit?
The Silver region would be the beginnings of the sandbox that DUST players in mid level corps have been craving. It would provide an environment full of competition, rivalry, intrigue, honing of skills and teamwork, and of course, profit. This is something that a great many players have been unable to experience up to this point, and it would be an absolute joy for them.
Oddelulf would become a training ground for new players/corps that want to be part of the PC community and start building their reputation and wealth. It would become a vital, dynamic, and very fun part of the New Player Experience.
What about elite corps that arenGÇÖt in Eon?
Some corps, such as Ancient Exiles and Nyain San (and Outer Heaven?), would feel snubbed by having to start at Silver, but this is why EoN needs to go the distance now and fully GÇ£winGÇ¥ PC, thereby giving them no argument. An alternative is for EoN to include these worthy corps in Gold from the beginning.
What about repeat violators that show no intention of respecting this arrangement?
Violation of any of the above stated rules by any corporation would result in the taking of one of its districts by same or higher tier members and transfer to a competing corp.
Corps that violate any of the rules stated above on 5 occasions will be banned from Molden Heath for 3 months and fair game for members of all tiers.
This is the framework that IGÇÖve put together for what I think would be a very rewarding system for all involved, as well as a grand experiment. I think with some fine tuning, necessary adjustments, and rock solid commitment to the rules and their strict enforcement (once the rules are clearly established), by EoN leadership, this system can be instituted without great complication.
Thanks for reading and IGÇÖm eager for your feedback!
Also please donGÇÖt full quote. I appreciate it. |
zzZaXxx
The Exemplars
Top Men.
205
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
reserved |
SoTah Pawp
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
861
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
This is not the way of New Eden - only the strong will survive.  |
Gods Architect
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
295
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
this is blasphemy this isn't how it works in most shooters or even in EVE Online. I see what you are saying but if the games expands beyond MH I can't see this system working well. |
Void Echo
Echo Galactic Industries
1000
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
when or if PC extends to beyond MH, EoN would no longer have control over anything. Sure they would still have MH but other alliances and corps would be free to take whatever land they wish without threat from EoN. but until then EoN does in fact have control over PC. |
Gods Architect
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
296
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
then fight back and win. They are humans just like the rest of us. They have limitations, if EoN controls MH it's because you let them |
zzZaXxx
The Exemplars
Top Men.
206
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 04:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gods Architect wrote:then fight back and win. They are humans just like the rest of us. They have limitations, if EoN controls MH it's because you let them
Yes, everyone has limitations, but this is a game with certain predictable mechanics which EoN players/corps have exploited to the extent that resistance is kind of futile at this point. Of course they're also successful due to their skill of course. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong but I don't see it. If you can tell me what those limitations are and how they can be exploited I'd be all ears.
Of course when and if PC is expanded beyond MH that will definitely change the landscape but that may be a long way off. |
Zatara Rought
TeamPlayers
EoN.
984
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 05:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
I've heard a few ideas of merit lately this one being among the most insightful and want the community to pitch in and help us. Once this war is finished I have determined for myself TeamPlayers best route will be to introduce whatever rules or method makes the most sense and I envision much of Molden Heath to the masses. When the war ends some of us are ready to retire until such time as this game adds content, depth, complexity, and most of all balance.
The cries of the community have been heard, and the war we wanted has been furnished. Well done. It has been a tremendous endeavor. While our bloodlust is insatiable my conscience invites me to reconcile. While plausibly sustainable, as evidenced by maintaining a 95% win/loss ratio and a flawless record today while flipping another mass terror district, I recognize that our successes will not help grow the indies into the fighting force we one day envision them becoming. We imagined the coalition would not use ringers but use this as a catapult to launch your individual careers by facilitating the teamwork PC requires, sadly (outside of every Top Men fight *tips hat*) this has not been the case. And even TeamPlayers own standards of Teamwork has decreased because of the necessity and inherent logistics of fielding 8 teams simultaneously.
As long as the community wants to fight, we will fight. Whether that's a day or a month you can't fathom our resolve. EoN will not disband. But I personally am content with fighting the good fight with peers of similar strength and relinquishing much of our land. For all the trash talk in Ancient Exiles, we love the fights win or loss and respect them for bringing everything when they play.
At the conclusion of the war our bloodlust will largely have been satisfied. I anticipate us shrinking our players back to around 35, and will continue in our quest to improve. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1276
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 05:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
tl;dr |
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Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1321
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 06:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
People at the bottom don't make the rules. |
zzZaXxx
The Exemplars
Top Men.
207
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 06:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:People at the bottom don't make the rules.
Agreed. That's why I'm appealing to the leadership at the top. |
Zatara Rought
TeamPlayers
EoN.
994
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 06:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Will be posting a thorough assessment of the OP tomorrow. Gotta catch some sleep :P |
ER-Bullitt
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
310
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 14:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:People at the bottom don't make the rules. Agreed. That's why I'm appealing to the leadership at the top.
Appealing to whom? Mavado? ROFL.. good luck with that. Before you attempt to communicate with that thing.... read his posts, learn his mentality, then when you are done saying "wtf is wrong with this kid" to yourself... go play another game. |
God Hates Lags
Red Star.
EoN.
45
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 17:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:when or if PC extends to beyond MH, EoN would no longer have control over anything. Sure they would still have MH but other alliances and corps would be free to take whatever land they wish without threat from EoN. but until then EoN does in fact have control over PC.
Yeah, CCP really needs to expand beyond Molden Heath for PC. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
1768
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 18:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Why does EoN have to govern where clans belong? I can understand if you made this a community decision but you are designating this to EoN. If I wasn't in EoN and an indie, I'm not letting another corp that bleed just like me tell me what tier corp I am, therefore...what I'm allowed to do or not do. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1074
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 18:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nah, too much like socialism. You have to earn what you get around these parts. |
Morathi III
Pro Hic Immortalis
League of Infamy
205
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 18:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:People at the bottom don't make the rules.
Thats why in real life you decide nothing |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1074
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 18:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Morathi III wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:People at the bottom don't make the rules. Thats why in real life you decide nothing
Kinda like you, right frenchie? |
Morathi III
Pro Hic Immortalis
League of Infamy
207
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 18:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
King Kobrah wrote:Morathi III wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:People at the bottom don't make the rules. Thats why in real life you decide nothing Kinda like you, right frenchie?
Agree, but with free school even at unniversity degree i think i can decide more bro |
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JW v Weingarten
No Free Pass
553
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 18:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
great idea, now go do it yourself. |
zzZaXxx
The Exemplars
Top Men.
207
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 18:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Why does EoN have to govern where clans belong? I can understand if you made this a community decision but you are designating this to EoN. If I wasn't in EoN and an indie, I'm not letting another corp that bleed just like me tell me what tier corp I am, therefore...what I'm allowed to do or not do.
Well first of all a corp/alliance that starts in Silver but really belongs in Gold will be successful in Silver and can challenge for Gold membership at any time. Such a corp would have no problem establishing itself where it belongs. The safeguards in the tier system are designed to provide room to grow for corps that aren't ready to compete at the next level yet. At the same time the system enables corps to rapidly train and improve, and then take a stab at the next tier when they feel ready.
As for it being a community decision. I don't see how a system requiring organization and strict adherence to basic principles can live more than a day without a strong central power supporting and enforcing it. And this is a response to the current reality, which is that EoN is that power in PC currently. The "community" did decide to do something. FEC was formed and made an effort but wasn't equipped for success. As it stands EoN needs to solidly back any sweeping changes of this nature for them to have a chance of success. |
gargantuise aaron
Sanguine Knights
112
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 05:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Stalin called he wants his socialism back |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1300
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 06:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
gargantuise aaron wrote:Stalin called he wants his socialism back
Stalin didn't care about socialism. All he wanted was absolute power and to be feared.
Vladimir Lenin should have went into the joke, then the joke wouldn't look disfigured. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1324
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 07:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Morathi III wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:People at the bottom don't make the rules. Thats why in real life you decide nothing
I've decided that you are French. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
4095
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 07:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:People at the bottom don't make the rules. Agreed. That's why I'm appealing to the leadership at the top.
honestly dude. too much work , nice detailed post but ur asking for the community or us to maintain this?
fightclub is already a hassle having to maintain and keep an eye on
how about ccp fix their game? |
Zatara Rought
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1003
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 07:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:zzZaXxx wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:People at the bottom don't make the rules. Agreed. That's why I'm appealing to the leadership at the top. honestly dude. too much work , nice detailed post but ur asking for the community or us to maintain this? fightclub is already a hassle having to maintain and keep an eye on how about ccp fix their game?
It's a better solution than EoN owning 80% of the board. We know EoN is cool to keep fighting the war we wanted, but we need to get the ball rolling IMO on how to proceed after we win the war. And Ideas like this are a great way to start. Honestly I myself will pay 100 million isk out of my own pocket for a convincing idea that many people find exciting that will invigorate PC and turn it into a sandbox and not what it is today.
The community heeded out calls for war. And even though they largely lost, the goal was achieved and we should be ready to move forward IMO. I want to see MH turned into an awesome game mode, however I haven't yet conceived an idea worthy of mentioning in how to do it.
0.02 isk.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
970
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 07:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
^convince CCP to make clone packs 5 mil ISK
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Zatara Rought
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1003
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 07:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:^convince CCP to make clone packs 5 mil ISK
If they did we'd just lock our districts with clone packs and make bank off the clones generated from the 2 days regen. |
zzZaXxx
The Exemplars
Top Men.
207
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 16:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:zzZaXxx wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:People at the bottom don't make the rules. Agreed. That's why I'm appealing to the leadership at the top. honestly dude. too much work , nice detailed post but ur asking for the community or us to maintain this? fightclub is already a hassle having to maintain and keep an eye on how about ccp fix their game?
Well for one thing PFC wouldn't be maintained anymore, but yes, this would require regulation. The dirty work of that regulation can be delegated however. It's enforcement that would be the main responsibility of EoN leaders. If this really gets off the ground there are certainly a few capable and trustworthy people who can share the main burden of administration. There are people who enjoy that kind of thing.
The rules are very simple and not open to interpretation. A corp either has x # districts in its tier or it doesn't. This information is available on the star map. It either attacked a higher/lower tier district or it didn't. Proof of this is easily obtained via end of match photos. These are the two sole factors that determine whether or not a corp/alliance is attackable to the next tier up.
The other important factor is aggression timers. Once a corp/alliance becomes attackable to the higher tier, a 1 month timer starts, at the end of which they are either in a new tier or they are in the same tier and no longer attackable from the next tier up.
Of course someone has to keep track of which tier each corp/alliance holding districts is in, but that's a simple matter.
Getting the system in place to begin with would be a challenging undertaking, but it would only have to be done once. If the members of Eon can agree to first fully acquire the 147 Gold districts (mostly theirs already) and then distribute them evenly between member corps and other corps they accept into Gold, the non-EoN holders of the remaining 40% of MH can easily be persuaded/forced to vacate. The only thing that remains from there to start the process is for all those remaining districts to be cleared for the Silver and Bronze land grabs.
Once the land grabs are done, the tiers will be set and the system will start working. The only thing EoN leaders need to do from that point to maintain the system is attack the districts of those that violate the rules. This kind of punitive attack will be fun in it's own way. After a number of such displays of force MH residents will know that this is real and EoN is enforcing it.
What then? Then EoN members and other elite corps can have a blast fighting each other while still rolling in ISK. Other corps/alliances can finally start trying to build their empire and train their forces in Silver. Oddelulf will be a quantum leap for the NPE.
The only administrators we need for this are a few (not many) people willing to keep track of MH activity, report proven violation of rules, and post aggression timers currently active. It would also require a simple website hub dedicated to providing information/status to the community. Again, there are people willing to do these things. This is fun for some of us. |
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