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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Top Men.
1199
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 03:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alright, just about everyone has noticed that the only real way to make ISK in DUST is to utilize freefits. It is cost-ineffective to use advanced or higher gear because there are maniacs who giggle at the prospect of destroying your stuff.
In my opinion, the mistake was marrying the payout to the cost of the equipment destroyed. This creates situations where utilizing militia and standard crapfits not only provides more payout, but denies the enemy money, because no matter how much value your actions have to the objective at hand, your rewards will be tied to how much of a cheapass the guy you ganked happens to be.
Then you have the biomass rewards. this is a payout based on how many clones killed. I am unclear if this adds to the destroyed equipment.
I believe that the way this is done is counterintuitive, and overcomplicated.
Instead I propose ISK bonuses to the base contract based on actions taken in-game. Further these bonuses should be based on the strategic value of your actions in play, not on how much ISK your opponent happened to blow on his fit.
I can run cout, assault, logi and heavy for basically free. Woohoo. I'm worth a bundle let me tell you.
Enough with the sarcasm.
The following is an example (not necessarily how it should end up) of how rewards should be given. Your kills, hacks, and logibro goodwork should net you rewards accordingly. the current standards are... weird. and they're not exactly up to par with the cost of fielding good gear.
But without further adieu, here is my example of how I would like to see rewards calculated:
Base contract payout: 70,000 ISK
Combat rewards: (destruction of neutral assets gains no ISK rewards)
Infantry Kill: 40,000 ISK Infantry Assist: 20,000 ISK Destroy Installation (enemy control only): 100,000 ISK Destroy Turret: 30,000 ISK Destroy LAV: 10,000 ISK Destroy Scout/Logi LAV: 40,000 ISK Destroy Dropship: 15,000 ISK Destroy Specialist Dropship: 50,000 ISK Destroy Militia HAV: 20,000 ISK Destroy HAV: 80,000 ISK Destroy Marauder/Enforcer: 120,000 ISK
Support actions:
Hack installation/turret: 50,000 ISK Hack Assist: 20,000 ISK
Penalties for friendly fire: (friendly fire can put you in negative ISK gain, and force you to pay fines out of pocket)
Infantry Kill: -80,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Installation: -200,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Turret: -60,000 ISK Destroy Friendly LAV: -20,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Scout/Logi LAV: -80,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Dropship: -30,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Specialist Dropship: -100,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Militia HAV: -40,000 ISK Destroy Friendly HAV: -160,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Marauder/Enforcer: -240,000 ISK
End of Match:
Warpoint Bonus: 200 ISK/Warpoint Win battle: 1.25 multiplier Lose battle: 0.75 multiplier (minimum payout 100,000 ISK)
In the example I will use we have a tank driver who goes 25/1 in his vayu enforcer. (this would represent a badass killing run) Base contract: 70,000 25 infantry kills: 1,000,000 ISK 2 turrets destroyed: 60,000 ISK 3 LAVs destroyed: 30,000 ISK 1570 warpoints: 314,000 ISK TOTAL: 1,474,000 ISK
If his team wins: 1,842,500 ISK If his team loses: 1,105,500 ISK
If he goes on this beastly killstreak and wins he ends able to afford another vayu. If he loses, well at least he doesn't come away with a net 1 million ISK loss outright. Most tankers wouldn't last this long. But the rewards make the risk of dropping the Vayu enforcer on the field worthwhile, wouldn't you say?
Again, these numbers are meant to be an example, not absolute values that should be used. And yes, I intended for friendly fire incidents resulting in loss to cost twice the standard reward. You want to go on a blueberry killing spree? You can. Now just imagine that instead of a potential million ISK payout at the end of the match you are required to pay the DED fines in excess of 1 million ISK for lost assets and damages. Didn't get one million ISK from the match? No problem, they helpfully yank it out of your wallet.
This is intended to be capable of putting a player into negative ISK gains. So if you want to murder blueberries, be prepared to be using free fits a lot.
TL;DR: make the match rewards worth the risk. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Top Men.
1200
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 03:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
These numbers are intended for FW and PC.
Screw pubmatches. cut the numbers in half for that. |
ALPHA DECRIPTER
M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
307
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 04:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Oooow I like. Someone had also suggested granting more WP for using higher tier equipment and let's not forget the all popular "WPs for destroying equipment" idea. Combine these 3 ideas and my pockets will be so fat that I could personally afford to send my corp to war every day of the week lol. Sure I'm exaggerating but still, I really love these 3 ideas.
`Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST. |
Fuzzy Jello
Goonfeet Top Men.
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 08:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Good Post. We would like a few comments from CCP on this topic. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
1822
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 08:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fuzzy Jello wrote:Good Post. We would like a few comments from CCP on this topic.
Obvious attempt to drum up support of corpmate. GOONSPIRACY SPOTTED.
But if I can be serious, for a moment... I'm fond of this idea. I'm not fond of the numbers, but I'd rather leave that to someone more economically minded than I to sift through. The concept is sound, though. The system would need to take into account the possibility of gaming, to prevent boosting from being able to make someone too much ISK.
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Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet Top Men.
30
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 08:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
I really like the premise of this, although I think you may be rewarding too much isk. Breaking even in a match is one thing, but totally paying off high end gear will only promote spam of said equipment, since everything becomes disposable.
Lets say I run one of my AV fits, that (that cost less than 50,000 isk) and end up with considerably less infantry kills than your hypothetical tanker, but snag some assists and bag a few HAVs.
Base contract: 70,000 5 infantry kills: 200,000 ISK 5 infantry assists: 100,000 ISK 2 turrets destroyed: 60,000 ISK 3 LAVs destroyed: 30,000 ISK Destroy Militia HAV: 20,000 ISK Destroy HAV: 80,000 ISK 995 warpoints: 199,000 ISK TOTAL: 759,000 ISK
If my team wins: 948,750 ISK If my team loses: 569,250 ISK
I can die 10 times and still come out ahead, even if my team loses. Cut in in half for a pub match and I'm still making tons of cash. That is quite a bit of destroyed equipment, but I've done better than this on plenty of occasions. This model makes running AV extremely lucrative, and as much as I would love to single-handedly finance our corp, the numbers need some balancing. At the very least, the rewards for killing vehicles and structures need to be toned down in relation to infantry.
Edit since Nova posted: If this WAS a conspiracy for me to finance the entire corp, you should have let me in on the scam before I blew it. |
Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet Top Men.
180
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 17:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Fuzzy Jello wrote:Good Post. We would like a few comments from CCP on this topic. Obvious attempt to drum up support of corpmate. GOONSPIRACY SPOTTED. But if I can be serious, for a moment... I'm fond of this idea. I'm not fond of the numbers, but I'd rather leave that to someone more economically minded than I to sift through. The concept is sound, though. The system would need to take into account the possibility of gaming, to prevent boosting from being able to make someone too much ISK. There are no goons. There is no conspiracy. Just sit back and relax, it'll all be over soon. |
Paradoxical Nature
Goonfeet Top Men.
39
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 20:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Fuzzy Jello wrote:Good Post. We would like a few comments from CCP on this topic. Obvious attempt to drum up support of corpmate. GOONSPIRACY SPOTTED.
What? Goonspiracy? Surely, you jest!
Anyway, I like this idea. If FW it might even tie into Loyalty Points and a (hopefully) upcoming LP store. Payments go up and down depending on your tier... maybe.
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Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
588
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 02:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bump because I like this idea..... if not necessarily goons. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
613
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 03:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:These numbers are intended for FW and PC.
Screw pubmatches. cut the numbers in half for that.
Some people like pub matches, so screw you |
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1194
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 03:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Alright, just about everyone has noticed that the only real way to make ISK in DUST is to utilize freefits. It is cost-ineffective to use advanced or higher gear because there are maniacs who giggle at the prospect of destroying your stuff.
In my opinion, the mistake was marrying the payout to the cost of the equipment destroyed. This creates situations where utilizing militia and standard crapfits not only provides more payout, but denies the enemy money, because no matter how much value your actions have to the objective at hand, your rewards will be tied to how much of a cheapass the guy you ganked happens to be.
Then you have the biomass rewards. this is a payout based on how many clones killed. I am unclear if this adds to the destroyed equipment.
I believe that the way this is done is counterintuitive, and overcomplicated.
Instead I propose ISK bonuses to the base contract based on actions taken in-game. Further these bonuses should be based on the strategic value of your actions in play, not on how much ISK your opponent happened to blow on his fit.
I can run scout, assault, logi and heavy for basically free. Woohoo. I'm worth a bundle let me tell you.
Enough with the sarcasm.
The following is an example (not necessarily how it should end up) of how rewards should be given. Your kills, hacks, and logibro goodwork should net you rewards accordingly. the current standards are... weird. and they're not exactly up to par with the cost of fielding good gear.
But without further adieu, here is my example of how I would like to see rewards calculated:
Base contract payout: 70,000 ISK
Combat rewards: (destruction of neutral assets gains no ISK rewards)
Infantry Kill: 40,000 ISK Infantry Assist: 20,000 ISK Destroy Installation (enemy control only): 100,000 ISK Destroy Turret: 30,000 ISK Destroy LAV: 10,000 ISK Destroy Scout/Logi LAV: 40,000 ISK Destroy Dropship: 15,000 ISK Destroy Specialist Dropship: 50,000 ISK Destroy Militia HAV: 20,000 ISK Destroy HAV: 80,000 ISK Destroy Marauder/Enforcer: 120,000 ISK
Support actions:
Hack installation/turret: 50,000 ISK Hack Assist: 20,000 ISK
Penalties for friendly fire: (friendly fire can put you in negative ISK gain, and force you to pay fines out of pocket)
Infantry Kill: -80,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Installation: -200,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Turret: -60,000 ISK Destroy Friendly LAV: -20,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Scout/Logi LAV: -80,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Dropship: -30,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Specialist Dropship: -100,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Militia HAV: -40,000 ISK Destroy Friendly HAV: -160,000 ISK Destroy Friendly Marauder/Enforcer: -240,000 ISK
End of Match:
Warpoint Bonus: 200 ISK/Warpoint Win battle: 1.25 multiplier Lose battle: 0.75 multiplier (minimum payout 100,000 ISK)
In the example I will use we have a tank driver who goes 25/1 in his vayu enforcer. (this would represent a badass killing run) Base contract: 70,000 25 infantry kills: 1,000,000 ISK 2 turrets destroyed: 60,000 ISK 3 LAVs destroyed: 30,000 ISK 1570 warpoints: 314,000 ISK TOTAL: 1,474,000 ISK
If his team wins: 1,842,500 ISK If his team loses: 1,105,500 ISK
If he goes on this beastly killstreak and wins he ends able to afford another vayu. If he loses, well at least he doesn't come away with a net 1 million ISK loss outright. Most tankers wouldn't last this long. But the rewards make the risk of dropping the Vayu enforcer on the field worthwhile, wouldn't you say?
Again, these numbers are meant to be an example, not absolute values that should be used. And yes, I intended for friendly fire incidents resulting in loss to cost twice the standard reward. You want to go on a blueberry killing spree? You can. Now just imagine that instead of a potential million ISK payout at the end of the match you are required to pay the DED fines in excess of 1 million ISK for lost assets and damages. Didn't get one million ISK from the match? No problem, they helpfully yank it out of your wallet.
This is intended to be capable of putting a player into negative ISK gains. So if you want to murder blueberries, be prepared to be using free fits a lot.
TL;DR: make the match rewards worth the risk.
I love this but those ISK numbers are very high. But this is so much better than the way ISK is currently earned, and people who MCC AFK won't earn a dime. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Top Men.
1218
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 08:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Isk numbers need to be a ****-ton higher than they are now. freefits and absolute ebenezer scrooge levels of dropsuit spending shouldn't be the only way to make ISK. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1196
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 12:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Isk numbers need to be a ****-ton higher than they are now. freefits and absolute ebenezer scrooge levels of dropsuit spending shouldn't be the only way to make ISK.
The counter argument to this is that in EVE players dont use the best gear all the time, and this is why ISK gains are so low because of the mentality from EVE. In a FPS the mentality is do whatever you can do to win no matter what, so no matter the price players will always use the best gear possible even if they are going bankrupt. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Top Men.
1231
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 02:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Isk numbers need to be a ****-ton higher than they are now. freefits and absolute ebenezer scrooge levels of dropsuit spending shouldn't be the only way to make ISK. The counter argument to this is that in EVE players dont use the best gear all the time, and this is why ISK gains are so low because of the mentality from EVE. In a FPS the mentality is do whatever you can do to win no matter what, so no matter the price players will always use the best gear possible even if they are going bankrupt.
Actually EVE players go cheap in SOV warfare (as much as they can) and absolutely pull out all the stops and overkill ISK farming whether it be from mining, ratting or scamming. Maximum return for minimum effort comes from things like a 400m Ishtar HAC with Tech 2 Sentries for example. |
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