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Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1133
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
So there have been quite a few fights against Eon lately and I can't help but notice that most of their districts have/had a TON of clones in them. Most likely a few battles have to be fought in order for the districts to flip, and at great cost to them. Either way, I have a general question to anyone in PC or skirmish battles...
How do you fight the battles where you are outnumbered in clones?
My initial thought is to force your enemy to play defensively...
Especially when you have what seems to be the specialty of what I observed with Team Players (Eon) last night, which was kinkat assaults with sledge-heavies zerging at objectives. I didn't see very much logistics support, but as a logi, I was often stuck trudging from a far off deployment location due to my teams' lack of uplinks. Equipment spam made making sense of the minimap and detecting the zergswarm difficult, even if you got a scan off.
But theoretically, the weakness of a shotgun/rifle and fast shield squad + heavy support would be fluxes + MD or anything that is talented at range. Sadly, CQC maps have a hard time really capitalizing on this weakness. The best you could probably do would be counter with a more armor based team and keep your suicide-flux grenades up. What made this composition even more difficult was the hit detection of things running/strafing at 7+ m/s.
But I digress, I imagine if you forced a team like this into a defensive position by hacking and then withdrawing to a more strategic location, and then mining the access route, I think this would be really effective. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
748
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Blobing is pretty effective and hard to combat. I have no idea how to beat a team that sticks with each other and can hold there own in a gun fight, let alone kick ass. |
Nestil
Seraphim Auxiliaries
23
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Posted - 2013.08.21 13:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!! |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1133
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm thinking that remote explosives are underated. I'm thinking about experimenting with a sort of 'combat engineer' logi with 3 explosives in the lows, or 2 and a hive. I'll probably test this out in some pub matches tonight.
The blob itself is pretty predictable, and their weakness is that they must close the gap, and often through chokepoints. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
3240
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hmm, maybe using a dropship as a fast deployment vehicle, back hack objective as the Zerg goes at the objective you hold, then mining as much as the area as possible with RE's and proxy's, before using the dropship to pull back to a safer area, get 2 squads doing that while the other keeps the Zerg occupied and you would force the enemy to either split up or be constantly running around the map. Alternatively you could just use a LAV, yeah that might work out better. |
Mamertine Son
R.E.B.E.L.S
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Blobing is pretty effective and hard to combat. I have no idea how to beat a team that sticks with each other and can hold there own in a gun fight, let alone kick ass.
Yeah it really sucks bumping up against a wall of heavies but that's where grenades and MD's should theoretically shine.
Splash damage is the thing that has been making armies avoid bunching for centuries now. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
813
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
That's where SCOUTS That play their role come in. ------------------------------> zerg <----------------------------- scout
Hit and run tactics breaks up the blob to some degree. and before some one says it doesn't work. I've FLANKED OBJECTIVES ON EVERY CORP. IMPS, SVER, that filipino corp. What ever the case may be, they need more than two to hold that objective from me. so do the math.
Now will I hold that objective once they bring in 3 or 4 guys? HA! no. But it should take at min ONE GUY to cap. **** or at least two.
After match starts I disappear to them, and follow my teams chat as to where most of them are. or I pop up the map. Where all the fighting is happening? No, I won't be there. .....tho you HAV drivers know where I am, when I jump up on your tank with my proto AV.
*arrogant..*
Confident. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
3240
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
From a weapons view flux+MD sounds like it should be the most effective counter, splash radius means hit detection should be less of an issue, and the MD is a counter group weapon, mix in some RE's on a chokepoint and you should cause some serious damage. |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1133
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:That's where SCOUTS That play their role come in. ------------------------------> zerg <----------------------------- scout Hit and run tactics breaks up the blob to some degree. and before some one says it doesn't work. I've FLANKED OBJECTIVES ON EVERY CORP. IMPS, SVER, that filipino corp. What ever the case may be, they need more than two to hold that objective from me. so do the math. Now will I hold that objective once they bring in 3 or 4 guys? HA! no. But it should take at min ONE GUY to cap. **** or at least two. After match starts I disappear to them, and follow my teams chat as to where most of them are. or I pop up the map. Where all the fighting is happening? No, I won't be there. .....tho you HAV drivers know where I am, when I jump up on your tank with my proto AV. *arrogant..* Confident.
I like that. I think the minmatar logi is geared well to counter the zerg too. With its hacking superiority, all of its equipment slots, and its speed it seems the ideal setup. Also, if you are often sneaking up on the outside kind of 'interception/anti-infantry HAVs' that cut objectives off from one another, scouts tossing AV grenades would work well. They'd force the HAVs to need additional members inside taking valuable players out of the main combat squads. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
813
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
I also don't understand this. Strong team corps ZERG. they always do. (all japanes corps do, weak or strong) And do all of them run on foot? NO. So How is it, that teams don't prepare for this? As soon as match starts, you should have at least 3 proto av dedicated guys up front. |
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Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1133
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:I also don't understand this. Strong team corps ZERG. they always do. (all japanes corps do, weak or strong) And do all of them run on foot? NO. So How is it, that teams don't prepare for this? As soon as match starts, you should have at least 3 proto av dedicated guys up front.
I agree, a month or so ago, I learned that a good starter fit was my "counter rush" fit with packed AV grenades, nanohive, proximity mines, remote explosive, and a swarm launcher. This was mainly for pub matches as I don't have tons of PC experience yet, but I think the trouble with this is getting a LOS advantage.
Then also, if you don't take out their vehicle rush, then you have to mitigate the problem of having 3 dedicated AV on the front line.
This COULD be where commandos shine...? Having just a little more, like an extra equipment or grenade slot might do the trick for them though. But being able to deploy with an AV weapon AND a light infantry weapon would be nice.
Oh yeah, and I'm anxious to see how contact grenades start to play out with the coming patch if they end up being sticky. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
622
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 14:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:So there have been quite a few fights against Eon lately and I can't help but notice that most of their districts have/had a TON of clones in them. Most likely a few battles have to be fought in order for the districts to flip, and at great cost to them, but mostly to their attackers. Either way, I have a general question to anyone in PC or skirmish battles...
How do you fight the battles where you are outnumbered in clones? Also, is there a valid strategy for countering players with a better gun game... Because lets face it, a lot of Eon are some of the best AR users. However rifleman tactics can only go so far...
My initial thought is to force your enemy to play defensively...
Especially when you have what seems to be the specialty of what I observed with Team Players (Eon) last night, which was kinkat assaults with sledge-heavies zerging at objectives. I didn't see very much logistics support, but as a logi, I was often stuck trudging from a far off deployment location due to my teams' lack of uplinks. Equipment spam made making sense of the minimap and detecting the zergswarm difficult, even if you got a scan off.
But theoretically, the weakness of a shotgun/rifle and fast shield squad + heavy support would be fluxes + MD or anything that is talented at range. Sadly, CQC maps have a hard time really capitalizing on this weakness. The best you could probably do would be counter with a more armor based team and keep your suicide-flux grenades up. What made this composition even more difficult was the hit detection of things running/strafing at 7+ m/s.
But I digress, I imagine if you forced a team like this into a defensive position by hacking and then withdrawing to a more strategic location, and then mining the access route, I think this would be really effective. it's 16 v 16, this isn't like EVE where people actually can use numbers...
just get 50 great players who are on often and you can hod 1-10 districts. |
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